Context is vital

D

desmo

Guest
I look at many photos posted here and try to comment on as many as is feasible.
However, it is quite often hard to understand the motivation for some images and for others that look interesting, we are left to guess at the context and therefore the meaning or lesson contained within the image.

I'd love to see more context posted with photos here so I can get a sense of the 'value' of the image.

Eye candy is fine but context lends us the opportunity to understand.
 
You could really say, that all photos require you to know the context in order to understand them better. Some need less than others. I think most snapshots need too much context, otherwise you would fall back on the old "here's another of some people" kind of comment. But yes, it would be nice to have at least some context to help with the commenting. And after all, sometimes the picture has some great stories behind it, enriching the experience for all.

Drew
 
I make that comment having viewd this excellent shot: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=26084&cat=5638
Without context it is merely a snapshot of some people, well composed and exposed perhaps but it has no meaning for me and offers me no understanding of the people within.

Quite often, scenics and abstracts need no context for appreciation to be complete but shots of people often do.

Dracotype said:
You could really say, that all photos require you to know the context in order to understand them better. Some need less than others. I think most snapshots need too much context, otherwise you would fall back on the old "here's another of some people" kind of comment. But yes, it would be nice to have at least some context to help with the commenting. And after all, sometimes the picture has some great stories behind it, enriching the experience for all.

Drew
 
desmo, are you saying that you think the shots you've seen should of been taken with a wider lens or the photographer should of taken a step back or two ?

Dave H
 
I flip-flop depending on the image though if things are explained before hand I feel I've been pigeon-holed into having a specific point of view.

I like to learn the context only after I've spent some time with the image. Many images are sufficiently strong to need no context. Some benefit but also some I feel are weakened from context. Regardless, I don't think a contextual explanation suddenly transforms an image from a poor one to a good one.

I like to read a Shakespeare play a few times before I ever see a performance - it's amazing how different the two interpretations (on stage and in my head) are!
 
No, I'm saying that shots such as the one i reference look great but without some contextual explanation, they lack more than they offer.

What is the foggy look?
Why are they all out there?
Is the photographer an outsider looking in or an insider looking at?
these and other questions could be answered easily by the photographer and provide a greater appreciation of the image.

My comments have nothing to do with the technical aspects of photography

Dave H said:
desmo, are you saying that you think the shots you've seen should of been taken with a wider lens or the photographer should of taken a step back or two ?

Dave H
 
most art, be it photography, painting or other, is much easier to understand and appreciate with some background about the situation or even the artist.. I learned that when attending a Vincent van Gogh exhibit a few years ago and opted for the 'listening tour'.. where you listen to commentary on a portable MP3 player as you view specific works.. the background information about van Gogh was fascinating and explained many aspects of his work, including various repeating themes, as well as how his work was influenced by his contemporaries

unfortunately, we aren't afforded the opportunity to learn those things about every artist and every image.. but sometimes it's best to be left to wonder as to why the photographer chose a particular subject or view of it.. interpretation is a great deal of what art is
 
I often think photo titles are trite and the same goes with paint art.
However, the image offered as an example seems to be in the photojournalist genre and if so, relies on context.

I don't want to guess everything, that kind of assumption usually leads to misinterpretation.

For instance, I could suggest that the shot in question is of poor Chechen refugees waiting outside in the freezing cold or in a soup of pollution.
Maybe the Russian govt is gassing these people?

Yes, that is ridiculous but it is just the kind of misperception that people leap to. After all, without any clues, we base our perception on our own cultural values and lessons and not on the truth or facts of the imagery.

aterlecki said:
I flip-flop depending on the image though if things are explained before hand I feel I've been pigeon-holed into having a specific point of view.

I like to learn the context only after I've spent some time with the image. Many images are sufficiently strong to need no context. Some benefit but also some I feel are weakened from context. Regardless, I don't think a contextual explanation suddenly transforms an image from a poor one to a good one.

I like to read a Shakespeare play a few times before I ever see a performance - it's amazing how different the two interpretations (on stage and in my head) are!
 
