David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
The trouble with most of these suggestions is that you can't buy most of them brand new in a box, except the CV ones. So searching for a good on will involve time and a lot of luck or else digging deep in your pocket.
Experience tells me you can get stung very easily and expensively when chasing after a Summar or Summitar; although it's still worth doing as good ones are very pleasant lenses. And I, for one, get a lot of pleasure out of using a period outfit that's correct as though it had been bought as an outfit when new, 75 or 80 years ago.
Having said that I'd say that the collapsible Leica Elmar 50mm f/2·8 lens would be the best to chase after as they are the same vintage as a lot of M2's and M3's and are not the dearest lens to buy. They probably offer more for your money because (horror) they are not the top of the range and are overshadowed. Also, there's not so many problems when getting them checked and, if needed, they can be sorted out fairly simply and cheaply. Plus they have fairly modern glass and coatings. And the lens hoods and caps aren't that rare.
Regards, David
PS And if you do get a Summar and/or Summitar you'll then start longing for a model II or III or IIIc etc to go with it. So be warned that you're nearly on the brink of a GAS attack.
The trouble with most of these suggestions is that you can't buy most of them brand new in a box, except the CV ones. So searching for a good on will involve time and a lot of luck or else digging deep in your pocket.
Experience tells me you can get stung very easily and expensively when chasing after a Summar or Summitar; although it's still worth doing as good ones are very pleasant lenses. And I, for one, get a lot of pleasure out of using a period outfit that's correct as though it had been bought as an outfit when new, 75 or 80 years ago.
Having said that I'd say that the collapsible Leica Elmar 50mm f/2·8 lens would be the best to chase after as they are the same vintage as a lot of M2's and M3's and are not the dearest lens to buy. They probably offer more for your money because (horror) they are not the top of the range and are overshadowed. Also, there's not so many problems when getting them checked and, if needed, they can be sorted out fairly simply and cheaply. Plus they have fairly modern glass and coatings. And the lens hoods and caps aren't that rare.
Regards, David
PS And if you do get a Summar and/or Summitar you'll then start longing for a model II or III or IIIc etc to go with it. So be warned that you're nearly on the brink of a GAS attack.
zauhar
Veteran
Thanks for the advice!
David - the Elmars I find are very costly, but I will look some more. You are right, I don't want to throw money away. There is a cheap Summar on ebay that looks completely fogged!
Vics - the 35 is a good idea, but again the cost is really out of my range for the moment.
Bingley - the Heliar lens looks good, I may consider it.
I will also consider getting something directly from Youxin Ye, as I will have some confidence whatever lens I find is in decent shape.
Randy
David - the Elmars I find are very costly, but I will look some more. You are right, I don't want to throw money away. There is a cheap Summar on ebay that looks completely fogged!
Vics - the 35 is a good idea, but again the cost is really out of my range for the moment.
Bingley - the Heliar lens looks good, I may consider it.
I will also consider getting something directly from Youxin Ye, as I will have some confidence whatever lens I find is in decent shape.
Randy
Spicy
Well-known
I'd sell you my Elmar 2.8 if I were back Stateside. Got it since it was collapsible and I was looking for a pocketable camera, since the elmar 3.5s are roughly twice as expensive as the 2.8s here (go figure). I got an Industar-22 50 3.5 collapsible when I was back home for thanksgiving, and have been using that since. If you're looking for a pocketable camera, it's a tough lens to beat (the I-22). Just make sure you get one from Fedka -- Yuri will handpick a good one for you. The quality control is questionable, but the good ones will compete with the Elmar 3.5 without too much trouble.
IMO a collapsible 2.0 is not really all that more pocketable than a fixed lens (maybe slighly, but they're still quite heavy -- depends on what kind of pockets you're talking about).
IMO a collapsible 2.0 is not really all that more pocketable than a fixed lens (maybe slighly, but they're still quite heavy -- depends on what kind of pockets you're talking about).
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Oddball suggestion, for completeness: Sonnar 5cm/2 for Contax in an Amedeo adapter.
I have this lens on my Contax and I can't say that the collapsible mount makes much of a difference. It travels only about 1cm from extended to collapsed. I have a vented hood virtually glued to it so pocketable it isn't -- but then the weight of the Contax doesn't make this practical, anyway.
I have this lens on my Contax and I can't say that the collapsible mount makes much of a difference. It travels only about 1cm from extended to collapsed. I have a vented hood virtually glued to it so pocketable it isn't -- but then the weight of the Contax doesn't make this practical, anyway.
zauhar
Veteran
Guys, regarding the "pocketable" issue - my sense is that the collapsed lens on summar/summarit would extend about as far as the SA 21/4 I have - is that reasonable?
