comparing rangefinder and ground glass for studio portraits

[jgrainger]

I'd like to add occasional portraits into what I do (for fun), and am considering my options.
In terms of current equipment, I already have a Busch Pressman, a Plaubel Universal 5x7 (with only a 4x5 back), a 5x7 enlarger, and a couple of Fresnel hot lights. As retouching negatives is integral to this there's some extra merit to 5x7.

I normally use my Pressman for landscapes, with the "Vue-focus" rangefinder limited to 1 focal length. I have a 135mm Raptar, 8 1/2" Kodal CE for the Pressman, and a 300mm Symmar which fits the Plaubel.

I've used my 35mm and medium format rangefinder cameras for casual portraits in the past and like the setup. With 5x7 there are only a few rangefinders to choose from, they're generally expensive, and looking at my favourite (Hollywood) photographers/ their equipment, it seems like plenty of people have managed fine without a rangefinder - some even using the string method etc to maintain focus.

Is it really that much harder to take portraits with a view camera when chatting to the subject to get the right facial expressions?

Is it really possible to even utilise a rangefinder on a 5x7 camera to effectively focus at (shortish) portrait distances?

- maybe I could use an auxiliary rangefinder stuck on top of a view camera to trip the shutter when the subject moves within a pre- focused distance. Using the hot lights should allow some DOF (relatively speaking) too.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

If you're going for more of the candid look with a view camera, you're going to have to stop down just a bit to give you that zone of sharpness that the subject can sit within and breathe, move slightly, etc., while you hit the cable release. one key will be to ensure that there is detail in the background which will appear out of focus in order to contrast the zone of sharp focus and make the subject "pop" out of the frame.
Use a big studio with a good amount of depth, a lot of light and stop down so you can allow your subjects the ability to move. Some tape marks on the floor or a single static place where the subject will sit or stand and move naturally within their range of motion could work well.
Doing this is no different than taking a studio portrait with a miniature format camera where you are trying to get the right candid look while speaking with the subject and not looking directly into the viewfinder.
Yousuf Karsh was a master of using large format for his portraiture, but they were usually very much posed. His composition and lighting technique are excellent for study.

Philip Forrest

 

[Ronald M]

People simply do not sit still enough for LF without a little help.

I try to use a bar stool with back and arm rests. Position chair so the subject`s shoulders are the way you want. 30 to 60 degrees from camera axis works for me otherwise they naturally want to sit facing the camera and you get a police mug shot .

If using a RF. set it to distance, 5 feet -90mm lens, Leica camera, and move camera so catchlights in eyes merge. Works best with studio electronic flash

 

[Bill Clark]

Making people portraits involves many ingredients to achieve success. And success in business, to me, boils down to realizing that beauty is in the eye of the checkbook holder.

Three essentials are posing, lighting and composition. It is also establishing a rapport with your subject as most are not trained actors. There are other ingredients.

Equipment is down on the list. Maybe you already understand this but I thought I would mention it and possibly helping you.

Try searching you tube as there are videos available.

To be quite honest, I didn’t know what I was doing until I met someone who did and offered classes on this. With him, my business did quite well and it became fun for the clients who hired me.

Smiles.

 

[Mackinaw]

.......Is it really possible to even utilise a rangefinder on a 5x7 camera to effectively focus at (shortish) portrait distances?.......

I don't have a 5x7, but use a 4x5 Crown Graphic for studio portrait work. I calibrated the rangefinder so it is spot-on at about six feet. I use a 135mm lens and am very happy with the results. For my 210mm lens, I use the ground glass to focus.

A sample with the 135mm. On Tri-X.

 

[jgrainger]

Thank you to everyone who's replied,

Having the latest (or absolute best) equipment is both wasted on me, and not really what I'm interested in, but there's no need to make things unnecessarily difficult on top of wanting to follow a specific look and technique - particularly as there doesn't seem much of a cost difference between properly sorting my Plaubel out vs possibly trading some stuff in and getting something else.

To be honest, I was thinking of trading my Busch (which I like using) and/or Plaubel for something like a 5x7 metal field camera which can also be fitted with a 4x5 back (but those don't have a RF), waiting for an affordable 5x7 rangefinder.. or an old MPP with the bellows to use the 300mm and rear movements.. the cost of getting my Universal setup to how I'd like it is comparable to buying something like a project Rittreck (which would be much nicer to carry).

I haven't ever done a portrait with a view camera - would really like to sit in on such a shoot.. you've got me thinking, it may be worth trying to find someone in this part of the country.. have seen a couple of videos but they weren't exactly what I had in mind - will look for more.

The idea of trying to do a portrait while taking my eye off the focusing screen / loading a film holder / engaging with the subject is a bit daunting..

