Congratulations to all Americans!

[DNG]

What bothers me is that many of today's conservatives, and even mainstream Republican candidates do little, if any, to distance themselves from the hardcore bigots, racists, and extremists of that kind.

One notable exception was Ross Perot in the previous decade. When he was questioned about an allegation that he was supported by such types, his response was very blunt and to the point, along the line of ...

"If hate is your thing, I don't want your vote! End of topic, next question ..."

I did not vote for him, but I do have a great respect for the way he put those of that mindset in their place.

It is my impression, and I would very much welcome any evidence to show I am wrong here, that many of today's candidates, including those currently on the traveling tent-show circuit, are avoiding this issue like a third rail, almost as if they are afraid of alienating that particular contingent of the far-right.

That's one thing that scares me! 🙁

It scares me too
they avoid the tent show issues, because THESE people vote GOP! That's all the respected (?) GOP leaders care about! So, they let them run their own campaign under the GOP tent. Yes, there was a light reproof of their action (re-action), but never an all out distancing...This would cause the GOP to lose too may votes in Nov. imo.

 

[Olsen]

If you are an American, Can I predict that when you hit 62, you will not sign up for Medicare, or draw Social Security, and if you ever have children with disabilities, you will not help them get SSI, or Medicaid to help pay for the very expensive medical and other services like Occupational and Speech therapy ($100.00 per hour, at a typical 3-6 hours per week = $600 to $1,200 PER WEEK for 2 services per week). These ARE government run programs that are administered on the state level, to give these kids a fighting chance to at least grow to their potential. As a parent of a child with Downs and Autism, These programs have saved us tens of thousands of dollars of needed medical and other services.

So you want cut out Medicare. Medicaid, SSI. SSDI, and Social Security for the 62 and over group and younger disabled folks? These ARE ALL government run programs for those IN NEED....Do you REALLY BELIEVE this... Or, are you swede by the "Anti-Government" crowd with the likes of Timothy McFay and other extreme folk who don't represent the majority, not even close.

If you so strong on this view, a question for thought....

With NO GOVERNMENT.......
WHO will pay for public education, the roads that need fixing and upgrades, medical expenses when you no longer earn any money and you no longer will have Social Security income (because you got rid of them)...That is: you are broke and have no job...WILL YOU TRUST the PRIVATE sector to "BAIL YOU OUT" when you are hungry, or need to pay our rent.. or how about your med's in old age.. Who will pay for them? We've seen the Private Sector almost bankrupt out country with their greed for FAST WEALTH... Do you REALLY think these For Profit companies are going to take care of us (and you)? REALLY ??????????

Some things NEED to have a government role in providing money to those who can't afford it, by disabilities or they are no longer in the work force because of their age. Because the amount of money is WAY BEYOND any private entity to supply the money...If they want to... They don't have to, and won't, despite these extreme viewpoints being spouted. Why... They are under NO OBLIGATION to anyone but their stock holders or owners.. Ain't gona happen my friend.

HOW would you help these people, of which you will be, one day also??

This is very well put. You are explaining why we Europeans want these services to be 'public'. Not private. And why we want a strong government, public education, support programs for the disabled, the old etc. This is civilisation to us.

Norwegian National Broadcasting (NRK) brought a scoop from New York tonight. Showing the huge mass of poor people all dependant on soup kitchens and food handouts in New York. New York has 1,5 million people bellow the US government defined poverty line.

This sort of news reporting from USA have become more frequent lately on both NRK and the Swedish SVT. While news from USA is rare over here, except for school shootings or Space Shuttle lauches.

New York is also a place with concentrated wealth with some 56 billionaires on the Forbe's List. Possibly the densest concentration of billionaires in the world.

NRK went to the Town Hall in New York, trying to interview the New York mayor, Bloomberg. He did not make himself available when he got to know what the questions was about.

Instead, a 'spokesman' or press officer made some arrogant statements that 1,5 million poor 'was OK', and nothing 'Town Hall' could do anything about.

