dfoo
Well-known
So I gather you don't really have any sources Olsen? Surely the socialist world news has something on how evil or poor America is?
Olsen
Well-known
That the purchasing power of 'just ordinary Americans' has fallen since 2001 is something you will find in even WSJ. - You will find a lot more in it on WSWS. - Written by American socialists, actually. Some of the most clever critiques of US policy & economy are Americans.
dfoo
Well-known
Words, just words. I did som searches and cannot easily find articles to back up your assertions, hence my question! I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying that I cannot find statistics from reliable sources to back up what you say. In addition, consider that inflation has been flat for years & years, many goods are significantly cheaper than ever before thanks to cheap Chinese manufacturing and WalMart. Yes, gasoline is more expensive and has a ripple effect on foods & other goods. But gas dropped over the last 2 years (but is rising again now due to the improved economy).
Olsen
Well-known
You will find it (at least) on WSWS. Both 'they and WSJ have had several articles on this lately. As Spoks mentions; has the crude oil price gone up in USA since, say, 2001....? I guess you will find that it as close to doubled. This is due to that the value of the US$ now is NOK 5,90 while back in 2001 it was NOK 9,95. Here in Norway the price of crude oil is about the same - in NOK, as back in 2001.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
The problem is those cheap chinese goods have destroyed the working class in the USA and caused millions to fall into grinding poverty.
What's destroying the middle class is the government.
It's not evil corporations that move offshore; they are only doing what is in their best interest (i.e., lowering their tax basis which is their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.)
If Congress lowered the corporate tax rates, companies would be relocating *here* and the jobs would come back.
It's not evil corporations that move offshore; they are only doing what is in their best interest (i.e., lowering their tax basis which is their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.)
If Congress lowered the corporate tax rates, companies would be relocating *here* and the jobs would come back.
dfoo
Well-known
WSWS is hardly reputable or impartial. Please link to a single reputable article.
Olsen
Well-known
No press source impartial. But I have no problems with regarding WSWS as reputable. Far more so than WSJ. Do the search yourself. I know it is there.
dfoo
Well-known
Clearly some press sources are more impartial than others. A website with the name "World Socialist Web Site" has an agenda that is as clear and partial as fox news!
Olsen
Well-known
The US corporate tax is quite competitive, and lower than the German corporate tax (Germany has been no 1 exporter in the world, is now no 2). Don't take corporate propaganda for more than it is; propaganda.
1)
The Chinese 'sell' their own crude oil (minerals, coal etc, etc) to domestic companies to prices far bellow international market prices. This is the major reason to the Chinese competitiveness. How are you going to compete with this...?
2)
It is impossible for just any decent democratic nation to compete with a dictatorship.
3)
Still. Much can be done to improve US competitiveness. Reducing health care cost and the public debt is two obvious things to do. Then you can reduce taxes!
To what I see; it is the huge US multi national companies that 'destroy' the US domestic employment market. They are so big that they can 'buy' just any government they want. A strong state/government and a democratic society is the only remedy. It is simply too obvious who will prosper from a weak government.
dfoo
Well-known
It was certainly the case that the Chinese internally subsidized gasoline and LPG for transportation purposes. However, they put a stop to that a couple of years ago. The price for gas in China now is about the same as in Canada (which is more expensive than the US).
Olsen
Well-known
Sure. But it is reputable. Take my word for it. I read it regularly.
Olsen
Well-known
That could well be, but China subsidises a range of raw materials and energy that goes into their export products. What China did regarding petrol prices for ordinary consumers was to subsidise it when the price skyrocketed beond 147$ per barrel.
Think if the US government had done that!
But crude oil is the basis for a range of other products, like LDPE, HDPE, Bitumen, PVC etc - and energy, which is very important for exports. Don't forget that a range of US companies want to have cheap Chinese imports. Because they prosper from it.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
That's a load of **** and you know it. The US government could make corporate taxes ZERO and remove ALL regulations and US companies would still export all the jobs because American workers simply cannot be paid 25 cents an hour. You know very well that is true.
antiquark
Derek Ross
You forgot about the unions and their demands for higher and higher wages.
Probably not. Maybe it has something to do with workers in Vietnam making $3 a day, or Chinese making a dollar an hour.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
If you care to define 'best interest' that way, of course you are right.
Bring in phrases like 'decent human being' and 'long term view' and you -- or at least some people -- may reach different conclusions.
Cheers,
R.
Olsen
Well-known
Agree.
Besides; most US multi nationals have subsidies in tax heavens like the Bahamas or Cayman Islands. They pay as much corporate tax as they want. Not more.
And...
From these tax heavens they can 1)buy US Treasury bills and 2) pay out corruption money to political supporters without being traced.
antiquark
Derek Ross
During the 1970's oil crisis, the Liberal government did that in Canada so Canadians could still have cheap oil. It backfired. The province of Alberta lost billions in oil profits, and they still hate the Liberal party for doing that. A phrase was coined at that time, to describe how Albertan's felt about the situation: "Let the eastern bast*rds freeze in the dark."
Anyway, the NAFTA free trade agreement "fixed" that problem. If there's another oil crisis, Canada will be paying the world price, even though we're net exporters. The agreement makes it illegal for Canada to sell oil cheaper to Canadians than Americans!
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Did they SUBSIDIZE the price or did they REGULATE it? There's a gigantic difference. If they subsidized it, producers did not lose a cent; subsidies are payments from government to producers to ensure they get market value for their products while selling them to consumers a below-market prices. Regulated prices, however, do cause business to make less since government merely tells them they cannot sell above a certain price.
dfoo
Well-known
That isn't quite correct. China held the price of gasoline/LPG right around 4 RMB per liter for a number of years effectively subsidizing the price of gas & LPG. The subsidy, btw, was causing lots of problems for people who use LPG vehicles in China, since many gas stations stopped stocking (against central government rules) as they had to pay more for LPG than they were legally permitted to sell it for! Here is an article on this topic http://china.org.cn/environment/news/2008-06/16/content_15816613.htm
When the price of oil exploded they didn't raise the price of gas, and thus the subsidy rose further & further. When Oil hit ~$130 they finally raised the price of fuel, but I don't think it reflected the true cost.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...-fuel-subsidies/2008/06/20/1213770924137.html
http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/27/gas-inflation-china-oped-cx_dhs_0528oilchina.html
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