Collapse of digital camera sales is accelerating

jsrockit said:
But one is a consumer goods company with products that are ubiquitous, and the other is a luxury store with niche products.
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As always, context is pretty important. I live on Mexico, an iPhone current price is around 18k pesos, about $1000.00 dlls at current exchange rate. I know things are different on USA, but in Mexico, an iPhone is definetly a luxury item.
 
jsrockit said:
But one is a consumer goods company with products that are ubiquitous, and the other is a luxury store with niche products.
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John,

Ubiquitous yes, but are not Iphones a premium product that are also premium priced? Are there not price premiums on other Apple products like IPADS over other competitive products? Initially the Iwatch was considered a premium product because it was a smartwatch, but now it is not.

Anyways luxury products generally command premiums on the pricing. It kinda gets blurry, but I'm on the side that Apple is a luxury product because there are many less expensive alternatives.

Then there is fashion and status...

Cal
 
mpaniagua said:
Leica and Apple share this common trait. They are symbols of fashion and status. Nothing wrong with it, just a fact.
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Interesting how similar but different the marketing of luxury, status and fashion blend into perceived value happening at these levels in one very big company and a very small company.

Cal
 
The comment on Apple's status in different countries is fair, but in the US the iPhone is certainly not a status symbol or even a premium product. They are not priced higher than similar products in its category (i.e. Samsung). If there is a premium in Apple products, it's not much in the iPhone / iPad category. They are way too common these days, in the US, to be considered like Leica. They even give away certain models at this point (with a plan).
 
jsrockit said:
The comment on Apple's status in different countries is fair, but in the US the iPhone is certainly not a status symbol or even a premium product. They are not priced higher than similar products in its category (i.e. Samsung). If there is a premium in Apple products, it's not much in the iPhone / iPad category. They are way too common these days, in the US, to be considered like Leica. They even give away certain models at this point (with a plan).
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John,

LV bags can be seen all around the city, but Louie bags are still luxury items.

I do think Apple products though association in the arts with creatives have a certain association that adds to their branding that distinguishes them above other products. By market cap Apple is a bigger company than Exxon Moble because of its branding.

I think you are discounting market share too much. Even if you limit the comparision to just cell phones Samsung has a much smaller market share, and Apple is the 800 pound gorilla.

Let's say the smart phones are equivelents, why are so many more Iphones sold, and even if the premium is small, modest, or even non-existent, one must ask why the masses are willing to pay more or in such quantity? I contend that due to an association with luxury, status and fashion that Iphone buyers are willing to pay extra for perceived value, and by definition this implies luxury branding, otherwise why would consumers pay more? As I remember at the Verizon store the Iphone was the most expensive option every time she renewed or updated her plan.

If we talk about exclusivity then Leica clearly is a good example of a nitch player that has a boutique status, but I guess I hold exclusivity different from luxury. The confusion here is that this is a different business model using luxury to demand high price premiums.

Anyways I think we are kinda on the same page or not so different to really argue.

Cal
 
jsrockit said:
Cal,

Can a mainstream product be luxurious i.e. extravagant?
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John,

Perhaps it can be argued both ways.

I gave the Louie bag as a mass example, but then again if you count exclusivity then a Louie bag becomes rather pedestrian and is similar to perhaps an Iphone. In one way the LV bags can be seen as overpriced because there are too many of them.

Anyways my cell phone (flip-phone) that my gal pays for I think cost $29.00 on her plan. I don't see many of these on the street, in the wild, and in fact people laugh at my phone when they see it.

Anyways my cheap phone seems to be rather exclusive and not main stream, but by no means is it a luxury phone. It still looks like the flip-phones from about 20 years ago when cell phones began as the rage. LOL.

Cal
 
mpaniagua said:
Leica is the Apple of the camera industry.
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I don't agree. Apple is a company for the masses, almost everyone can afford Apple items and most people have Apple products in their pocket or at home. It's for the masses. Leica products, on the other hand, are elusive to most buyers and remain luxury items. If you go to a Leica boutique, how may items can most people afford talking home with them?