I hope I'm not boring you with this topic. I'm a traveller, a photographer and a student of human society/culture. I also hold a degree in applied human communication (BAC) and the subjects; perception and context, are vital to my understanding of my world.
 
I looked at a couple of your images and without context or titles, this is my perception:

1. Dracotype http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v699/Dzerzhinski/Towards.jpg
serious cavity inside a tooth (molar). the photographer didn't have the right equipment and the shot is way out of focus. ;-)

2. Dave H http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=21004&cat=500&ppuser=2082
these are unemployed bums waiting for someone to mug. they should join society and get a damn job. ;-)

Joe Friday http://focusingfluid.blogspot.com/ Joe is a drunk and has a food fetish, he thinks of little else. ;-)

see what i mean?
 
desmo said:
I hope I'm not boring you with this topic. I'm a traveller, a photographer and a student of human society/culture. I also hold a degree in applied human communication (BAC) and the subjects; perception and context, are vital to my understanding of my world.
Not boring at at all! I'd prefer to spend a few hours down the pub with such a subject though. It's very much a 5-pint type of discussion (apologies to Sherlock Holmes)! I find an online forum is very limiting for discussing things like this in depth.
 
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desmo said:
I often think photo titles are trite and the same goes with paint art.
However, the image offered as an example seems to be in the photojournalist genre and if so, relies on context.

I don't want to guess everything, that kind of assumption usually leads to misinterpretation.

For instance, I could suggest that the shot in question is of poor Chechen refugees waiting outside in the freezing cold or in a soup of pollution.
Maybe the Russian govt is gassing these people?

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=26084&cat=5638

.......

Actually I thought it was the morning after the night before's turnip and bean harvest all you can eat festival! 😀
 
That's a wonderful explanation of your perceptions RJ but of course they are only your perceptions and may bear no resemblence to the truth.

You assume they are peasants; that might just be an insult to them. You use words and phrases that describe the emotions and personal culture of the people within like "sombre", "working forearms", "gloom", "choking her own words", "she refrains from speech", "a suppressed act" and more.
your observations are based on your own cultural interpretation and not theirs; you might be right but equally you might be completely barking mad.

In our world of war, intolerance, mistrust, racism and hatred, all our misperceptions are fuelled by our ignorance and that of those around us. In order to break free from the chains of ignorance that bind us to our 'isms', we should actively seek enlightenment and understanding.

I do like just looking sometimes and sometimes find attempts at 'art speak' to be ridiculous but I welcome the context offered by the people photographed or the photographer him/herself.

The light; it's so beautiful, the darkness; it scares me and makes me paranoid. 🙄

RJ- said:
Desmo,

I understand your point and sometimes sympathise with this perspective. And then sometimes not. It is true that an audience often wants more than the images, particularly in an exhibit, whereas the photographer holds an idealism about the power of imaging, akin to the cliche that a photograph speaks a few thousand words.

I did not know the gallery feature existed, and Myakish's excellent work even less. Yet on studying the image, I can sense why the power in the imaging explicit. It moves me and when I reflect on it, here's why.


The aesthetic of the image:

1. I am struck at how dark and recessed the foreground subjects are: these s are ordinary women, perhaps peasants. I imagine this because of their working forearms, clothing and expressions. Tthe sombre tones of these peasant women conveys that sense of gloom and darkness against a lighter zone VI of mist, perhaps fog, perhaps smoke.

2. The composition intrigues me: as my eye meets the image, I'm suddenly struck by a woman's hand arising towards her own mouth, choking her own words. She refrains from speech, in a suppressed act and stands as a subject, stout and portly in the middle of the image. Her body language is connected by a rising arm and mirrored by her fellow worker (these are not men, yet appearing to be doing a man's chore by western cultural values). Her companion has a different personality; her face is engaged and busy with an open mouth, seemingly indifferent to the mute expression of the first woman.

