Collapsible f2 Sonnar with “T” coating..??

[trischiefspiegler]

Hello. I'm on the verge of purchasing a Contax III body SN# c134XX. From what I have read on the web the “c” means the body was made in 1939, as “c” is the alphabet’s third letter indicating the third year of production (after the camera’s introduction in 1936). Is this true?
The body comes with an f2 50mm Sonnar collapsible lens. Here’s the puzzle. From tables published here and elsewhere its SN# 19103XX would date this lens about 1936. But it also sports the big red “T” and has a purple coating which looks authentic. I’ve read that only the f1.5 pre-war version of the this lens came with coatings. Could this be a special run for the military or did the factory custom coat some lenses upon special request? The barrel and mount are chrome-over-brass so I doubt it is a Soviet fake. I’ve heard the Soviets never produced collapsibles themselves although they could make up the barrels from spare parts with new coated glass. I guess so could the newly reconstituted post-war Zeiss Jena from new parts and old ones hidden and not taken to Kiev. That might explain the coating but why choose a pre-war SN#? Another explanation may be that this is just a pre-war lens later re-built and coated by old Zeiss or by post-war CZJ for some well-placed party or Politburo member or for a friend of the company directorship. The factory would then make a replacement front ring engraved with the added “T”.
Any thoughts? Has anyone out there seen a coated “T” collapsible Sonnar?

 

[wlewisiii]

I have one from 1942. Coating was invented, IIRC, in 1936 with mostly military production at first, but not only... and that's where the fun is, isn't it? 😱

If you want to verify your lens serial, ask the good folks on the ZICG http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZICG/ for a date. I was surprised when my $30 lens turned out to have a red T and a pre-1945 date as well, but there were batches, especially for sale in Sweeden to generate hard currency to buy iron & other ores with.

It probably does not have anything to do with postwar FSU production. 😀

Shoot it & post the results, too!

William

 

[raid]

I let Brian Sweeney hand pick my uncoated 5cm 1.5 for me. He knows the differences very well between the different Sonnar lenses. My example is optically pristine.

Welcome to the RFF. Start budgeting ...

 

[dexdog]

Judging by the serial number on your lens, it is 1930's manufacture. Also, judged from the purple color of the coating, you may be correct that the lens was subject to an aftermarket coating following WW2. The older zeiss coatings tend to be either amber or pale blue, not purple

I have a coated CZJ 50/2 collapsible that dates to 1940 according to the book by Theile. It is mostly chromed brass, but the aperture ring is aluminum, and the base of the lens appears to be steel.

 

[furcafe]

As to the 2nd part of your post, I would concur w/what dexdog & wlewisiii wrote. Anything is possible, but I would check w/the good folks on the ZICG.

As to the 1st part, I believe the letters in the serial #s on bodies simply stood for blocks of production, not for particular years. On his Cameraquest article on the Contax II & III, Stephen Gandy wrote:

When was your Contax II or III made ?? According to the excellent "benchmarks" book by Foto Saga in France, ISBN 2-906840-06-8, the first letter before the serial number denotes a block of 99,999 serial numbers -- not all of which were always issued: Z 1935/6, A 1936, B 1936, C 1936/7, D 1937, E 1937, F 1937/8, G 1938, J 1938/9, K 1939, L 1939, M 1940/42, N 1941/3. Keep in mind the code was also used for other Zeiss cameras, so these codes do not indicate total Contax production.

Hello. I'm on the verge of purchasing a Contax III body SN# c134XX. From what I have read on the web the “c” means the body was made in 1939, as “c” is the alphabet’s third letter indicating the third year of production (after the camera’s introduction in 1936). Is this true?
The body comes with an f2 50mm Sonnar collapsible lens. Here’s the puzzle. From tables published here and elsewhere its SN# 19103XX would date this lens about 1936. But it also sports the big red “T” and has a purple coating which looks authentic. I’ve read that only the f1.5 pre-war version of the this lens came with coatings. Could this be a special run for the military or did the factory custom coat some lenses upon special request? The barrel and mount are chrome-over-brass so I doubt it is a Soviet fake. I’ve heard the Soviets never produced collapsibles themselves although they could make up the barrels from spare parts with new coated glass. I guess so could the newly reconstituted post-war Zeiss Jena from new parts and old ones hidden and not taken to Kiev. That might explain the coating but why choose a pre-war SN#? Another explanation may be that this is just a pre-war lens later re-built and coated by old Zeiss or by post-war CZJ for some well-placed party or Politburo member or for a friend of the company directorship. The factory would then make a replacement front ring engraved with the added “T”.
Any thoughts? Has anyone out there seen a coated “T” collapsible Sonnar?

 

[trischiefspiegler]

Thank you. Previlaged to be in your company.

Thank you. Previlaged to be in your company.

Thanks for the information you all. Furcafe. I guess then the serial number of the body corresponds well with that of the lens in terms of the date of manufacture. Most likely they were sold as a pair. Dex, the aftermarket coating theory sounds more plausible. Here in Chicago we have the occasional camera show where those sellers not gone exclusively ebay come to hawk their wares. It would be good then to compare the coating of this lens against a coated pre-war Sonnar f 1.5 if one shows up for sale. I've hear tell that Zeiss did not start to use the red "T" untill after the War. Is this true?

raid and wlewisiii. I will have a look at ZICG. I see Brian Sweeney has a good rep around here. I will try to track him down, too.

Yes, speculating on the history of our toys is another facet of this obsession. tri

 

[raid]

I have a Zeiss 5cm 2.0 with modified LTM that may or may not have been converted by Zeiss [according to Marc Small at the Zeiss Historic Society]. It gives a warm color hue with color film, so maybe it has an amber coating, but I need to check this out again. Its serial number sugegsts that it was one of a batch of 200 lenses that were made for Sweden. The optics are from a Contaflex 35mm camera! Now isn't the history of lenses rather interesting.


I also have such a lens in Contax mount. The 5cm 1.5 is either uncoated [I have such a lens] or you may find it coated [if rigid] or as an Opton with coating.
Brian converted a 1.5 Sonnar to LTM. The question is whether a Brian Sweeney converted lens is as valuable as a lens converted sometime in the past by some person unknown to us.