Plus, all mobile Apple products are contents consumption products (i.e., you use content created by someone else, e.g. a game, you look at web sites, you read news, you listen to music someone else has created, etc), whereas Leica is a contents creation company (i.e., you create products like pictures). Two very different things.

I don't see any familiarity between the two companies at all -- except that they have great product designs and user interfaces.
 
Huss said:
The cameras on the latest smart phones are better than most digital P&S cameras from 10 years ago. Forget going back 50 years...
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You are right about the superiority of smart phone cameras. Until last spring I always packed a Nikon DSLR during business trips. Not any more........now I use the smart phone camera or take an M3 and plenty of Delta 100 or HP5!!
 
giganova said:
I don't agree. Apple is a company for the masses, almost everyone can afford Apple items and most people have Apple products in their pocket or at home. It's for the masses. Leica products, on the other hand, are elusive to most buyers and remain luxury items. If you go to a Leica boutique, how may items can most people afford talking home with them?

Plus, all mobile Apple products are contents consumption products (i.e., you use content created by someone else, e.g. a game, you look at web sites, you read news, you listen to music someone else has created, etc), whereas Leica is a contents creation company (i.e., you create products like pictures). Two very different things.

I don't see any familiarity between the two companies at all -- except that they have great product designs and user interfaces.
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G,

I see your points.

Apple products do get consumed and replaced. Meanwhile a Leica product remains a luxury product even on the used market and in some cases even become collectible.

If we think of a saturated mass market where sales boom and taper off, perhaps the scale of the smaller business might be a more stable market for Leica.

Cal
 
Apple and Leica.....mostly different products, different time they started, different philosophy. With Apple I can make pretty darn good photos with either my iPad mini or iPhone. Then send them out immediately. With some products they do overlap.

Leica started as a lifetime investment. A mechanical device built to last. From observations I read here and other spots, with Leica digital, seems like that's another story.

Here is a photo I have on Facebook of my 1936 Barnack and it works great:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...837.1073741824.100006103561396&type=3&theater

Apple, because of market served, don't think so.

Here is a photo of my M4 made with my iPad mini:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...561396.-2207520000.1470860390.&type=3&theater
 
giganova said:
I don't agree. Apple is a company for the masses, almost everyone can afford Apple items and most people have Apple products in their pocket or at home. It's for the masses. Leica products, on the other hand, are elusive to most buyers and remain luxury items. If you go to a Leica boutique, how may items can most people afford talking home with them?

Plus, all mobile Apple products are contents consumption products (i.e., you use content created by someone else, e.g. a game, you look at web sites, you read news, you listen to music someone else has created, etc), whereas Leica is a contents creation company (i.e., you create products like pictures). Two very different things.

I don't see any familiarity between the two companies at all -- except that they have great product designs and user interfaces.
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Like I said on my of my post, context matters. I was talking about the user experience :).
 
Calzone said:
I gave the Louie bag as a mass example, but then again if you count exclusivity then a Louie bag becomes rather pedestrian and is similar to perhaps an Iphone. In one way the LV bags can be seen as overpriced because there are too many of them.
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Are we really talking about a $2000 bag (I believe this was how much yours was) as pedestrian? I doubt most of the US would agree. Let's remember that there are fakes all over the place too.
 
jsrockit said:
Are we really talking about a $2000 bag (I believe this was how much yours was) as pedestrian? I doubt most of the US would agree. Let's remember that there are fakes all over the place too.
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John,

Granted there are mucho fakes, but even if you remove all the knock-offs the amount of real Louie bags is still great and at this point is a mass market like an Iphone.

It does seem though my LV man-bag remains rather rare. I have not seen another one "in the wild." Also know that I think I have gotten my $2.4K worth of use. The bag has a very cool patina of wear, some of the stitching has come loose on the strap, and I wore a hole on the top where it is creased. You wouldn't know that it was a luxury bag, and now it is just a beat-up old bag.

Also know that my fashion blogger gal owns two Louie's, but they are both limited editions.

Cal
 
So true about the quality of phone cameras. The dedicated digital cameras are so overpriced and loaded down with unneeded features that they have effectively killed their own market. People just want to take snapshots.
 
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