bence8810
Well-known
Hello,
I am brand new to the Darkroom and am slowly (read quickly) building up my mobile darkroom that'll operate over my bathtub at the hours my dear wife approves of.
The last thing missing are the contrast filters. I know they are important as I've used it in a pro darkroom that I visited twice already but I don't know what to get for my enlarger.
In the darkroom I was before the filter (if I recall it) was below the enlarger lens. Now on my LPL 3301D enlarger, I have a dedicated drawer for the filter between the glass dome (condenser?) and the enlarger lens. It's roughly about 7,5cm or 3inch on each sides where the filter sheet would go.
The filters I used in the Pro darkroom were little cassettes I slid into a rail.
What do I need to get for my enlarger? Also, I'd like to stay on budget if possible. Used filters are ok?
Thanks for any tips.
Ben
I am brand new to the Darkroom and am slowly (read quickly) building up my mobile darkroom that'll operate over my bathtub at the hours my dear wife approves of.
The last thing missing are the contrast filters. I know they are important as I've used it in a pro darkroom that I visited twice already but I don't know what to get for my enlarger.
In the darkroom I was before the filter (if I recall it) was below the enlarger lens. Now on my LPL 3301D enlarger, I have a dedicated drawer for the filter between the glass dome (condenser?) and the enlarger lens. It's roughly about 7,5cm or 3inch on each sides where the filter sheet would go.
The filters I used in the Pro darkroom were little cassettes I slid into a rail.
What do I need to get for my enlarger? Also, I'd like to stay on budget if possible. Used filters are ok?
Thanks for any tips.
Ben
bence8810
Well-known
And in case this enlarger isn't known much outside of Japan, this is what it looks like and where the filter should go - me thinks.
Thanks
Ben
Thanks
Ben
rlouzan
Well-known
Hi Ben,
You have to buy a 3 1/2 x 3 1/2 "multigrade resin filter kit (#00 - #5) for use above the lens.
The filter brand isn't important ... but expect small contrast variations. Used filters are OK, but they they might be slightly faded.
Regards,
Robert
You have to buy a 3 1/2 x 3 1/2 "multigrade resin filter kit (#00 - #5) for use above the lens.
The filter brand isn't important ... but expect small contrast variations. Used filters are OK, but they they might be slightly faded.
Regards,
Robert
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Enlargers of that size usually have 8.9 cm square filter trays, but some have the camera standard 7.5 cm square. Ilford Multigrade filters come in 8.9x8.9cm only, you are supposed to trim them down (with scissors or a xacto knife) if you need 7.5cm square.
rlouzan
Well-known
I recommend resin filters, and you can always measure the filter drawer before buying them.
rlouzan
Well-known
Yes, the filters you need are 7.5cm Square (3")
http://www.khbphotografix.com/LPL/LPL3301D.htm
http://www.khbphotografix.com/LPL/LPL3301D.htm
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Who is making variable contrast resin filters these days? I only know of Ilford and Paterson - but both make gels only.
Dwig
Well-known
Neither make true gels (gelatine filters); they make either acetate or polyester sheets.
In holders like the one in the OP's pictures, rigid filters are generally a better choice. Thin film filters tend to sag. In an old 4x5 enlarger that I used in decades past, the narrow edge frame offered too little support for thin film filters. I added a thin clear plexiglass sheet to support the thin film filters.
rlouzan
Well-known
I don't have my VC resin filters at hand, but I think they were made by Ilford or Oriental. I purchased them several years ago from B&H. The used camera dept./ebay ... is probably the best bet.
Polyester filter don't last nearly as long.
Polyester filter don't last nearly as long.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
There probably are variations to that. I once (some time in the eighties) had small acetates from Ilford. The more recent (that may still mean ten to twelve years) 15x15 Ilfords I have around quite obviously are gels.
bence8810
Well-known
Thank you all for the responses.
Reading more I now see there are two kinds of mounting. Above the lens which is what my holder is for and below the lens for which I'd need an extra rail.
What are the advantages? Seems like using the rail is simpler, those little casettes slide in and out easy. Can I mount something below my lens or with my enlarger this is the only option to get the sheets?
I found this, would they work?
http://m.ebay.com/itm/231320444311?nav=SEARCH
Thanks
Ben
Reading more I now see there are two kinds of mounting. Above the lens which is what my holder is for and below the lens for which I'd need an extra rail.
What are the advantages? Seems like using the rail is simpler, those little casettes slide in and out easy. Can I mount something below my lens or with my enlarger this is the only option to get the sheets?
I found this, would they work?
http://m.ebay.com/itm/231320444311?nav=SEARCH
Thanks
Ben
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Below the lens is more vulnerable to scratches, and will often interfere with the red (paper alignment preview) filter - usually it is considered a solution for enlargers that don't have a filter tray (i.e. bottom end ones, plus most enlargers with a colour head).
maddoc
... likes film again.