3. How intriguing that the trees and buildings collapses me from left to right, back towards the women. This is the strength of the composition: foregrounding the sombre tones of the two peasants, against the lighter mist in the background. This is why the peasant women centre my attention: it enables me to pay more attention to the personal expressions of the subjects.

4. As a photographer, I infer this is a wide-angle lens, used in order to arrive at the image's composition from an intimate distance. It achieves a closer appreciation of the
subject, and in return, conveying a sense of closeness to a sense of sombriety or despair of the first woman, to the contrast of the next..

The woman who covers her mouth - says nothing - her words are recapitulated in silence. It gives rise to an ominous mood in the image for me. Why should the photographer say anymore than his subject? Who are we like most? The woman who holds her tongue and possibly private grief, or her companion who talks away indifferent to her expression?

Strangely the image conveys a sense of death or gloom to me: I even wonder if the first woman is holding a shovel to bury someone, affected by the smoke in the air, or suffocating for freedom from the menial chore and man's labour. It is not empirical evidence I search for in the image: I do not need to know if this is fact or not: the image generates that mood of gloom which is so well wrought in a seemingly simple" snapshot".

It is that ominous mood which the image evokes - that moves me. If there was a lengthy essay written underneath the image like this, it would close down what I sense from the image. Do you see the image in your own way, after I've belted out mine? It becomes harder for an audience not to become "shaped" by the words, instead of working out his own relationship to the image.

Granted, that may alienate some viewers; perhaps we look at too many images, suffering from supersaturation without being able to absorb meaning anymore.


"Without context it is merely a snapshot of some people, well composed and exposed perhaps but it has no meaning for me and offers me no understanding of the people within."


I don't know if what I've said helps you to reconsider the image. Perhaps there are images which move us differently because of our own experiences,, and therefore appreciation of other cultures or images, which at first can seem so far removed from resonating with our own.

Regards,
 
Just for the sake of discussion, there is the argument that a good photograph is a good photograph and requires no explanation or context. A corollary is: a whole bunch of verbage isn't going to make a weak photograph any better than it is. I get really tired of the art-mumbo-gumbo-speak that tries to elevate an image beyond its worth.

That would make a good thread: heard any good art mumbo-gumbo-speak?
 
that's true but of course even in person we misinterpret all the time. my experience of internet chat is that it is a medium fraught with potentially disastrous problems but sometimes the only chance we'll get to talk.

a 5 pint conversation? i don't drink; perhaps you could get drunk and i could toke on a reefer man (bet that one gets some 'misperceptions' going! 😀

aterlecki said:
Not boring at at all! I'd prefer to spend a few hours down the pub with such a subject though. It's very much a 5-pint type of discussion (apologies to Sherlock Holmes)! I find an online forum is very limiting for discussing things like this in depth.
 
That's true Frank but context need not be art speak or mumbo jumbo.

the 'artist' who shot the image i referenced might tell me that these were his neighbours and they were in the habit of standing outside each morning for a bit of gossip. great context and no pretentious artspeak.

FrankS said:
Just for the sake of discussion, there is the argument that a good photograph is a good photograph and requires no explanation or context. A corollary is: a whole bunch of verbage isn't going to make a weak photograph any better than it is. I get really tired of the art-mumbo-gumbo-speak that tries to elevate an image beyond its worth.

That would make a good thread: heard any good art mumbo-gumbo-speak?
 
And besides, since when is the word "peasants" an insult? It simply means "people of the land" as does the term "farmers".

Not every picture requires commentary and context. In fact, most times, the picture should speak for itself. You know, be "worth a thousand words"!
 
'reductionist' ha!ha! i'm not trying to reduce at all, i'm trying to illuminate and fill in the gaps that i'd screw up all by myself.

i appreciated your loverly prose RJ, I wish I could write like that. However, I am merely a simple photographer and seeker of truth and don't want to create a safe false reality for myself.

RJ- said:
Desmo,

I think you're absolutely right: this is the danger of 'critique', particularly reductionist critique
like yours:

It says nothing about the image and more about yourself.

Good luck.
 
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