x-ray
Veteran
I'm considering a new M9 to suplement my Canon 1DsII system that I use in my commercial photo work and have a few questions for owners of the M9.
I have followed the M8 and M9 since they came out and did not feel the M8 was up to the task of demanding commercial photography. In researching the M9 it's beginning to look like its a workable camera that would fit well into some of my location commercial assignments. I do however have a couple of questions that I haven't found any recent remarks about.
1) It appears that there have been issues with battery life. How is battery life, how long does it take to fully charge batteries and what are any related thoughts?
2) I read complaints that it took a minute or so to reformat a memory card. Has this been resolved?
3) Is ther an option to select lenses from the menu for lens correction purposes so that lenses do not have to be coded? None of my lenses are coded and would rather not take the time and expense to get them coded. I will be using current or late Leica glass.
4)How good are the coding kits and at what FL is it necessary to do the coding.
5) I will only shoot raw files so is there an option for various FL lens corrections in the software provided when converting raw files?
6) How is fame line accuracy?
7) Any IR problems?
8) Any prpoblems with fromt or back focus with Leica lenses? I'll be using a 21 Elmarit non Asph, 35mm asph Summicron, 50 Asph Summilux, 75 Summilux and 90 apo asph summicron and may use a 25 Biogon.
Any complaints about the camera operation, color, contrast or squawks about any part of the M9? Please be critical.
Thanks for your help!
I have followed the M8 and M9 since they came out and did not feel the M8 was up to the task of demanding commercial photography. In researching the M9 it's beginning to look like its a workable camera that would fit well into some of my location commercial assignments. I do however have a couple of questions that I haven't found any recent remarks about.
1) It appears that there have been issues with battery life. How is battery life, how long does it take to fully charge batteries and what are any related thoughts?
2) I read complaints that it took a minute or so to reformat a memory card. Has this been resolved?
3) Is ther an option to select lenses from the menu for lens correction purposes so that lenses do not have to be coded? None of my lenses are coded and would rather not take the time and expense to get them coded. I will be using current or late Leica glass.
4)How good are the coding kits and at what FL is it necessary to do the coding.
5) I will only shoot raw files so is there an option for various FL lens corrections in the software provided when converting raw files?
6) How is fame line accuracy?
7) Any IR problems?
8) Any prpoblems with fromt or back focus with Leica lenses? I'll be using a 21 Elmarit non Asph, 35mm asph Summicron, 50 Asph Summilux, 75 Summilux and 90 apo asph summicron and may use a 25 Biogon.
Any complaints about the camera operation, color, contrast or squawks about any part of the M9? Please be critical.
Thanks for your help!
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250swb
Well-known
1. You'll need a spare battery, but battery life isn't nearly as bad as people suggest if you don't constrantly chimp or have review switched on for longer periods.
2. Solved.
3. Yes you can set lenses manually in the menu, but corrections are only needed for wider lenses, otherwise its just a convenience to know what the lens was in the EXIF data.
4. Coding with a permanent marker isn't as easy with the M9, it requires a denser paint to register the code. If you are handy with a Dremel you can use a coder kit to check and confirm the code, then grind the necessary dimples yourself. Fill with black paint.
5. No, there are no lens profiles in software (Lightroom).
6. No better or worse than any other Leica rangefinder camera.
7. No IR problems although there can be red shift (not IR) towards the left edge of the frame if using some non-Leica lenses and/or uncoded lenses.
8. Front or back focus often isn't apparent with a film camera, but the digital sensor shows it up. You may need to have your lenses adjusted, or maybe not. I haven't needed any of my lenses adjusting. Similarly aperture related focus shift can be seen on some lenses, but this can't be adjusted, its a feature of the lens.
Hope that helps
Steve
2. Solved.
3. Yes you can set lenses manually in the menu, but corrections are only needed for wider lenses, otherwise its just a convenience to know what the lens was in the EXIF data.
