pb908
Well-known
Since last time I opened my IIa to clean (and adjust)RF on this thread
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95070
, I have a great fun with IIa. the result of a test roll showing me everything in great working condition.
Last few days back, my son (2 years old) was playing around in my room and grab the IIa from the desk and dropped it to the floor. Thanks God that he didn't get hurt because of the camera drop.
Unfortunately the camera get some damaged. the filter thread on the lens was bent (but all lens movement OK), and the camera 2'nd curtain won't close properly. it just hangs up somehow in the middle of it's movement. Thinking positively, this was a chance to learn more about my IIa.
so I decided to disassembly again to see what's happen.
following rick's notes on how to open top cover is now piece of cake :
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-62.html
I just need to be careful while putting everything back, specially the shutter button and film counter assembly.
After top cover is opened, then I remove 4 screws to open the front cover. you need to slide this cover up so the hole is released from focus wheel assy :
then I remove the top cover of low speed escapement assy (remove the 4 screws indicated with red arrows). :
then you can see the whole top area of gears. see the way the sync contact connected to 1st curtain gears (it should short it when 1st curtain rest in bottom position). You can see as well the 2 screw I use to adjust RF horizontally :
and then to access the shutter module, we need to remove lens mount, infinity lock bar and focus wheel assy (make sure you put a mark on all gears with lens set to infinity. this will help you during assembly)
Once that done, you need to remove 3 screws holding the shutter (and prism) assy. remove the dust cover on the rewind bar, underneath that dust cover you will need to remove a metal spacer/washer (if you don't remove this, it might scratch your prism). You need to remove the selt timer handle (hold the handle and turn CCW the screw). this is not in the picture.
after you remove the self timer handle, then you can lift carefully the top metal assembly from the chassis (bottom). it will separate
below, you can see the chassis alone. there is a gear not in the picture that may fall out. this connect the gears (of film winding/sprocket) seen on the chassis to the winding gears on the top assy.
below you can see the shutter module alone, I put some note on the mechanism (look like the curtain tensioning system, loosen the screw, rotate the gears, tighten it back..maybe, possible)
below you can see the winding assy. there are gears that connect the curtains and gears to move the winding mechanism. in my case, I don't grease (or use very light oil) whatever gears that move during exposure). if you see there are gears with grease and gears without :
here is the clear picture of the bevel gears from behind :
the gears you see above is connected to the wheel on the top :
OK, now we go to the front. remove firstly the blue screws, then you can lift the prism out. and then remove the red screw (cover screw). then you can pull the cover out and you will see the whole gears from the front.
you can also get the access to clean RF window
on my case, removing gears cover release 2'nd curtain problem. it happen because the cover has some part that bent and touch the bevel gears, this stop bevel gears movement when tension is lesser (when 2nd curtain move almost reaching bottom of chassis). so after fixing the cover, everything went back to normal. you can turn CCW the wheel of 2nd curtain (on the top assy) and you can see that it move freely (2nd curtain will goes up when you move the wheel CCW)
now you can clean all dirt you can see, grease all area you can. in my IIa, it had lot's of rusted area on the top assy, so I need to put WD40 lightly, use the screw driver/pick tool to clean it and i spray contact cleaner to clean them all. I need to spray it in specific direction so the spray don't drop/touch the curtain area.
after waiting for everything to dry, I check the mechanism several time, all the movable part need to move freely. event a small amount of light oil may slowdown the lever that connect slow speed escapement assy to the 2nd curtain. so better to keep all the moving part dry. do some exercise to see if there are oil traps that can disturb exposure process.
so, you need to assemble back in the reverse order : gear cover, prism, install it on the chassis, RF wheel and lens mount (take several trial error to align all gears correctly, the mark on the gear helps a lot!!), adjust RF (if needed). install the slow speed assy cover (watch out for the sync contact, it need to be isolated from any metal, I need to put a new tape to do it), front cover, top cover, winding assy..
still have a homework to do, gluing a new leatherette for my IIa..
So guys, do it if you have guts to try, take your own responsibility !!! remember every step you take, take precaution, memorize all the parts/screw position, use your digital camera to help you remember, etc..
I hope this helps..