I can't have been the only Norwegian that got pissed off by this arrogant attitude. Politicians with this attitude will have a life span of 20 minutes here in Europe.

How come they can survive in USA?

 

[DNG]

@Olsen

"NRK went to the Town Hall in New York, trying to interview the New York mayor, Bloomberg. He did not make himself available when he got to know what the questions was about.

Instead, a 'spokesman' or press officer made some arrogant statements that 1,5 million poor 'was OK', and nothing 'Town Hall' could do anything about.

I can't have been the only Norwegian that got pissed off by this arrogant attitude. Politicians with this attitude will have a life span of 20 minutes here in Europe.

How come they can survive in USA? "

Because the politicians scare the stupid and those that are smart, but act stupid into keeping the Statues Que.. IE: Their JOB's...They do and say anything to KEEP THEIR JOB's for life :bang: As witnessed by the fear and violence campaign to stop health reform.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Interesting. 1.5 million is about 3/4 of the population of Slovenia. Or it's about 1/4 of the population of Bulgaria. How long would you give the Slovenian or Bulgarian governments if that many of the population were below the poverty line?

'Balkanization' (splitting bigger nations into tiny ones) is often regarded as a bad thing. This 1.5 million figure has started me wondering... (It's around 8% of the population of New York City).

Cheers,

R.

 

[Olsen]

Ah, France a nation the USA should emulate. That's a joke on which to end the day. Time to go to bed. Good night.

That's no joke!

If you could make USA into a huge France, that would be quite tempting. I will retire late next year. My wife and I are looking at several alternatives to where we want to move and spend out retirement. Our American neighbours wants us to settle in Florida with them. But I don't know. I have this nagging feeling the USA is a barrel of gun powder about to explode. Except for that: The crime rate and all the guns around is also things that makes it very little tempting.

Which is sad, because the scenery in USA is spectacular. The National Parks, the mountains etc. I have a dream of driving across USA as I did with a friend of mine back in 91'.

But we are looking seriously at France. But it is expensive. My sister has bought a flat on The Golden Mile on Costa Del Sol. Which is also tempting. But I want to live at least 5 - 6 bus stops from family, if you understand what I mean.

Then we are very fond of Malaysia and Singapore. Particularly Tioman Island. But this is a national park in Malaysia. It is not possible to buy a house or a flat. Only rent. Which is fine by me. hum. Tioman Island is my favourite.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Scenery is pretty good in Bulgaria too, and Greece is just over the border.

But Frances and I much prefer French health care. Yes: it comes straight back to that, as you get older.

Would we ever move back to the USA? Hard to imagine...

Cheers,

R.

 

[Olsen]

Interesting. 1.5 million is about 3/4 of the population of Slovenia. Or it's about 1/4 of the population of Bulgaria. How long would you give the Slovenian or Bulgarian governments if that many of the population were below the poverty line?

'Balkanization' (splitting bigger nations into tiny ones) is often regarded as a bad thing. This 1.5 million figure has started me wondering... (It's around 8% of the population of New York City).

Cheers,

R.

New York's population is comparable with Sweden's; one of the countries topping the many living standard research lists around. Sweden also have poverty. There is no denial of that. But those on the lowest level, bellow the US gov. defined poverty line, are far - far less than 1,5 million people. Possibly a few thousand people. Number of billionaires in Sweden on the Forbe's List are 10 -12 people. Like IKEA owner Kamprad.

With 1,5 million people lining up for soup the Swedish government would have to face a revolution....

 

[David Murphy]

That's no joke!

If you could make USA into a huge France, that would be quite tempting. I will retire late next year. My wife and I are looking at several alternatives to where we want to move and spend out retirement. Our American neighbours wants us to settle in Florida with them. But I don't know. I have this nagging feeling the USA is a barrel of gun powder about to explode. Except for that: The crime rate and all the guns around is also things that makes it very little tempting.

