michalurban
Lapeno Enriquez
Hi,
Im thinking about buying a micro 4/3 camera (something like E-P1) as I really like the small size of those.
I also like my Industar-22 lens on my Fed-2 - so I was curious if its compatible with the m4/3 system using some kind of reduction ring. Now I know its possible, but the lens isnt totally collapsible into the body AND one must count with the crop factor - therefore 50mm I-22 equals 100mm on the m4/3. I was courious, is there some collapsible lens about 20mm with similar construction the I-22 has, preferably with the ability to collapse fully into the Pens body ... or should I rather go with the 17mm pancake lens?
Thanks!
Im thinking about buying a micro 4/3 camera (something like E-P1) as I really like the small size of those.
I also like my Industar-22 lens on my Fed-2 - so I was curious if its compatible with the m4/3 system using some kind of reduction ring. Now I know its possible, but the lens isnt totally collapsible into the body AND one must count with the crop factor - therefore 50mm I-22 equals 100mm on the m4/3. I was courious, is there some collapsible lens about 20mm with similar construction the I-22 has, preferably with the ability to collapse fully into the Pens body ... or should I rather go with the 17mm pancake lens?
Thanks!
MaxElmar
Well-known
The Panasonic 14/2.5 is quite small, a fine lens, and the FL is a bit more suited to general use on the m43 format. To me, the 14 on 3:4 seems quite different than 28mm on 2:3 - it feels much more "general purpose" than "wide angle."
The 20/1.7 pancake is temporarily unavailable and trading for ridiculous prices on ebay - like 140% of full retail new for a used example!
The c-mount lenses can be fast, tiny, and reasonably priced. Not all of them are super sharp or cover the format. But the vignetting, softness, and swirly bokeh (that some exhibit) can work for many images.
Among my Leica mount lenses, the CV 35/2.5 and Canon 35/2.8 are very happy on the front of my E-PL2... the 50mm lenses (CV 50/1.5, Canon 50/1.8, Summitar 50/2) less so.
The 20/1.7 pancake is temporarily unavailable and trading for ridiculous prices on ebay - like 140% of full retail new for a used example!
The c-mount lenses can be fast, tiny, and reasonably priced. Not all of them are super sharp or cover the format. But the vignetting, softness, and swirly bokeh (that some exhibit) can work for many images.
Among my Leica mount lenses, the CV 35/2.5 and Canon 35/2.8 are very happy on the front of my E-PL2... the 50mm lenses (CV 50/1.5, Canon 50/1.8, Summitar 50/2) less so.
michalurban
Lapeno Enriquez
Hi, thanks for your reply.
Just to make sure, FL = focus lenght of the lens, right?
I also dont really get what do you mean by "14 on 3:4 seems quite different than 28mm on 2:3" - I suppose you are talking about the ratio setting in the camera. Is this setting not just about the camera "cropping" the sides of the image when I switch from 2:3 to 3:4?
BTW I prefer the 2:3 ratio and if I buy say GF1 with this 14mm lens, I would end up with a small camera with wide 28mm lens, am I right?
Just to make sure, FL = focus lenght of the lens, right?
I also dont really get what do you mean by "14 on 3:4 seems quite different than 28mm on 2:3" - I suppose you are talking about the ratio setting in the camera. Is this setting not just about the camera "cropping" the sides of the image when I switch from 2:3 to 3:4?
BTW I prefer the 2:3 ratio and if I buy say GF1 with this 14mm lens, I would end up with a small camera with wide 28mm lens, am I right?
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Beware the Ides of Serious Photographiness
michalurban said:
14mm on the 4x3 format is supposedly the equivalent of 28mm in 2x3 format. People tend to be blinded (or mislead) by cookie-cutter equivalences. While they are equivalent, to the trained eye they are not exactly the same. There are, for sure, differences. But if you're only looking solely at the angle-of-view, there's hardly any.
Wendy's french fries and McDonald's french fries may both be french fries with a common goal, but from different backgrounds.
michalurban
Lapeno Enriquez
Sorry, Im a bit confused here.
Lets say I have a Zenit camera with Pentacon 29mm. And I would have a GF1 with image size ratio set to 3:2 and a 14mm lens (ie. 28mm eq). Then the image (angle-of-view) would be almost the same, wouldnt it?
Lets say I have a Zenit camera with Pentacon 29mm. And I would have a GF1 with image size ratio set to 3:2 and a 14mm lens (ie. 28mm eq). Then the image (angle-of-view) would be almost the same, wouldnt it?
MaxElmar
Well-known
Sorry, Im a bit confused here.
Lets say I have a Zenit camera with Pentacon 29mm. And I would have a GF1 with image size ratio set to 3:2 and a 14mm lens (ie. 28mm eq). Then the image (angle-of-view) would be almost the same, wouldnt it?