I could try obtaining a 5x7 rangefinder if it's really worth having, or using an uncoupled rangefinder - maybe in the form of a partial Kiev 4 parts camera masked to the FOV and modified to fit a cold shoe, to allow distance and framing through one viewfinder.

I'm really interested to hear peoples view camera or large format rangefinder portrait experiences.

 

[Mackinaw]

........The idea of trying to do a portrait while taking my eye off the focusing screen / loading a film holder / engaging with the subject is a bit daunting......

Maybe your experience with mimic mine. I live in a rural area of northern Michigan, and virtually nobody I photograph has ever seen a 4x5 camera before. They're amazed by it and are fascinated how it works. I have no problem getting their attention, and have no problem posing them how I want.
After I finish taking a few pics, all I get are a lot of smiles and people eager to have me take more pics.

Jim B.

 

[keytarjunkie]

Maybe your experience with mimic mine. I live in a rural area of northern Michigan, and virtually nobody I photograph has ever seen a 4x5 camera before. They're amazed by it and are fascinated how it works. I have no problem getting their attention, and have no problem posing them how I want.

This is usually my experience, but there's still a point when everyone starts to get bored and move around. Sometimes I talk through the steps as I go, which keeps them occupied and also reminds me of what I'm doing.

As to using rangefinders with large format, sure. It sounds like you don't want to go all out on a Linhof Technika 5x7, but that would be the camera to get if you want a good 5x7 rangefinder; there are many inexpensive options available if you can settle for 4x5. Otherwise, just mount a hotshoe rangefinder onto the camera, set the correct distance with the ground glass, and then you can use that as a "live" preview while the camera is loaded. It won't be as exact as the ground glass, so stop down a bit.

 

[Cascadilla]

I used to do some portrait work with a 4x5 Toyo monorail and White Lightning studio flash. f/16 or 22 and a well established subject position took care of the focus issues. I always found that since the camera and its operation was pretty exotic that I got a lot more interest and cooperation with the 4x5 than I did with 35 or digital. If you want an accurate rangefinder and parallax corrected viewfinder in 5x7 format the Linhof is probably the best choice, although it won't be cheap.

 

[oftheherd]

I have only done a few portraits of the studio type, and never commercially. So,I think another point to ask about is what type of portraits you are looking to make.

Studio portraits are often made by putting a chair, stool, or bench and then always putting your subject there there in the same spot every time. Then your only problem is ensuring your subject has their hair right and clothes without unsightly wrinkles.
Lighting will be the same every time as well.

Now if your going to move around outside or inside a building, and especially if moving, then rangefinders or smaller LF cameras and a lot of practice make more sense. Then I would pay more attention to the advice of those who obviously have successfully done that.

 

[Particular]

I have a Linhof Technika III 5x7 with a RF coupled 210mm lens (it is actually 13x18). I got it cheaply, but I have put some time and money into restoring it because it looked pretty sad when I got it. I haven't done any portraiture with it (other than some self-portraits as tests), but I do imagine that having an RF could be useful. The problem I see though is that at short range the rangefinder patch is not in the center of your frame, and if let's say you want to quickly focus on the eyes of your sitter, you will then need to recompose the frame with a finder of some sort. Just before taking the shot you will be adjusting the tripod, checking viewfinders and other busy things which may be distracting. If you do it the traditional way, all you need to do is ask the sitter to sit still once you have focussed and composed, which sounds more relaxed to me.
I do intend to try this camera for outdoor portraits with a monopod (i.e. semi-handheld), in which case the rangefinder would be used, and I would then casually reframe and shoot.
As for using something like this with a 4x5 back, that doesn't make sense to me. This camera is so much bigger and heavier than your Busch Pressman. Shlep the 5x7 if you want the 5x7 negs, don't break your back while you have something lighter that can do the same thing.
Why not try your Busch Pressman with the rangefinder for some portraits? If you like that way of working you can always shop around later. The simplest way to get into 5x7 would be to look for a 5x7 back for your Plaubel.

 

[jgrainger]

There have been some really useful points, and I had forgotten something obvious.

The point about the position of the rangefinder patch is a really good one - I'd imagine that a couple of meters distance would make it really difficult to use a rangefinder to focus on the subject's eyes.. The Pressman has spoiled me due to the combined rangefinder and viewfinder, but thinking about it, the patch still has the same problem with position.
With that in mind, it seems that a coupled rangefinder will offer no advantage - regardless of 5x7 camera.

I'd like to do some George Hurrell inspired pictures - perhaps a bit of a cliche nowadays, but was my original large format ambition which has yet to happen. This should mean the use of some props for seating or leaning on.

Guess I had forgotten that people can be more easy going around large format cameras is certainly true - the Pressman can attract some conversations from strangers.

Looks like I better do a bit of searching for an affordable 5x7 back - will probably buy one then adapt it to the Plaubel / replacement camera.