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95070
, I have a great fun with IIa. the result of a test roll showing me everything in great working condition.
Last few days back, my son (2 years old) was playing around in my room and grab the IIa from the desk and dropped it to the floor. Thanks God that he didn't get hurt because of the camera drop.
Unfortunately the camera get some damaged. the filter thread on the lens was bent (but all lens movement OK), and the camera 2'nd curtain won't close properly. it just hangs up somehow in the middle of it's movement. Thinking positively, this was a chance to learn more about my IIa.
so I decided to disassembly again to see what's happen.
following rick's notes on how to open top cover is now piece of cake :
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-62.html
I just need to be careful while putting everything back, specially the shutter button and film counter assembly.
After top cover is opened, then I remove 4 screws to open the front cover. you need to slide this cover up so the hole is released from focus wheel assy :
then I remove the top cover of low speed escapement assy (remove the 4 screws indicated with red arrows). :
then you can see the whole top area of gears. see the way the sync contact connected to 1st curtain gears (it should short it when 1st curtain rest in bottom position). You can see as well the 2 screw I use to adjust RF horizontally :
and then to access the shutter module, we need to remove lens mount, infinity lock bar and focus wheel assy (make sure you put a mark on all gears with lens set to infinity. this will help you during assembly)
Once that done, you need to remove 3 screws holding the shutter (and prism) assy. remove the dust cover on the rewind bar, underneath that dust cover you will need to remove a metal spacer/washer (if you don't remove this, it might scratch your prism). You need to remove the selt timer handle (hold the handle and turn CCW the screw). this is not in the picture.
after you remove the self timer handle, then you can lift carefully the top metal assembly from the chassis (bottom). it will separate
below, you can see the chassis alone. there is a gear not in the picture that may fall out. this connect the gears (of film winding/sprocket) seen on the chassis to the winding gears on the top assy.
below you can see the shutter module alone, I put some note on the mechanism (look like the curtain tensioning system, loosen the screw, rotate the gears, tighten it back..maybe, possible)
below you can see the winding assy. there are gears that connect the curtains and gears to move the winding mechanism. in my case, I don't grease (or use very light oil) whatever gears that move during exposure). if you see there are gears with grease and gears without :
here is the clear picture of the bevel gears from behind :
the gears you see above is connected to the wheel on the top :
OK, now we go to the front. remove firstly the blue screws, then you can lift the prism out. and then remove the red screw (cover screw). then you can pull the cover out and you will see the whole gears from the front.
you can also get the access to clean RF window
on my case, removing gears cover release 2'nd curtain problem. it happen because the cover has some part that bent and touch the bevel gears, this stop bevel gears movement when tension is lesser (when 2nd curtain move almost reaching bottom of chassis). so after fixing the cover, everything went back to normal. you can turn CCW the wheel of 2nd curtain (on the top assy) and you can see that it move freely (2nd curtain will goes up when you move the wheel CCW)
now you can clean all dirt you can see, grease all area you can. in my IIa, it had lot's of rusted area on the top assy, so I need to put WD40 lightly, use the screw driver/pick tool to clean it and i spray contact cleaner to clean them all. I need to spray it in specific direction so the spray don't drop/touch the curtain area.
after waiting for everything to dry, I check the mechanism several time, all the movable part need to move freely. event a small amount of light oil may slowdown the lever that connect slow speed escapement assy to the 2nd curtain. so better to keep all the moving part dry. do some exercise to see if there are oil traps that can disturb exposure process.
so, you need to assemble back in the reverse order : gear cover, prism, install it on the chassis, RF wheel and lens mount (take several trial error to align all gears correctly, the mark on the gear helps a lot!!), adjust RF (if needed). install the slow speed assy cover (watch out for the sync contact, it need to be isolated from any metal, I need to put a new tape to do it), front cover, top cover, winding assy..
still have a homework to do, gluing a new leatherette for my IIa..
So guys, do it if you have guts to try, take your own responsibility !!! remember every step you take, take precaution, memorize all the parts/screw position, use your digital camera to help you remember, etc..
I hope this helps..
Thankyou for posting these detailed pictures.
