Consoldation of cameras OR Help me purchase a new camera

[Merkinz]

Ok, I'm still relatively new to film. I've been shooting film for about a year but I absolutely love it, I have a Nikon D80 but I find I'm always taking out one of my film cameras. I've got a few cheap second hand film cameras Range finders, a TLR, SLR's, etc etc. and I've decided to sell off what I don't use and has a bit of worth and use the money to buy into a range finder system. I'm confident that this will suit my style of photography and I won't need to buy more cameras in the future, just lenses.

What I need:
• Small/Compact for travelling (after I finish my studies). This means a small lens quiver and light weight. I alsolike small for descrete street shooting.
• Quality that will last (I'm prepared to pay Zeiss prices but not quite Leica Prices just yet)
• M mount. This has been what I'm looking at.
• Fast. I like shooting natural light over flash any day. I'd love to not have to carry a flash at all.

SO as far as body is concerned I'm already sold on the Zeiss Ikon ZM. It looks solid and I've read alot of good things about it in comparison to the Bessa bodies and from what I've read I'm prepared to pay the difference.

LENSES: This is where I'm stuck. I'm prepard to pay the Zeiss Prices, and I'll be looking at getting 2 lenses but I don't know which way to go.

I shoot alot of my pics on a 35mm 2.8 (My trusty MJU II) but I know I'll want something not so wide so I'm thinking a 50mm as well. I've never tried a 28mm on "full frame" but it does interest me. Maybe I could do with a 28 instead of a 35... ??? I don't know...

...What I'm wondering is what exactly I get for my extra money with the Zeiss lenses. I Love the look of the pancake CV lenses because size matters. Also the speed of some of those CV lenses is truly awesome!

As far as 50mm goes in the zeiss range, The 1.5 sonnar is attractive because not only is it shorter than the 2.0 planar, but its also faster but I have been deterred by the focus shift issues I've read about wide open.😕 but what about the CV???

Ugh... I'm so confused. I don't mind paying the extra for the ZM lenses but are they worth that much more? I wish they had a bigger range as well...

Anyone care to shed some light on the lenses I could pair with a new Ikon? I could afford 2 (from 28mm 35mm and 50mm).

 

[back alley]

based on a lifetime of trial and error...there is no answer.

however, i would suggest you try the 35/2.8 zeiss lens. it's sharp, small and i quite like it 😉. play with only the 35 for as long as you need to decide if it's just right, or too short or too long. then get a 50 or 28 (maybe a 25) depending on what using the 35 tells you.

 

[tbarker13]

If you know you like to shoot with a 35, then I'd start by figuring out which 35 to get. You have lots of choices, with most of being just a different flavor of good. You almost have to work at it to pick a bad lens, with so many nice options out there.

You like fast, so I would suggest no less than a 35/2. You could go with the Zeiss or an older summicon (I know the third version can be had around $1,000 or less).
There have been some mixed reviews of the CV 35/1.4, but a lot of people like it. And it's pretty compact.

I sometimes wonder if a 50 is too close to a 35, though those are my two primary focal lengths right now (the 35 summincron III, and the Zeiss 50 Sonnnar).
I sometimes feel like a 75 or 90 pairs better with the 35. Other times, the 50 seems different enough. Plus, the ability to use it at f/1.5 is very nice.

 

[35mmdelux]

fast, on a budget 40mm/1.4 VC. for camera I would add a M4-P which can be had for $750. Thus for about $1000 you would have the best rig on your block.

 

[Merkinz]

If you know you like to shoot with a 35, then I'd start by figuring out which 35 to get. You have lots of choices, with most of being just a different flavor of good. You almost have to work at it to pick a bad lens, with so many nice options out there.

You like fast, so I would suggest no less than a 35/2. You could go with the Zeiss or an older summicon (I know the third version can be had around $1,000 or less).
There have been some mixed reviews of the CV 35/1.4, but a lot of people like it. And it's pretty compact.

I sometimes wonder if a 50 is too close to a 35, though those are my two primary focal lengths right now (the 35 summincron III, and the Zeiss 50 Sonnnar).
I sometimes feel like a 75 or 90 pairs better with the 35. Other times, the 50 seems different enough. Plus, the ability to use it at f/1.5 is very nice.