Which is sad, because the scenery in USA is spectacular. The National Parks, the mountains etc. I have a dream of driving across USA as I did with a friend of mine back in 91'.

But we are looking seriously at France. But it is expensive. My sister has bought a flat on The Golden Mile on Costa Del Sol. Which is also tempting. But I want to live at least 5 - 6 bus stops from family, if you understand what I mean.

Then we are very fond of Malaysia and Singapore. Particularly Tioman Island. But this is a national park in Malaysia. It is not possible to buy a house or a flat. Only rent. Which is fine by me. hum. Tioman Island is my favourite.

Approach view to Tioman airport:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=en&sa=N&tbs=isch:1&ei=WNevS4_hE4_SswOFspzxCw

Looks nice!

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

New York's population is comparable with Sweden's; one of the countries topping the many living standard research lists around. Sweden also have poverty. There is no denial of that. But those on the lowest level, bellow the US gov. defined poverty line, are far - far less than 1,5 million people. Possibly a few thousand people. Number of billionaires in Sweden on the Forbe's List are 10 -12 people. Like IKEA owner Kamprad.

With 1,5 million people lining up for soup the Swedish government would have to face a revolution....

Olsen,

Keep in mind that the US Government's definition of "Poverty" is artificially set FAR lower than the real poverty income level to hide the real extent of poverty here. According to the official Federal Poverty Guidelines A family of 2 (single parent and child, like me and my son) is in poverty if their income is below $14,570 a year. Yeah right. Double that number, and you'll be a lot closer to the real minimum income needed to stay out of poverty....and I'm basing that on living in Fort Wayne, Indiana which is one of the least expensive places in the country to live! In Santa Fe, New Mexico, where I lived for a few years, housing costs THREE TIMES what it does in Fort Wayne. The Federal Poverty numbers do not make distinctions for actual living costs that vary considerably from place to place in this very large country.

The government claims that something like 14% of the population is in poverty. The real number is about 40%. No one wants to admit it.

 

[Olsen]

Approach view to Tioman airport:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.millionface.com/l/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/tioman-island-off-the-coast-of-malaysia1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.millionface.com/l/times-when-you-just-have-to-trust-the-pilot/&usg=__hRlwPk3r4XFiVfvW8gA5uQ2pEV0=&h=607&w=800&sz=61&hl=en&start=14&sig2=hIsGxN9azu-oeaYUdzvv_Q&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=pA13o3hwjogkVM:&tbnh=109&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTioman%2BIsland%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=WNevS4_hE4_SswOFspzxCw

Looks nice!

David,,

That is NOT the Airport of Tioman Island. It is far worse. One link here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tioman_Airport

I have taken this trip by Berjaya Air many times (more than 20) from Seletar Airport, Singapore to Tioman. Particularly the approach which can only be done from the North is incredible. Just like landing in a drawer. Everytime I have landed safely I feel just like Adolf Hitler on the 20th of July 44'. 'It is my destiny that I shall live - one more year...'

 

[Olsen]

David,

Some YouTube cuts of some landings at Tioman here. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw6iGTRXVC4&NR=1

 

[Olsen]

Olsen,

Keep in mind that the US Government's definition of "Poverty" is artificially set FAR lower than the real poverty income level to hide the real extent of poverty here. According to the official Federal Poverty Guidelines A family of 2 (single parent and child, like me and my son) is in poverty if their income is below $14,570 a year. Yeah right. Double that number, and you'll be a lot closer to the real minimum income needed to stay out of poverty....and I'm basing that on living in Fort Wayne, Indiana which is one of the least expensive places in the country to live! In Santa Fe, New Mexico, where I lived for a few years, housing costs THREE TIMES what it does in Fort Wayne. The Federal Poverty numbers do not make distinctions for actual living costs that vary considerably from place to place in this very large country.

The government claims that something like 14% of the population is in poverty. The real number is about 40%. No one wants to admit it.