I use two ice cube trays, fill them in order with parts. Makes remebering the reverse order a bit easier.
I use two ice cube trays, fill them in order with parts. Makes remebering the reverse order a bit easier.
pb908
Well-known
Thanks Brian,
yes, an ice cube will be helpful, but as I don't have any, I just strecth a tape on the bench, with the sticky part on the top, and put the screws there in order. Just emergency case..
yes, an ice cube will be helpful, but as I don't have any, I just strecth a tape on the bench, with the sticky part on the top, and put the screws there in order. Just emergency case..
Vickko
Veteran
I just saw this thread. Wonderful detailed photos. I just bought a IIa with known sluggish 2nd curtain. That is fixed now, but 1/500 and 1/1250 sec cap when I fire the shutter. Don't have time now to do full tear-down, but it is really good to know what I'm up against.
Vick
Vick
farlymac
PF McFarland
Great notations on the photos. Thanks for a job well done.
PF
PF
Highway 61
Revisited
Depending on what the reason for that is, it might just be either an easy fix or totally impossible to fix for good, or it may get fixed for a while and after some weeks of "shelf resting test" the shutter caps again at these speeds.
Even after having done all what should be done including ultrasonic cleaning of the shutter drivetrain shafts in particular.
Good luck with yours.
Elmar Lang
Well-known
Excellent and clear pictures indeed!
One of my Contax IIa, besides perfectly working, has the fastidious defect of the shutter curtain not opening at 1/500 and 1/1000.
I hope this would be an easy job to be fixed...
E.L.
One of my Contax IIa, besides perfectly working, has the fastidious defect of the shutter curtain not opening at 1/500 and 1/1000.
I hope this would be an easy job to be fixed...
E.L.
Dralowid
Michael
Great stuff! I only wish someone had done soething similar for the Contax I particularly with reference the shutter speed/film advance knob on the front...
Michael
Michael
Vickko
Veteran
Fixed the capping. Rick Oleson's page was extremely helpful:
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-62.html
Lubed the shaft for the first curtain and presto-bingo it worked!
Vick
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-62.html
Lubed the shaft for the first curtain and presto-bingo it worked!
Vick
Highway 61
Revisited
Yes but now have it resting on a shelf for one month and on 2012/02/27 check if it still works... and get back to us then.
Mine worked after that repair, but stopped working after a while etc etc.
Even a deep cleaning of that shaft using an ultrasonic tube didn't fix it permanently.
Fortunately, my second IIa doesn't have this problem.
The main issue is that this shaft housing is riveted so it's quite impossible to get inside it and clean the housing off its corrosion and dirt...
Dumb design on an otherwise very beautiful camera. Same for how the selftimer works :bang:.
Ah and before somebody jumps in : I have seen several IIa bodies serviced by Henry Scherer already on which that problem hadn't been permanently cured, either...
S.H.
Picture taker
(...)
The main issue is that this shaft housing is riveted so it's quite impossible to get inside it and clean the housing off its corrosion and dirt...
Dumb design on an otherwise very beautiful camera. Same for how the selftimer works :bang:.
Ah and before somebody jumps in : I have seen several IIa bodies serviced by Henry Scherer already on which that problem hadn't been permanently cured, either...
Did the prewar II/III have the same design problem?
Highway 61
Revisited
Not at all. The prewar shutter has its own infamous ribbons problem, but other than that, there is nothing to be mentioned (but for the shutter curtain blades ends very thin leather strips maybe, but thay can be easily replaced if done very carefully). Once new shutter ribbons are installed, and the 1st curtain roller main spring checked and properly tensioned, the camera will work till the next ribbons failure (assume the ribbons will break once every decade if you use the camera on a regular basis).
And the selftimer has a normal design on the prewar Contax : it triggers the shutter after the clockwork has made its journey, it doesn't hold the already triggered shutter for a while like the postwar selftimer does (which enhances that darn capping problem at high speeds).
And the selftimer has a normal design on the prewar Contax : it triggers the shutter after the clockwork has made its journey, it doesn't hold the already triggered shutter for a while like the postwar selftimer does (which enhances that darn capping problem at high speeds).
S.H.
