Contax IIa vs Leica IIIa as P&S for street.

[Ste_S]

Considering picking up a classic rangefinder for street to use as a P&S (zone focus, set average exposure and let film latitude take the strain).

Screw mount Leica or Contax are within my budget, M Leicas are more than I would like to pay for a camera.

In particular a Leica IIIa w/ 5cm f2 Summar or Contax IIa w/ 5cm f2 Sonnar are within my reach at the moment. Both from reputable retailers with 6 month guarantee.

However the Contax is reported as having sticky slow shutter speeds whilst I'm always put off by the faff of having to trim the film leader with the Leica. Not so convenient if I need to buy fresh film when I've run out.
With both cameras I'm also wary of them becoming repair/service money pits, especially with the Contax where servicing may be a problem here in the UK.

Thoughts ?

 

[Filter Factor]

Hello,

Have you considered other camera models besides the ones you have listed? I too would worry they may become money pits. Contax servicing is available throughout Europe but not inexpensively.

In your shoes I would consider the later screw-mount Canons, or the earlier Leica-clone Canons, or other LTM clones. Or perhaps even an SLR.... Is being a rangefinder a must-have? I use my F6 for street photography and it is a tremendous tool and a great bargain in today's market.

Cheers, Robert

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Everybody has a free opinion, worth the price, but here’s mine as an owner and user of both. They would both be fine, and the downsides you mention are more theoretical internet chatter than real obstacles, imo.
The 50/2 Sonnar is sharper than the Summar, and yields a nicer result, imo. Lenses were the one biggest advantage Contax had, in the referenced time period. But, it’s a personal preference.
Trimming leaders is both easy, really easy, and takes only a few seconds. Then you’ve got 36 more frames to shoot. If that’s a problem, it’s one beyond my understanding. Has always sounded more like a feeble whine for help.
Slow shutter speeds on the Contax II being problematic in real life on a working camera, that’s news to me. Both these cameras work without issue if they have been maintained, and neither one works if they haven’t, so nothing to choose from there.

Servicing might be an issue if trying to get it done locally. Best to get one that’s recently had it done, and done correctly, than buy one and find out it had been cheerfully misrepresented by the seller. Been there. Either camera, if it’s in good shape, should stay that way for a long time.
Good luck, and have fun, no matter what you decide.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Check if C lens has visible distance scale and you could focus by lens.
Or you might end up telling stories here how street is done at f11 and by fixed focus.
🙂
I'm with 50mm lens on my Leica right now and it is not street lens, IMO.

 

[Ste_S]

Hello,

Have you considered other camera models besides the ones you have listed? I too would worry they may become money pits. Contax servicing is available throughout Europe but not inexpensively.

In your shoes I would consider the later screw-mount Canons, or the earlier Leica-clone Canons, or other LTM clones. Or perhaps even an SLR.... Is being a rangefinder a must-have? I use my F6 for street photography and it is a tremendous tool and a great bargain in today's market.

Cheers, Robert

Funnily enough I use an F4s at the moment. It's perfect for night - the heft/dampening of it means I can get away with shooting slower shutter speeds than I can on other SLRs, and the matrix meter never misses a beat.
However one of the plusses of the F4s - it's weight and size is also one of it's downsides.

Fancied using something a bit lighter, especially on longer days in daylight hours. I could just use another SLR (my sensible head is telling me to just use a Nikon FE/FM series), but fancied trying a rangefinder as I've not used one before.

 

[Arbitrarium]

I'm currently enamoured with my Canon VI-L so I'm going to recommend that.

Fastest rangefinder I've used so far, so a good choice for street. The viewfinder is parallax corrected and 1/1 scale so you can frame with both eyes open. I've got a really smooth Jupiter 8 attached that I can focus with one finger, making the whole thing a one-handed operation if needs be. Finder can switch to 35mm view if you want a more standard street FOV.

Both Barnack and Contax finders are likely a bit too pokey for quick street photos if you ask me. Not forgetting how heavy Contax are too...

 

[xayraa33]

All are good, the Contax IIa and Leica IIIa were first class 35mm cameras of the 1930s and 1950s and both will do the job.

Things to consider is parts availability and the cost of a CLA down the road, and classic lens pricing (German and Japanese classic lenses) should you need to add some lenses later on.

The Barnack Leicas have the Contax IIa beat on these two factors.

 

[presspass]

I can't speak about the Contax since I've never shot one. I do shoot a iiia regularly with a Summar and it's fine. You will probably need an auxiliary finder, either the Leica one or the one sold by Voightlander. With zone focus, the auxiliary finder truly makes it a point and shoot. You will also need a lens hood. The adjustable one works as well as the big Summar-specific hood. No matter what you buy, you are at the top of a very slippery GAS slope.

 

[mpaniagua]

I own and use Leicas LTM. Don't own a Contax but a Kiev with 35/50/85 lens.