Thanks for the replies. I've also been wondering if 50 is to close to 35... and if I should instead go to 28 paired with the 50. I USED to like shooting W I D E but I've noticed I haven't been going that wide lately... and 28 is modestly wide.

Do you have issues with the 50 sonnar... with the "focus shift" in particular?

I'm attracted to the 50 sonnar because of is speed! and Yeah I'd like to have at least f2 if I chose the 35... if I decide to go 28 instead I guess I could go to 2.8... ugh... decisions decisions.

Ultimately I'd like to have 3 lenses:
I KNOW I want:
• a 50mm lens.
• a long lens 75 or 90 (I use a 100mm on a 645 alot, whats the 35mm equivalent?) but this lens will likely come later down the line.
• either a 25, a 28 or a 35.

Like I said, I've been shooting 35 a lot lately but that's mostly because that was whats been available to me, the MJU II is a fixed 35mm and it fits in my pocket so it travels everywhere with me! Maybe 28 is the way to go?...

Again. Thanks alot for the advice, every opinion helps in some way or another 🙂

 

[Merkinz]

fast, on a budget 40mm/1.4 VC. for camera I would add a M4-P which can be had for $750. Thus for about $1000 you would have the best rig on your block.

My budget isn't TOO constrictive, thou I don't want to throw away money.

Another thing is that aperture priority is almost a must. Firstly I shoot in A mode half of the time and secondly my partner will inevitably use the camera and she will most definitely prefer aperture priority.

 

[tbarker13]

You'll get lots of different thoughts on that Zeiss focus shift. Mine is that I prefer the version optimized for f/1.5. I've owned both. I just think the version optimized for max aperture fits me better. I probably use my lenses at max (or close to it) the majority of the time. It could just be a personal thing, but the other version bothered me.

I own a couple 28s (the cv 28/3.5 and 28/2) but since i primarily use them on the M8, the function more as 35mm lenses. I really find that this is as wide as I need to go for virtually all of my shooting.
I've had and then sold some wider lenses - they just don't work for me.

My personal kit is similar, though it will have 4 focal lengths: 28, 35, 50 and either 75 or 90. (I have a 75 now, but think I will replace it with a 90 for the extra reach)

 

[Merkinz]

You'll get lots of different thoughts on that Zeiss focus shift. Mine is that I prefer the version optimized for f/1.5. I've owned both. I just think the version optimized for max aperture fits me better. I probably use my lenses at max (or close to it) the majority of the time. It could just be a personal thing, but the other version bothered me.

I own a couple 28s (the cv 28/3.5 and 28/2) but since i primarily use them on the M8, the function more as 35mm lenses. I really find that this is as wide as I need to go for virtually all of my shooting.
I've had and then sold some wider lenses - they just don't work for me.

My personal kit is similar, though it will have 4 focal lengths: 28, 35, 50 and either 75 or 90. (I have a 75 now, but think I will replace it with a 90 for the extra reach)

OK I've read about the lenses being "optimised" for 1.5, does this mean that it shifts out of focus the other way when stopped up?

 

[thomasw_]

...Another thing is that aperture priority is almost a must...

because of this 'near' requirement -- and if the bessa build quality isn't for you -- then you will have to choose between the zi, the m7 and the hexar rf. again if the m7 is too expensive, then you will choose between a currently manufactored zi or a discontinued, not supported hexar rf. i'd go with a zi in that case...

I'd like to have 3 lenses:
I KNOW I want:
• a 50mm lens.
• a long lens 75 or 90.....but this lens will likely come later down the line.
• either a 25, a 28 or a 35.

so i presume to start you'd want a 50 and either a 28 or 35? With the 50, there are many non-leica sub f2 lenses to pick the one for you....for this choice of a lens signature, the m-mount group on flickr is your friend.

but regarding the 35 or 28mm selection, i recommend the 28mm focal length to combine it with your 50.....yet only if you can't afford both. for me the 35 is such a go-to focal length. though as a kit, the 50 + 28 makes a lot sense for versatility.

the 35/75 is much the same, btw.

 

[tbarker13]

OK I've read about the lenses being "optimised" for 1.5, does this mean that it shifts out of focus the other way when stopped up?

Well, the way it was described to me by the Zeiss repair representative was that once the lens is adjusted for f/1.5 optimization, the focus shift is essentially covered by depth of field as you stop down.
Here it is, in their own words:

"Well, of course the focus shift still exists after re-adjusting the lens, but will not be visible at f/1.5. When you stop down to f/2.8 or smaller, there will be a slight focus shift, but sharpness will be covered within the depth-of-field. In practical use, after the adjustment the focus shift will not play an important role anymore."