Picture taker
I knew about the ribbons in the prewar shutter, for me it is like changing tires, you do that every now and then. But I thought the postwar shutter was "better", more rugged.
Turns out that prewar bodies are better shooters in the long run after all (I know someone who can properly maintain them, change ribbons, ...), don't you think?
For the selftimer, holding a triggered shutter sound like a complicated design
Turns out that prewar bodies are better shooters in the long run after all (I know someone who can properly maintain them, change ribbons, ...), don't you think?
For the selftimer, holding a triggered shutter sound like a complicated design
RT_Panther
Member
Wow!......
Highway 61
Revisited
I knew about the ribbons in the prewar shutter, for me it is like changing tires, you do that every now and then. But I thought the postwar shutter was "better", more rugged.
Turns out that prewar bodies are better shooters in the long run after all (I know someone who can properly maintain them, change ribbons, ...), don't you think?
For the selftimer, holding a triggered shutter sound like a complicated design
Yes, I have replaced the shutter ribbons on several Contax II bodies and this is not that complcated once you've got it. Heavily time consuming but that's all.
The postwar selftimer design is inherent to how the new shutter geartrain works, with that design a classic external selftimer wouldn't have done it because there is no secondary catch to trigger the shutter from the inside of the camera (on the prewar shutter this is the big L-shape lever located on the right side of the shutter box).
Yet some adjustments are possible, for instance having the whole selftimer unit get as up as possible before very tightly securing it with its three screws on the shutter box, so that when the seltimer catch holds the first curtain, the first curtain hasn't moved for more than a fraction of millimeter yet.
But it's like lubricating the first curtain shafts - it's often a fix which doesn't hold well over time, because the parts involved tend to slightly bend themselves, so that after a while the problem is back.
If the selftimer unit is installed too low on the shutter box, it holds the first curtain when this one has gone down for too long a distance already, and as a result when the selftimer ends its journey and releases the first curtain, the second curtain follows the first one too quickly, and caps onto the first curtain almost immediatly, and the shutter travels fully closed at 1/1250, 1/500, and sometimes even at 1/250.
All in all - dumb design. Typically, on any Contax IIa or IIIa, the selftimer musn't be used at speeds above 1/100.
Vickko
Veteran
Hmm. It's been sitting, still apart. I'll give it a try soon.
Vick
Vick
Yes but now have it resting on a shelf for one month and on 2012/02/27 check if it still works... and get back to us then.
...
Highway 61
Revisited
Fingers crossed - sincerely.
davidphillip
Member
self-timer at high speeds
self-timer at high speeds
A propos avoiding using the self-timer at the highest speeds, the instruction book which comes with the camera clearly states that the self-timer should not be used w/ 1/500 and 1/1250. I guess they knew it was a dumb design from the beginning.
davidphillip
self-timer at high speeds
A propos avoiding using the self-timer at the highest speeds, the instruction book which comes with the camera clearly states that the self-timer should not be used w/ 1/500 and 1/1250. I guess they knew it was a dumb design from the beginning.
davidphillip
dubya
Established
Many thanks to the OP for the nicely detailed pics and written instructions. The IIa color dial I'm working on thanks you too (it's working great now!).
However, I'm hoping someone may be able to tell me the correct placement of the small steel washer (or shim) I found laying in the bottom of the body shell after removing the shutter housing. I watched it fall but can't for the life of me figure out from whence it came. It's very thin and about 6mm OD, 4mm ID.
Many thanks,
W
However, I'm hoping someone may be able to tell me the correct placement of the small steel washer (or shim) I found laying in the bottom of the body shell after removing the shutter housing. I watched it fall but can't for the life of me figure out from whence it came
. It's very thin and about 6mm OD, 4mm ID.Many thanks,
W
dubya
Established
I'm pretty sure I answered my own question so I thought I'd follow up. The only logical place I can find for it is behind the infinity lock release bar pivot point. It fits over the post on the shell and in the recess on the back side of the bar perfectly. I can even imagine the path it took to the bottom of the shell when it fell off.
It would've really helped if was paying more attention when I took it apart... (no wonder that's the number one rule!)
It would've really helped if was paying more attention when I took it apart... (no wonder that's the number one rule!)