4. Coding with a permanent marker isn't as easy with the M9, it requires a denser paint to register the code. If you are handy with a Dremel you can use a coder kit to check and confirm the code, then grind the necessary dimples yourself. Fill with black paint.
5. No, there are no lens profiles in software (Lightroom).
6. No better or worse than any other Leica rangefinder camera.
7. No IR problems although there can be red shift (not IR) towards the left edge of the frame if using some non-Leica lenses and/or uncoded lenses.
8. Front or back focus often isn't apparent with a film camera, but the digital sensor shows it up. You may need to have your lenses adjusted, or maybe not. I haven't needed any of my lenses adjusting. Similarly aperture related focus shift can be seen on some lenses, but this can't be adjusted, its a feature of the lens.
Hope that helps
Steve
ricnak
Well-known
5. I think there are lens profiles in LR3.
I have never actually used them. Computers and software are not my thing but if you go into LR3 under DEVELOP. THe 6th heading down is lens correction. You can correct on a lens profile or do it manually. Is that what you are after?
I have never actually used them. Computers and software are not my thing but if you go into LR3 under DEVELOP. THe 6th heading down is lens correction. You can correct on a lens profile or do it manually. Is that what you are after?
Ben Z
Veteran
Just as accurate at the calibrated focus distance as any other M camera. The frames don't shrink/expand to compensate for change in effective coverage as the lens is focused, so some experience and imagination is required for precise framing.
The M9 isn't as overly sensitive to IR as the M8 by a long margin, however it isn't completely neutral like the Canon. Basically, the M9 is now what Leica's marketing spin doctors claim the M8 was: in certain lighting, some black synthetics exhibit a slight color cast (in reality, the M8 had horrendous color casts with any IR-reflective subject, in any light). In those situations, an IR-cut filter completely solves any residual IR cast. However, the M9 doesn't have firmware correction for the cyan drift caused by the filters with lenses below 50mm, so using Cornerfix is really the best option.
The red edge caused by the internal filter has been mentioned. Most Leica lenses when coded (or using the manually-input codes) are well corrected. An exception is the pre-ASPH 21mm (you mention having one), which could still use a little more firmware finessing. A big problem exists with non-Leica lenses, because substituting Leica lens codes doesn't do the trick. Again, thank heaven for Cornerfix.
It's a crapshoot. Lenses didn't used to need to be so closely calibrated with film, so there is some variability there. Leica's QC could definitely stand improving, because imprecisely-adjusted rangefinders are not uncommon. Mine was fine at infinity, but required a good deal of readjustment for close focus (was front-focusing my lenses). Sometimes it's a combination of both. If you get the same focus deviation with all or almost all your lenses, it's a safe wager the rangefinder is off. If you get different results with different lenses, then it's harder to tell.
250swb
Well-known
You can make your own profile, put in whatever corrections you like, but there are none provided for Leica lenses.
Steve
sojournerphoto
Veteran
Just a couple of thoughts to supplement Steve's excellent summary.
- Although you can manually enter the lens in the menu, you will forget to do so at some point and, if you accidentally forget to tell it about the change from a 35 to a 90 you'll have very light edges to the frame. Much worse to deal with than simply coding your lenses.
- I don't have any Leica lenses, but my Zeiss ZMs are all absolutely spot on (including the C-Sonnar at f1.5), as is my 90/4 M-Rokkor. Whilst I would expect the same of Leica glass it's worth bearing in mind that my 35 and 50 ZMs were calibrated by the factory together with one of my Ikons. The 85 is a very expensive lens and really ought to be right!
- finally, be very careful with capture sharpening. It needs a much gentler approach than either Canon 5D or 1Ds3, so I would expect the same to apply in comparison with a 1Ds2. It's easy to over do and spoil the pictures. Also, you will see moire sooner or later - my first example was in the fabric of my daughters coat sleeve, purple and blue bars across her arm.
Enjoy, it's a nice piece of kit.