Chris,

This is starting to dawn on me.

As you know, I could not figure out that there are so few tax payers in USA. And you pointed to the wide spread poverty. 40% could well be right.

I claim that unemployment in USA is:

- not the official 9,9%
- not the official 17% (those who have given up looking for a job included)
- not the unofficial 21 - 22% (many observers here in Europe don't trust figures coming from official US sources (a scandal in itself)- Like The Economist.

But turn this employment thing around. How many people should we expect to work in a nation with 309 million people with a average age of 36 years old?

In Norway, with it's ageing population (average age 39 years) 58,8% of the total population is working. Use that fraction on USA and the potential workforce is 181 million people.

But according to CIA the workforce (2008) is only 155 million people, the unemployed included. I hardly think than more than 145 million people in USA have a job today (correct me if I am wrong). But USA has a much younger population that Norway. The difference between 36 and 39 is actually huge as a statistical figure. I would argue that the potential workforce in USA is close to 200 million people.

That means that unemployment in USA is more like 27,5%. That could explain the huge poverty you are describing.

 

[splitimageview]

Don't give me that bull about conservatives being colorblind. Sure they are, as long as everyone in town is white.

So you are saying every single white conservative is racist? Every white Republican is racist, too, right?

Conservatives are also bigots, and homophobes, right? Go ahead, admit you believe that, too. Oh, yeah...forgot sexist.

The lamestream media is constantly trying to claim that Tea Partiers are all white, too. Oh, and they are violent! Yes, believe it (in spite of the lack of evidence.)

Guess who was beat up at a Tea Party in St. Louis...a black man. By liberal SEIU (union) thugs...but you don't see that on the news, do you?

Sigh.

So, how do you explain black conservatives then?

How do explain Michael Steele? Lynn Swann? Clarence Thomas? Condoleeza Rice? Lloyd Marcus? Walter Williams? Jackie Robinson? Thomas Sowell? JC Watts? Star Parker?

Need I go on?

And if all white conservatives are racists, what about white democrats? Are they all pure? Pure like Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, who wrote this:

I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.

— Robert C. Byrd, in a letter to Sen. Theodore Bilbo (D-MS)

 

[splitimageview]

could not figure out that there are so few tax payers in USA.

That's because the rich pay most of the tax.

The top 50% of wage earners pay 96% of income taxes.

The top 5% pay over 50% of all income taxes.

The top 1% pay more than ten times the tax than the bottom half do.

 

[splitimageview]

Olsen,

Keep in mind that the US Government's definition of "Poverty" is artificially set FAR lower than the real poverty income level to hide the real extent of poverty here. According to the official Federal Poverty Guidelines A family of 2 (single parent and child, like me and my son) is in poverty if their income is below $14,570 a year. Yeah right. Double that number, and you'll be a lot closer to the real minimum income needed to stay out of poverty....and I'm basing that on living in Fort Wayne, Indiana which is one of the least expensive places in the country to live! In Santa Fe, New Mexico, where I lived for a few years, housing costs THREE TIMES what it does in Fort Wayne. The Federal Poverty numbers do not make distinctions for actual living costs that vary considerably from place to place in this very large country.

The government claims that something like 14% of the population is in poverty. The real number is about 40%. No one wants to admit it.

I want to break out the violins when I see one of Chris's posts about how horrible things are in Ft. Wayne. Dude, if it's that bad, move!

No matter what the economic situation is, there is always opportunity if you are creative and are driven and work your ass off to find it.

Go rent the movie "Pursuit of Happyness."

 

[Olsen]

digitalintrigue,

I have seen this statistics before. I would not take it as telling the truth. Which is a sad thing with USA today; their statistics seem to be made to serve the stock market and the rich.

But even if it was true....

I am sure you agree that US tax payers pay all too little taxes. Only 25% of GDP. Compared to EU average, also too little, 41%. Or compared with Norway 43 - 44% which seems to be just about enough.