 

[Merkinz]

Cool! Thanks for the insight! 🙂

If I buy new, how do I go about sending it in? Obviously I'll contact the service center but does it cost? or is it a free service? Thanks.

Thomasw: Yes I'm definitely err'ing towards the 28mm lens. But I'll get the 50mm first! 🙂 And I think I'll get that sonnar! oh man it looks good!

 

[bottley1]

Ugh... I'm so confused. I don't mind paying the extra for the ZM lenses but are they worth that much more? I wish they had a bigger range as well...

Is this a joke? are not these enough: 15mm, 18mm, 2 x 21mm, 25mm, 28mm, 2 x 35mm, 2 x 50mm, and 85mm?

To answer your question, yes, in my opinion, they are superior to CV lenses in both build and optrical performance, with one or two notable exeptions, and the equal of Leica glass for most applications.

 

[tritiated]

It seems like you don't have too much funding limitation. I wouldn't dismiss CV lenses however, particularly if you want to experiment with different focal lengths.

Get the fast 50 that you want (Sonnar) -no point faffing around with that choice. Add to that perhaps that super small CV 28/3.5
- thats a compact lens pair!

 

[tbarker13]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this, but I think all of the new 50 sonnars coming out of Zeiss are optimized for f/1.5.
Either way, Tony Rose at Popflash sells that particular version. That's where I bought mine. Great guy to deal with and he's one of this site's sponsors.

Last year, with the 2.8 versions, Zeiss was doing the adjustments for free as part of the warranty. No idea how they would handle it if you bought a used lens that you wanted to adjust.

As for the 28, I have to agree with the previous post. The 28/3.5 is a wonderful lens. Seems to have a very solid build. Tiny. Makes great images.
And if the f/3.5 aperture is too limiting, the new cv 28/2 seems to be another good option.

 

[Eric T]

Get four or five CV lenses for the price of two Zeiss lenses. I like the 15, 25, 35, 50, and 90 mm. Get the fastest 35 and 50 you can afford.

 

[ferider]

Go for a 28/50/90 combo. CV 28/2, Zeiss 50/2 (the "alibi Zeiss lens" - a Hex 50/2 will do just as well ...) and Summicron 90/2 v3.

Best bang for the buck. Cheers,

Roland.

 

[monochromejrnl]

if you have the the Olympus mju then perhaps you should keep it as a backup and go with a 28/50 combo...

for small and discreet 28 consider the CV 28/3.5 for street and for the 50 consider something faster like the ZM 50/1.5 or 50/2 or Nokton 50/1.5... i opted for the Canon 50/1.5 (sonnar) smaller, cheaper and I prefer the image quality to the 50/1.5 nokton and I don't have any confidence issues with focus shift... it also renders quite differently than the 28 which has a more modern look vs the Canon's vintage look...

having said all that, it really depends on what you plan to shoot and what your preferred focal length is... don't do what some of us have spent way too much time and money doing - chasing the magic bullet, none exists and if I've learned anything it's to use what you have and learn to use it well before hunting for the next excuse to buy buy buy...

 

[Roger Hicks]

Buy the Sonnar first.

After a few weeks/months, decide whether you want (a) rather wider (35mm) or (b) quite a lot wider (28mm) or (c) a helluva lot wider (25mm and below).

My favourite outfit on film is 35/75. My wife's is 18/50. As Joe says, with the benefit of lots of experience, the only possible answer is a firm, unequivocal, 'It depends'.

But if you can afford it, as apparently you can, I'd go for ZI lenses instead of Voigtländer. Voigtländer are incredible value for money, and deliver excellent quality. ZI are... nicer.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Merkinz]

WOW! A bundle of excellent comments and good advice! Thanks to everyone 🙂

OK in my mind, I WANT one FAST lens. At least one. And I'm sure of the 50mm focal length so I'll get the ZM 1.5 Sonnar. For the second Lens the CV 28 is a good idea because I'm not totally convinced on that focal length. I don't want piles and piles of lenses because I want to travel light so I might try that. Shoot for a few months and see how it is and then possible reconsider.

Again, thanks for all the comments.