Mike
- Although you can manually enter the lens in the menu, you will forget to do so at some point and, if you accidentally forget to tell it about the change from a 35 to a 90 you'll have very light edges to the frame. Much worse to deal with than simply coding your lenses.
- I don't have any Leica lenses, but my Zeiss ZMs are all absolutely spot on (including the C-Sonnar at f1.5), as is my 90/4 M-Rokkor. Whilst I would expect the same of Leica glass it's worth bearing in mind that my 35 and 50 ZMs were calibrated by the factory together with one of my Ikons. The 85 is a very expensive lens and really ought to be right!
- finally, be very careful with capture sharpening. It needs a much gentler approach than either Canon 5D or 1Ds3, so I would expect the same to apply in comparison with a 1Ds2. It's easy to over do and spoil the pictures. Also, you will see moire sooner or later - my first example was in the fabric of my daughters coat sleeve, purple and blue bars across her arm.
Enjoy, it's a nice piece of kit.
Mike
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I've been shooting an M9 since August, and have not looked back to color film once.
I don;t notice that the batteries take a long time to charge- they do charge up most of the way pretty quickly. I have one spare battery, and rarely need to use it on shoots- I usually get about three or four 2GB cards worth of DNG (no jpg) files. I don't use the screen for much other than changing ISO or exposure compensation and the occasional check of frameline accuracy.
I've adopted a filing system that requires me to number each folder, I did this on the computer previously, the M9 allows making/renaming the folder at any time so I do this every time I insert a card. I give the folder the next number in sequence then format the card. Takes about as long as loading film.
Yes, but it is hard for me to remember always to do it. I've shot the 50/1.4 ASPH as the 35/1.4 pre-ASPH often, but haven't noticed any trouble from this. I'd agree that going from the 35 to the 90 w/o changing the setting would possible show up. I will say the 35/1.4 ASPH and my other old glass (28/2.8 V2 especially) look better than ever on the M9. I recently shot some with a borrowed 35/2 V4 wide open and was quite surprised.
Haven't tried. I'm considering shipping the lenses off to be coded a few at a time; I believe only 35 and shorter will benefit from identification. Others may have better ideas on this.
Haven't looked into this.
I find the accuracy better close, but it seems like the lines are much wider at any reasonable distance. I checked a few files today in an attempt to get something right at the edge of the frame, I did get it, but with more compensation than I thought I'd need. This was at about 20-30' away. But my .58 cameras are just as bad in this regard- just not precisely just as bad.
Never.
My 90/2.0 AA is very slightly off, I've not sent it in yet. My 50/1.4 ASPH is dead on- and it has never been 'calibrated' in any way. I shoot the same 35 and haven't noticed any trouble, and the 75/2 without any issues.
My main niggle is exposure compensation adjustments. There is a way to make the adjustment without the screen, but despite trying to get used to that method I couldn't manage- and ended up shooting frames over and over. I do wish the M7/8/9 had a dedicated physical adjustment incorporated somewhere simpler. Battery life has been fine, but I've not shot DSLRs to compare. The extra batteries are small and take up about as much room as a roll of 135. Files are super clean and require much less post production than the Nikon or Canon files I've worked with (other photographers work I do PP work on- by far mostly Nikon). I'm often surprised at just what one gets on paper after only a few minor adjustments in Camera Raw. The M9 offers the more direct route to print I think.
I tend to do all my white balance in PP, and leave the camera set to daylight for most work- tho I do adjust that for indoor jobs under one lighting type without flash. WB seems a bit cold for my taste overall- but then so did all color film- I was one of those 81A guys, and usually add some warmth in PS.
I don't shoot fast, so have never hit the buffer problems some have. Ergonomics of the body could be improved with a Rapidgrip- the Leica grip is nowhere near as good in my arthritic hand as a film M with a Rapidgrip. I'd suggest a Thumbs-up, it has made a big difference in handling for me, being so used to a wind-on lever as an assist in keeping the camera in hand.
I've had none of the connection troubles with my Mac that the first M8 had.