Maybe I need to take a look at one "in person" and get a better idea.
I like the suggestions for the Russian lens - clearly I can't go wrong on the price.
Randy
Randy
Maybe I need to take a look at one "in person" and get a better idea.
I like the suggestions for the Russian lens - clearly I can't go wrong on the price.
Randy
Randy
sanmich
Veteran
Randy,
About pocketability:
first, be careful about the difference between the f/2 SummITAR, and the f/1.5 SummARIT. Two dfferent beasts..
so that's why I ended selling my summitar:
1- it was less sharp than my collapsible summicron.
2- It sports an annoying thread, and if you need/ want a filter, you need either find original, non coated filters, or an expensive adapter to 39mm, that in itself, is thick as a filter. Once you stack the adapter and a filter, the lens is pretty long, even collapsed.
mdarnton
Well-known
I have had two collapsible Summicrons and two Summitars. Closed down a ways they were similar, but wide open the Summicrons were much better, especially around the edges. The Summicrons were my favorite 50s ever, the Summitars somewhere near the bottom. Also, the Summitar doesn't have click stops.
The collapsible Summicron has a creamy rendition that your later one doesn't (I had one of those, too, and would rate it as totally neutral). I prefer the collapsible, but not everyone would.
Summicron, close to wide open (click on the links, and you can find larger versions through Flickr's menu):
Blythe by Michael Darnton, on Flickr
Jim, in smoke by Michael Darnton, on Flickr
The collapsible Summicron has a creamy rendition that your later one doesn't (I had one of those, too, and would rate it as totally neutral). I prefer the collapsible, but not everyone would.
Summicron, close to wide open (click on the links, and you can find larger versions through Flickr's menu):
Blythe by Michael Darnton, on Flickr
Jim, in smoke by Michael Darnton, on Flickr
zauhar
Veteran
Michael, that is helpful. I would want a filter on the lens, since I don't use a lens cap.
Michael (Darnton) those are nice shots, and I like that rendition (which I think is similar to the DR summicron)
Question again: How far does the collapsible summicron stick out when collapsed? If it is similar to my 21mm SA, then I think it is much more pocketable than with the DR Summicron (which sticks way out).
Thanks!
Randy
Michael (Darnton) those are nice shots, and I like that rendition (which I think is similar to the DR summicron)
Question again: How far does the collapsible summicron stick out when collapsed? If it is similar to my 21mm SA, then I think it is much more pocketable than with the DR Summicron (which sticks way out).
Thanks!
Randy
mdarnton
Well-known
It's been a while, but I remember about 16-18mm. It was enough that I could comfortably hang my M3 on my arm under a suit without a lump, for instance, and in the winter, I always had it under my arm with any jacket I chose to wear. I used a cap all the time, no filter. The filter is going to add something, unfortunately.
zauhar
Veteran
Wanted to thank you guys again, and add a coda -
After digesting your collective wisdom, I settled on getting a Summar or Summitar (Summicron was a logical choice, but since I already have one in M mount I decided I should go for something different)
I missed a good deal on a Summar (thanks Johan), because the tip came while I was teaching late, and by the time I looked it was already gone. ;-(
SO I settled on a later version Summitar from KEH, a "safe" choice. From eBay I found a summitar filter, and an M adapter so I can use it on my M3.
Oh - and while perusing the LTM stuff on eBay, I saw a great deal on a Leica IIIf from Youxin, and could not pass it up. I guess I am having a slight bought with GAS.
The IIIf already arrived, and I am already in love with it. I literally cannot leave it alone. Unfortunately, I have only one screwmount lens, a Canon 50/1.4 that blocks much of the viewfinder. I guess I have to wait for the Summitar to really try it out.
I am so excited.
Randy
After digesting your collective wisdom, I settled on getting a Summar or Summitar (Summicron was a logical choice, but since I already have one in M mount I decided I should go for something different)
I missed a good deal on a Summar (thanks Johan), because the tip came while I was teaching late, and by the time I looked it was already gone. ;-(
SO I settled on a later version Summitar from KEH, a "safe" choice. From eBay I found a summitar filter, and an M adapter so I can use it on my M3.
Oh - and while perusing the LTM stuff on eBay, I saw a great deal on a Leica IIIf from Youxin, and could not pass it up. I guess I am having a slight bought with GAS.
The IIIf already arrived, and I am already in love with it. I literally cannot leave it alone. Unfortunately, I have only one screwmount lens, a Canon 50/1.4 that blocks much of the viewfinder. I guess I have to wait for the Summitar to really try it out.