 

[splitimageview]

These figures are well established, they can be tracked for many years. The IRS is not a political party. 🙂

It's true.

And no, US citizens pay far too much tax. The Bush tax cuts spurred the economy and resulted in record tax intake for the US; now they are going to expire, at just the wrong time.

We need another tax cut, pronto.

But most importantly, we need spending cuts.

 

[Olsen]

The tax you pay today does not cover your spending...

The funny thing...

If president Obama decided to increase taxes drastically, the dollar would go up...! And the prices of imported goods would fall. By this the purchasing power of the ordinary American - would be the same. Or possibly improve.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

So you are saying every single white conservative is racist? Every white Republican is racist, too, right?

Conservatives are also bigots, and homophobes, right? Go ahead, admit you believe that, too. Oh, yeah...forgot sexist.

Where I live it is not a 'belief' acquired from so-called liberal media. Its a fact, and I have seen it every day of my life here. I was born in Indiana and lived most of my life here. I know the culture and the history of this place intimately. Now I understand that racism is not as pervasive in other parts of the country, and I know that not all conservatives are racists.

There are different types of conservatives. Two kinds for the most part. Some are mostly concerned about money. They're not usually racist or homophobic or otherwise ignorant. They're very wealthy people and they are for conservative economics because it benefits them. I can respect the intelligence of them, though I think their greed will cause social revolution.

The second type is not wealthy. Most are middle class and they are almost 100% racist and bigoted to the core. Conservative economics don't benefit them, indeed, conservatives have exported their jobs and pushed millions of these fools toward poverty but they hate the "******/jew/fag/wetback/etc" so deeply that they're peasant mentality cannot understand that they're shooting themselves in the foot by supporting rightwing economic policies.

So, how do you explain black conservatives then?

The few I have met were very wealthy. Not all blacks are poor, and in my experience middle and upper class blacks are deeply ashamed of the poor in the ghetto and frankly don't give a damn what happens to them. I dated a black girl from a well-off family for a while and her hatred for poorer black people shocked me. She only dated white men and her opinions of black men would make the Klan look openminded. She had a university degree and grew up in a wealthy neighborhood. Basically though, black conservatives fall into the first category: those whose concern is mostly about their wealth.

And if all white conservatives are racists, what about white democrats? Are they all pure? Pure like Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, who wrote this:

I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.

— Robert C. Byrd, in a letter to Sen. Theodore Bilbo (D-MS)

Senator Byrd is a very old man who joined the Democratic party back when it was the party of segregation. He has since apologized for his membership in the KKK as a young man and his racism as a young man. The republicans and democrats have switched places on the issue of race. The Republican party was founded on an anti-slavery platform and was sympathetic toward the rights of Blacks after slavery ended. The Democrats were the pro-slavery/pro-segregation party. Now the opposite is true. How many young to middle aged democrats have belonged to the Klan or are racist? NONE.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I want to break out the violins when I see one of Chris's posts about how horrible things are in Ft. Wayne. Dude, if it's that bad, move!

No matter what the economic situation is, there is always opportunity if you are creative and are driven and work your ass off to find it.

Go rent the movie "Pursuit of Happyness."

If you've paid attention you'd know I can't without abandoning my son. For money, I imagine you'd do that in a heartbeat. I will not. I am driven and have worked harder than you can imagine. I started out in the streets and now have a modest home and I and my son eat every day. I'm not arrogant enough to think like the conservatives insist, that anyone earns anything purely on their own. Someone helps you, no matter who you are. I've seen too many people get ahead based on family wealth or who they slept with to believe that bull****. If it were not for the help of a lot of good people in New Mexico, I would not have survived. Conservative Indiana didn't give a damn if I lived or died and no one here would hire me or use my services as a photographer or graphic artist. Damned amazing isn't it that as soon as I got the hell out of conservatardland I began making a decent living. If you don't like what I'm saying, too bad. Its the truth.