I'm saving for a second M9 body now. I am completely seduced for color.
I don;t notice that the batteries take a long time to charge- they do charge up most of the way pretty quickly. I have one spare battery, and rarely need to use it on shoots- I usually get about three or four 2GB cards worth of DNG (no jpg) files. I don't use the screen for much other than changing ISO or exposure compensation and the occasional check of frameline accuracy.
I've adopted a filing system that requires me to number each folder, I did this on the computer previously, the M9 allows making/renaming the folder at any time so I do this every time I insert a card. I give the folder the next number in sequence then format the card. Takes about as long as loading film.
Yes, but it is hard for me to remember always to do it. I've shot the 50/1.4 ASPH as the 35/1.4 pre-ASPH often, but haven't noticed any trouble from this. I'd agree that going from the 35 to the 90 w/o changing the setting would possible show up. I will say the 35/1.4 ASPH and my other old glass (28/2.8 V2 especially) look better than ever on the M9. I recently shot some with a borrowed 35/2 V4 wide open and was quite surprised.
Haven't tried. I'm considering shipping the lenses off to be coded a few at a time; I believe only 35 and shorter will benefit from identification. Others may have better ideas on this.
Haven't looked into this.
I find the accuracy better close, but it seems like the lines are much wider at any reasonable distance. I checked a few files today in an attempt to get something right at the edge of the frame, I did get it, but with more compensation than I thought I'd need. This was at about 20-30' away. But my .58 cameras are just as bad in this regard- just not precisely just as bad.
Never.
My 90/2.0 AA is very slightly off, I've not sent it in yet. My 50/1.4 ASPH is dead on- and it has never been 'calibrated' in any way. I shoot the same 35 and haven't noticed any trouble, and the 75/2 without any issues.
My main niggle is exposure compensation adjustments. There is a way to make the adjustment without the screen, but despite trying to get used to that method I couldn't manage- and ended up shooting frames over and over. I do wish the M7/8/9 had a dedicated physical adjustment incorporated somewhere simpler. Battery life has been fine, but I've not shot DSLRs to compare. The extra batteries are small and take up about as much room as a roll of 135. Files are super clean and require much less post production than the Nikon or Canon files I've worked with (other photographers work I do PP work on- by far mostly Nikon). I'm often surprised at just what one gets on paper after only a few minor adjustments in Camera Raw. The M9 offers the more direct route to print I think.
I tend to do all my white balance in PP, and leave the camera set to daylight for most work- tho I do adjust that for indoor jobs under one lighting type without flash. WB seems a bit cold for my taste overall- but then so did all color film- I was one of those 81A guys, and usually add some warmth in PS.
I don't shoot fast, so have never hit the buffer problems some have. Ergonomics of the body could be improved with a Rapidgrip- the Leica grip is nowhere near as good in my arthritic hand as a film M with a Rapidgrip. I'd suggest a Thumbs-up, it has made a big difference in handling for me, being so used to a wind-on lever as an assist in keeping the camera in hand.
I've had none of the connection troubles with my Mac that the first M8 had.
I'm saving for a second M9 body now. I am completely seduced for color.
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x-ray
Veteran
I guess the main fear now is lenses that need calibrated for focus. I had a couple with my canons that needed calibrated but only a couple out of a dozen or so lenses.
How many of you have had Leica lenses go back for focus calibration and how many have not?
Your comments good and bad are greatly appreciated!
How many of you have had Leica lenses go back for focus calibration and how many have not?
Your comments good and bad are greatly appreciated!
250swb
Well-known
Page 137 of the English manual is what you need to read. Exposure compensation can be done via the screen/menu, the dial, or the shutter button and dial. Three ways.
