Condensation in Summicron 50/2 Rigid?

kermaier

kermaier

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I just purchased a Summicron 50/2 Rigid (first type with single distance scale) and it has some haze internally on what seems to be elements in the rear group. On close inspection, the haze looks like a fog of tiny droplets, almost like condensation mist on a window.

Has anyone seen this before?

Can this sort of thing appear as a result of international air shipping (maybe climate/altitude changes)?

What's to be done about it? Will it dry out on its own, or do I need to have it cleaned?

::Ari
 
Sounds like the lens needs a professional cleaning. (CLA=clean, lube, adjust). Call Sherry Krauter at Golden Touch Camera 845-495-8834 in Campbell Hall, NY. She just cleaned a Summicron of about that age for me. Now looks, works great. No connection, other than as a satisfied customer.

Ben Marks
 
I understand that the insides of aircraft, including their holds, have controlled humidity on the dry side. The condensation you see, or whatever it is, is likely to be broken down lubricant. If it is that, it will not go away of its own accord.
 
payasam said:
I understand that the insides of aircraft, including their holds, have controlled humidity on the dry side. The condensation you see, or whatever it is, is likely to be broken down lubricant. If it is that, it will not go away of its own accord.
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Hmmm, that does not sound good. I guess I need to decide whether to get it cleaned or return the lens to the seller. (The latter would be a shame, because it's an otherwise beautiful lens.)

::Ari
 
kermaier said:
Hmmm, that does not sound good. I guess I need to decide whether to get it cleaned or return the lens to the seller. (The latter would be a shame, because it's an otherwise beautiful lens.)

::Ari
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Ari,
This seems to be happening to you more than once! 😀
 
Unless you got it for an absurdly low price, perhaps you should return it: the "condensation" may well have damaged the coating or even the glass itself.
 
raid said:
Ari,
This seems to be happening to you more than once! 😀
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Yes, Raid, definitely. I've several times received lenses with unexpected/undeclared issues, including coating damage, haze, fungus, element separation, sticky diaphragm, detached diaphragm blades, extremely stiff focus, dented filter ring, etc. And the frequency of issues seems to be similar for items bought from RFF members, eBay sellers and KEH. Maybe my luck is worse than others'?

::Ari
 
payasam said:
Unless you got it for an absurdly low price, perhaps you should return it: the "condensation" may well have damaged the coating or even the glass itself.
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No, not an absurdly low price at all, alas. The seller assured me that the glass was clean, so either he didn't look at a light through the lens like I did, or the haze appeared during shipping (a long distance) -- which was why I thought it might be moisture condensation.

::Ari
 
I am now double and triple checking anything I put up for sale, but still, there are occasions when something unsuspected appears as problematic. With RFF members you at least have a good chance of getting your money back.
 
Sparrow said:
my repair chap charges extra for that one, apparently it's it's a pain to work on. I had mine cleaned last year, very nice lens
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Yes, it's a great lens. I have one already, a late-model Rigid (dual-scale), in beater cosmetic condition but good optically and mechanically. I've been trying to get a good example of the earlier Rigid at a fair price, because I prefer the focus ring ergonomics on the first model. Apparently, it's darned hard to find one with clean glass! 🙁

::Ari
 
My Summicron is still in mint condition. It's a beauty. I would not sell it for $1000, regardless of set market prices.
 
I'm wondering if haze is endemic to the rigid? I bought one a couple of years ago and had it CLA'd by DAG including haze removal, but I couldn't stand the tab/infinity lock thingy. Bought a late DR and sold the rigid a couple months ago. Then I heard back from the buyer about a month after it was sold, he thought there was a hint of haze in the lens. He was actually very good about it and the last I heard he was sending it to DAG as he had an electronic copy of my repair paperwork. Have yet to hear from him as DAG will probably have the lens for ages. But it does make me wonder if once you get haze in the lens it's never totally eradicated... 😕
 
raid said:
I am now double and triple checking anything I put up for sale, but still, there are occasions when something unsuspected appears as problematic. With RFF members you at least have a good chance of getting your money back.
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Yes, I'm also planning to hold a major sell-off of my seldom-used equipment, and I'll be examining everything carefully when I write the descriptions.

As for getting my money back, I've never had a problem with that on eBay or RFF. A couple of times in both arenas, however, I instead came to an agreement with the seller where they reimbursed me for repair costs rather than take the item back.

The only time I had trouble was, surprisingly, with KEH -- I didn't realize that an item graded "UG" would incur a restocking fee to return, but I guess that's my fault for not reading the fine print before taking a risk on a beater lens. :bang:

::Ari
 
peter_n said:
I'm wondering if haze is endemic to the rigid? I bought one a couple of years ago and had it CLA'd by DAG including haze removal, but I couldn't stand the tab/infinity lock thingy. Bought a late DR and sold the rigid a couple months ago. Then I heard back from the buyer about a month after it was sold, he thought there was a hint of haze in the lens. He was actually very good about it and the last I heard he was sending it to DAG as he had an electronic copy of my repair paperwork. Have yet to hear from him as DAG will probably have the lens for ages. But it does make me wonder if once you get haze in the lens it's never totally eradicated... 😕
Click to expand...

I think haze is pretty common in Leica lenses of the 1950s-1960s era. Sometimes it can be completely removed, sometimes not. The key is to have the cleaning done by someone good, as the coatings on Leica lenses of that period are easy to damage.

Earlier this year, I bought a Summaron 35/2.8 (on eBay, touted as near-mint) that had moderate haze and a focus that was so stiff as to be literally unusable. The seller paid for most of the cost of sending it to Sherry Krauter for CLA. After the service, the focus was good, but there was still a very slight haze. When I asked about it, Sherry said to just use it and enjoy it -- not worth the risk to the glass. The lens performs great, and I've learned to not let the knowledge of the slight haze bother me.

But a mist of condensation or oil on the glass of this Summicron is not something to ignore -- it will in all likelihood damage the lens if left untreated.

::Ari
 
I've taken a Rigid Summicron of this type apart, cleaned it, and re-assembled it: it is a challenge. The glass is in extremely tight. I used a Suction Cup that came with a toy "Barbie Sun-Catcher" for holding it on the window. It had haze, which cleaned up "80%". By contrast, It took 10 minutes to perform the same operation on a Nikkor 5cm F2. Haze is common in these older lenses, usually forms on each side of the aperture blades. Usually it cleans off. On the Canon lenses, it can etch the glass. Best to get it taken care of.
 
BUT:

if the haze is immediately before or after aperture, it's easier, the whole front can be unscrewed.

And yes, I do think lenses can haze up during air transport.

Roland.
 
The Summicron that I worked on had haze under the front element: so you might be Lucky!

I had Two lenses frost up during shipment. A Kodak Retina 135/4 Tele-Xenar. Perfectly clear in the Ebay photo's, arrived look like the inside of a Shower Door. Came apart easily, cleaned up perfectly. The second also cleaned up, was a 5cm f1.5 Sonnar.
 
Roland, Brian: Why do you think that might happen? Pressure, temperature, moisture are all that come to mind. Vibration seems an unlikely villain, being present in cars, trains and so on.
 
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