Yes. It would be very similar. Just a little different feeling because the image is taller in relation to its width. By the way, 4:3 is the "native" aspect ratio - 3:2 and 16:9 are "crops" - You get the most pixels with 4:3.
The main problem with using a collapsible lens is that there's not much room for the lens tube in a little m34 camera - the lens may make contact with the sensor or the shutter mechanism while collapsed.
@gabriel - first time I've been accused of being serious about anything
- must be getting old or something.
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michalurban
Lapeno Enriquez
Thanks a lot. BTW do you know, if the I-22 is fully collapsible into the GF1? I found conflicting information on the net ...
MaxElmar
Well-known
I would be very careful with that Michael - as a matter of fact I just wouldn't do it at all. (looking at my E-pl2 - the sensor looks pretty well protected, but not much room in there at all - the electronic contact pins for the lens are only about 5mm inside the lens mount.) With most film cameras you could remove the back or just open the door to check clearance - not really possible with m43.
Guess I'm a chicken little about this...
ktran
Established
Hey there. My E-PL2 is my main digital camera these days. I shoot it with my variety of Leica Screw Mount and Nikon F-mount lenses without any problems.
I'd like to offer some clarification on a few points in this thread.
The whole deal with crop factor is just that, it's a crop factor. Your lens focal length doesn't change or anything, nor does it have anything to do with 4:3 vs 3:2. It has to do with everyone having grown up with, and the consumer photo industry having standardised around 35mm film (or "135 format"), which happens to be what "full frame" digital SLRs are based around as well. The 4/3" sensor is approximately 1/4 of the size of a 35mm frame of film/"full-frame" dslr sensor, so a given lens on 4/3 and micro 4/3 will cover the Field of View of a lens with 2x the focal length on 135-format/Full-frame digital slr.
Think of it another way: 50mm is a "normal" lens on 35mm film format. 75mm is "normal" on many medium format cameras, and 20-25mm is "normal" on 4/3 and micro 4/3. Go higher for telephoto, and lower for wider-angle. Just keep things relative. A 28mm lens is wide-angle on full-frame DSLR, but is super-wide-angle on medium format, and normal(ish) on m4/3.
That's it. That's all. Imagine an image on a 35mm piece of film. Imagine that the centre of it is isolated. That's all there is to it.
Medium format can be 1:1 ratio, or 6:7 ratio. Large format can be 4:5 ratio (whence we get 8x10 large format cameras). Ratios are just that. They are unitless, and have nothing to do with crop factors (well, not really/directly, anyway).
To mount your industar lenses, you want a Leica Screw Mount adapter for your PEN. I have one by fotodiox. It's pretty well made, but not perfect. Others can be better or worse, I cannot comment. I would also not collapse your I-22 into the PEN. I have a Leica Summitar, that will not collapse all the way into the camera. Forcing it would damage things irreparably.
I hope this clears up a bunch of things...
I'd like to offer some clarification on a few points in this thread.
The whole deal with crop factor is just that, it's a crop factor. Your lens focal length doesn't change or anything, nor does it have anything to do with 4:3 vs 3:2. It has to do with everyone having grown up with, and the consumer photo industry having standardised around 35mm film (or "135 format"), which happens to be what "full frame" digital SLRs are based around as well. The 4/3" sensor is approximately 1/4 of the size of a 35mm frame of film/"full-frame" dslr sensor, so a given lens on 4/3 and micro 4/3 will cover the Field of View of a lens with 2x the focal length on 135-format/Full-frame digital slr.
Think of it another way: 50mm is a "normal" lens on 35mm film format. 75mm is "normal" on many medium format cameras, and 20-25mm is "normal" on 4/3 and micro 4/3. Go higher for telephoto, and lower for wider-angle. Just keep things relative. A 28mm lens is wide-angle on full-frame DSLR, but is super-wide-angle on medium format, and normal(ish) on m4/3.
That's it. That's all. Imagine an image on a 35mm piece of film. Imagine that the centre of it is isolated. That's all there is to it.
Medium format can be 1:1 ratio, or 6:7 ratio. Large format can be 4:5 ratio (whence we get 8x10 large format cameras). Ratios are just that. They are unitless, and have nothing to do with crop factors (well, not really/directly, anyway).
To mount your industar lenses, you want a Leica Screw Mount adapter for your PEN. I have one by fotodiox. It's pretty well made, but not perfect. Others can be better or worse, I cannot comment. I would also not collapse your I-22 into the PEN. I have a Leica Summitar, that will not collapse all the way into the camera. Forcing it would damage things irreparably.
I hope this clears up a bunch of things...
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