Steve
user237428934
User deletion pending
With that, the rear dial finally makes sense.
luuca
Well-known
I have
elmarit 28 asph
summicron 35 v4
summilux 50 v2
tele-elmarit 90 "thin"
summicron 90 preasph
they all focus perfectly on my M9.
my only concerns are:
poor AWB (ok, I shot raw only, but it's better to have a good AWB...)
sensor dust (although I change lens very rarely)
slow review times (I wish a firmware update can solve this)
elmarit 28 asph
summicron 35 v4
summilux 50 v2
tele-elmarit 90 "thin"
summicron 90 preasph
they all focus perfectly on my M9.
my only concerns are:
poor AWB (ok, I shot raw only, but it's better to have a good AWB...)
sensor dust (although I change lens very rarely)
slow review times (I wish a firmware update can solve this)
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Yes. That shutter button & dial method is what I could not make work unless standing still, and even then not always. A little too much finesse needed for this moron. I did give the dial a try, but the screen is the most direct way for me- and the one that produces the fewest user errors.
I do quite like the INFO menu on the M9.
x-ray
Veteran
Sensor dust is a given with digital. I find I can reduce the need to clean the sensor by switching the camera off when changing lenses.
I only shoot raw and color balance in conversion generally so that's not a problem.
How slow is the review time for raw only?
rwchisholm
Established
Capture sharpening
Capture sharpening
It is interesting, but one of the cool aspects of the M9 and LR3 is the sharpening. I only need to sharpen the files on export, after editing. LR3 gives you the option to sharpen for screen or for print on export (when creating an exportable jpg that you either want to post online or print). The results seem to be just about perfect. This reflects the already sharp raw files that come natively from the M9. Takes a lot of work out of the sharpening guessing game, and I avoid accidental over sharpening, which leaves you with plastic, digital looking images.
Capture sharpening
It is interesting, but one of the cool aspects of the M9 and LR3 is the sharpening. I only need to sharpen the files on export, after editing. LR3 gives you the option to sharpen for screen or for print on export (when creating an exportable jpg that you either want to post online or print). The results seem to be just about perfect. This reflects the already sharp raw files that come natively from the M9. Takes a lot of work out of the sharpening guessing game, and I avoid accidental over sharpening, which leaves you with plastic, digital looking images.
rwchisholm
Established
M9 as a workhorse
M9 as a workhorse
I think the Leica interface (the batteries that lack staying power, the lenses that need coded or manually entered when switching, the labor intensive flash interface, the slight framing guessing games) can make the M9 frustrating to use when you are running a business. Shooting as an amateur, and as one who really enjoys using a rangefinder with all it's eccentricities, I do not find any of these little issues to be a big deal, especially given the stellar files produced. So as long as you know what you are getting into, then I think you will find the images just fantastic, and should be much better than the 1ds2 files, although that camera produces great files at low iso as well.
M9 as a workhorse
I think the Leica interface (the batteries that lack staying power, the lenses that need coded or manually entered when switching, the labor intensive flash interface, the slight framing guessing games) can make the M9 frustrating to use when you are running a business. Shooting as an amateur, and as one who really enjoys using a rangefinder with all it's eccentricities, I do not find any of these little issues to be a big deal, especially given the stellar files produced. So as long as you know what you are getting into, then I think you will find the images just fantastic, and should be much better than the 1ds2 files, although that camera produces great files at low iso as well.
luuca
Well-known
on my sony A900 I never had sensor dust problems, it have an auto/shake system each time I shoot off the camera.
raw review take time to have the img clear.
x-ray
Veteran
I think I've made mu decision to get one but first I must raise the money.
It's Christmas and you deserve a gift for yourself so go to the clasifieds and buy my gear.
Santa and the elves say it's OK!!!
It's Christmas and you deserve a gift for yourself so go to the clasifieds and buy my gear.
Santa and the elves say it's OK!!!
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I have lenses by Leitz, Zeiss, and CV. My Zeiss 21/4.5 Biogon gives me trouble with the magenta left edge, as does my CV 28/3.5.
You'll be quite happy with the M9!
You'll be quite happy with the M9!
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I see that you're selling your 50 Nokton? That is one of my favorite lenses on the M8 and M9.