Thinking about them as a street shooter, I would go the Contax route. I think Contax/Kiev are faster than Leica because the rangefinder/viewfinder are one window. Ergonomics may need some adjustment but they are a joy to use after a couple of hours.

Best regards

Marcelo.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Leica didn't catch up with Contax until the M3 was released 20 years after their II/III. The M3 surpassed Zeiss in certain respects, in a few respects (Eg rangefinder accuracy) Leica have never surpassed Contax. You should bear in mind the very strong pro-Leica stance of most forum members here, objectively Contax hosed the Barnack Leicas in usability and optical performance. Why do you think Amedeo Contax adapters for Leica are so popular?

By all means get whichever camera you find easiest to use, it's a personal preference of course. Perhaps unusually, I came to top flight rangefinders via Contax, first. Lately I've been using a IIIg a bit and, yes, it's a lovely little camera but my Contax IIs kick its butt for ease of use (the separate window for focusing is small and pokey and a PITA). Separate dials for slow speeds. Rotating shutter dial. Loading one's a joke.

There are good reasons why the M3 fixed all these issues.

I'd take a II over a IIa personally, but a IIa over any screw mount Leica unless I had to fix it. I don't mind working on IIs, the IIa has some retrograde features...

 

[David Hughes]

I'll second that comment about the Leica II and add that the Summar is the hardest to find in good to very good condition. Also, do you really want an uncoated lens for street work?

FWIW, I own and use, from time to time, a pre-war Contax II and I've spent so much on it that I shall probably take it to my grave, as the alternatives losing hundreds if I sold it...

Regards, David

 

[Pioneer]

I have used the Leica III a lot on the street and have enjoyed using several different lenses. This includes the Nikkor 3.5cm/2.5, the Color Skopar 35/2.5 and the old standby, the Elmar 50/3.5. They all seem to work very well but I would recommend going with a later, coated Elmar if you decide to go that direction. Obviously both the Nikkor and the Color Skopar are coated. Of them all the Color Skopar is the newest and is also the most resistant to flare.

I have also recently begun using a Kiev 4 along with a Color Skopar 35/2.5 or Jupiter 8, and find it to be just as nice on the street. If I find one at the right price I may give the Jupiter 12 a try as well. I also own a Snapshot Skopar 25mm lens but am not as comfortable with that field of view as I am with the 35mm.

 

[lxmike]

i shoot regularly with a IIIg and a IIIc, strangely l prefer the IIIc especially when combined with SBOOI

 

[Peter Jennings]

Whichever camera you choose, pair it with a good external finder like the ones from Leitz or Voigtlander. They make framing easy and pleasurable.

 

[Archlich]

A Canon P is much easier to use , much cheaper and still very nicely built.

 

[JeffS7444]

Wonderful thing about the Leica is that it's small and it handles pretty good all things considered. Either trim film leaders in advance or carry a small pair of scissors; you don't need to be precise about it.

 

[Rob-F]

Whichever camera you choose, pair it with a good external finder like the ones from Leitz or Voigtlander. They make framing easy and pleasurable.

I second this. An external finder makes things a lot better with a Barnack. Aside from the obvious benefit of having a much better finder, it also lowers the camera so it doesn't hide your face, which I think is less disturbing for the people passing by.

Secondly: It is an RFF tradition to suggest an entirely different camera than the one being asked about. So: how about a Minolta CLE with 40mm or 28mm Rokkor? You will get auto-exposure--off the film, no less--and a better viewfinder! And a 40 or a 28 is better than a 50 for street work. Of course, it's not a Leica . . .

 

[Bingley]

I've got a Leica IIIc and a Canon IVSB2. Both are really nice for street photography. I don't have a Summar but if the sample you're looking at is fairly clean there's no reason not to use it.

I recently acquired a post-war Contax IIIa with a Zeiss Sonnar 50/2.0 lens. The slow speeds on the camera are slow but the rest are OK. In use, I'm finding the Contax a little fussy compared to the IIIc, although that may simply be my lack of familiarity with the Contax. But what really blew me away was the Sonnar that came with the camera. What a beautiful lens!! I love the way it renders (I'm kind of a Sonnar fan anyway) and my sample is very clean. I like the lens so much I bought an Amedeo adapter so I can shoot it on my M mount cameras.

 

[goamules]

Continuing the tradition of recommending something other than what you asked, did you consider a Retina? Their viewfinders are bigger in some models, their lever wind is fast, their leaf shutter quiet, they fold up and stick in your pocket. I shot a roll through a new IIc with the 50/2.8 and captured my running dog. Not sure I'd get it with the tiny Barnack viewfinders.

 

[presspass]

Don't worry about the uncoated lenses. They are excellent with black and white film - good shadow detail and the lower contrast helps keeping the highlights from blocking up. A clean Summar is an excellent lens. Pair it with the amazingly tiny 35 3.5 Elmar and a very available 90 4.0 Elmar and you have a very portable outfit that will serve you for decades.