You can get the Ilford Multigrade sheet filter set (Yodobashi Camera has it in stock I think) and cut the sheets to the correct size using a x-acto knife. The filter holder from Ilford to be mounted together with the lens is OK with respect to the red filter of the 3301d (I have the same enlarger) but your lens choice will be limited, large enlarger lenses won`t fit or aperture becomes difficult to set.
rlouzan
Well-known
Hi Ben,
Yes, that'll do. Above the lens is best, but below is probably easier for split grade printing.
Regards,
Robert
Yes, that'll do. Above the lens is best, but below is probably easier for split grade printing.
Regards,
Robert
Dwig
Well-known
Above the lens is generally the best choice.
When filters are mounted below the lens they can reduce image quality. The filter must be of optical quality (many/most are not) and any surface reflection can cause flare. Also, the filters must be kept perfectly clean and scratch free.
When mounted above the negative there is no risk to image quality.
bence8810
Well-known
Hi there,
I have ordered the sheet filters for the drawer but now I am facing another difficulty.
My lamp is too bright and the exposure times thus too short which makes dodging and burning nearly impossible.
I have at least two choices. Buy an ND filter for the drawer but then where does my contrast filter go? Or ND in the tray and I buy below lens mountable filters?
Or I buy a weaker bulb but one isn't available in Japan so I'd have to order.
Any suggestions? Can I stack the ND and contrast filters in the drawer?
Thanks,
Ben
I have ordered the sheet filters for the drawer but now I am facing another difficulty.
My lamp is too bright and the exposure times thus too short which makes dodging and burning nearly impossible.
I have at least two choices. Buy an ND filter for the drawer but then where does my contrast filter go? Or ND in the tray and I buy below lens mountable filters?
Or I buy a weaker bulb but one isn't available in Japan so I'd have to order.
Any suggestions? Can I stack the ND and contrast filters in the drawer?
Thanks,
Ben
rlouzan
Well-known
Yes, you can also use a piece of 1/8" milk white lexan/plexiglass, opal glass, Rosco full white or half white, tracing paper, baking paper ...
Can I stack the ND and contrast filters in the drawer?
Thanks,
Ben[/QUOTE]
Can I stack the ND and contrast filters in the drawer?
Thanks,
Ben[/QUOTE]
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Bence,
from a contrast-altering point of view, it doesnt really matter where you put the filter.
Its only task is to change the color of the light (better said, to LIMIT the spectrum to a certain color on which the paper reacts differently than on other colour - cyan vs magenta).
So whether you put it above the negative, or between neg and lens, or below the lens, doesnt matter - the light will be colored so it's fine.
HOWEVER
since the lens projects the negative, any filter or other stuff should not be too close to the negative, in order to avoid risk of projecting scratches, hair, dust etc on this filter onto the image. For the same reason the fitlter should not be close to the paper neither (you'd create sharp shadows of dust etc) but that's not practical anyway
So yes, a filter location above the lens and the neg, closer to the lamp, is better.
from a contrast-altering point of view, it doesnt really matter where you put the filter.
Its only task is to change the color of the light (better said, to LIMIT the spectrum to a certain color on which the paper reacts differently than on other colour - cyan vs magenta).
So whether you put it above the negative, or between neg and lens, or below the lens, doesnt matter - the light will be colored so it's fine.
HOWEVER
since the lens projects the negative, any filter or other stuff should not be too close to the negative, in order to avoid risk of projecting scratches, hair, dust etc on this filter onto the image. For the same reason the fitlter should not be close to the paper neither (you'd create sharp shadows of dust etc) but that's not practical anyway
So yes, a filter location above the lens and the neg, closer to the lamp, is better.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Regarding ND filter and too short exposure times - Is the aperture of your enlarger lens working fine??
lol
lol
bence8810
Well-known
Thanks! I am very interested in this, would be perhaps better than an ND filter and easier to replace should the bulb burn a hole into the ND filter. It's a really hot bulb, I could cook an egg on my enlarger head!
Can you explain a bit more about it? It seems like a non traditional way so I can't find anything about it.
Pherdinand said:
It is working just fine. I can confirm it with the lens in my hand by looking through it and also while on the enlarger, as i turn the aperture ring I see the image getting dimmer and dimmer. So there's no trouble there.
The problem is that I print to a small 5x7" paper (I am still practicing) and this means the lens is about 25cm above the paper. The light source is 100W and I confirmed this is the right bulb for my enlarger. Moreover I started looking for 75W bulbs but I only found one (PH211) and it ships from the US. I am sitting in Japan and it just feels awkward getting a light bulb shipped across half the world, not mentioning the fact that it's actually a Japanese made bulb only sold in the US....:bang:
That aside, how much time would I gain by reducing the light output by 25%? I'd only get 25% more time? So if it takes 2 seconds on f16 for my negative to print now, it would only go to 2min30sec? That wouldn't make such a big difference then.
Thanks for all the help guys, beers in Tokyo next time you are in town!
Ben