I am so excited.
Randy
sanmich
Veteran
Randy
you may want to try an external viewfinder.
I have shot a IIIf+canon 1.4 with a CV finder, and it's a real joy.
n5jrn
Well-known
That's who I got my very nice Summitar and IIIf RDST from. And odds are you'll save money by doing that; I have found eBay prices to generally be higher than buying from dealers in recent years.
BobYIL
Well-known
Randy, I used all 50mm Summicron versions -still have four of them- and the collapsible one has the best bokeh of them all, the best rendition at wider apertures as far as the classical look is concerned. It was the favorite lens of HCB till he retired inspite of the rigid, DR and and the third versions availability in his time. I have two versions of the Summitars too, one is the former 10-blade and the latter spherical-6 blade types. The Summitars are sharp at center, fall rapidly toward the edges and exhibit a weird, swirly bokeh that a lot of users do not like.
If you like to shoot also wide open then go with the Summicron (Michael Darnton's comments are right on!), avoid the first production runs with radioactive glass, yellowish cast may ruin your color shots. Check the front surface especially as these old glasses used to scratch while even cleaning too... also haze; very often.
For color or digital: Your DR is better... keep it under all circumstances.
And another alternative for compactness: The Summicron-C 40/2 (use the outer frames of your M3). Costs about the same as the collapsible these days, something in between the 35 and 50, sharp & a little glowing wide open, sharp like the 50mm Summicrons at other apertures, use it for color as well as digital (on the Nex-5N it is my normal lens, it is as sharp as the Summicron 35 V1 or the 35 Asph., even in the corners and it is smaller than either of them. )
If you like to shoot also wide open then go with the Summicron (Michael Darnton's comments are right on!), avoid the first production runs with radioactive glass, yellowish cast may ruin your color shots. Check the front surface especially as these old glasses used to scratch while even cleaning too... also haze; very often.
For color or digital: Your DR is better... keep it under all circumstances.
And another alternative for compactness: The Summicron-C 40/2 (use the outer frames of your M3). Costs about the same as the collapsible these days, something in between the 35 and 50, sharp & a little glowing wide open, sharp like the 50mm Summicrons at other apertures, use it for color as well as digital (on the Nex-5N it is my normal lens, it is as sharp as the Summicron 35 V1 or the 35 Asph., even in the corners and it is smaller than either of them. )
zauhar
Veteran
BobYIL, thanks for that advice - in particular I had not thought about a 40mm.
Michael, are you using a universal finder or dedicated 50mm ?
Randy
Michael, are you using a universal finder or dedicated 50mm ?
Randy
sanmich
Veteran
Randy
I'm using a brightline dedicated finder
The universal finder is big, adds a lot of bulk to an otherwise slim camera and gives a tunnel vision (SLR style, no frames floating on a larger image).
For all those reasons I really didn't like it.
The BL finder is great, tiny, IIRC, it's 1:1, and you can compose just as with an M, when you can see outside the frame.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
No one seems to have posted any figures so here are some, all flange to front of lens and without a lens cap but collapsed (naughty).
26½ mm the Summitar,
24mm the Summar,
15mm the Industar - 22,
just over 10mm the FED - 10 and
just under 10mm the Elmar.
Of course, all those are screw thread lenses. So add 1 mm for the M adapter.
On my M2 I mainly use the f/2.8 collapsible and for good measure:
21mm the Elmar f/2.8 M series.
The one I've not got is the collapsible Summicron, sorry.
Add a lens cap to those lenses and the result will be anything from 1½mm to 5mm extra. So pick the lens cap carefully. As Wolves says the generic ones are cheap and, imo, slim. The fattest ones are the original black Bakelite ones on the pre-war Leicas.
Regards, David
No one seems to have posted any figures so here are some, all flange to front of lens and without a lens cap but collapsed (naughty).
26½ mm the Summitar,
24mm the Summar,
15mm the Industar - 22,
just over 10mm the FED - 10 and
just under 10mm the Elmar.
Of course, all those are screw thread lenses. So add 1 mm for the M adapter.
On my M2 I mainly use the f/2.8 collapsible and for good measure:
21mm the Elmar f/2.8 M series.
The one I've not got is the collapsible Summicron, sorry.
Add a lens cap to those lenses and the result will be anything from 1½mm to 5mm extra. So pick the lens cap carefully. As Wolves says the generic ones are cheap and, imo, slim. The fattest ones are the original black Bakelite ones on the pre-war Leicas.
Regards, David