Converting color to B/W

Russ

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Hello Fellow RF shooter's

Please excuse my lack of knowledge and ineptitude at digital and scanning technique's. However, it's been brought to my attention that there are quite a lot of shooter's nowadays, that just shoot color negative film, knowing well beforehand, that they are going to convert it to B/W in the scanning process. I've seen some wonderful results, when going this route. Also, can the use of B/W filter's be simulated in the scanning process? Is this common practice? I love the idea of just hauling around one camera. But, I also love the practice of loading a roll of "true" B/W into the rig, and shooting in the conventional method. There's just this feeling & spirititual thing about shooting B/W with me...

Just wondered how other's felt about this.

Thanks
Russ
 
Russ, Photoshop has this feature called "Channel Mixer" (Image -> Adjustment -> Channel Mixer) which allow you to have more control on how you want the colour photo converted into B&W.

How accurate is the result compared to those obtained from B&W film? Good question. I don't know the answer. I only need to know how I want the final image and play around with those R/G/B setting till I have satisfactory result.

Here's an example. Note the contrast different on facial skin tone and the darkness of the lips.
 
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Kris said:
Russ, Photoshop has this feature called "Channel Mixer" (Image -> Adjustment -> Channel Mixer) which allow you to have more control on how you want the colour photo converted into B&W.

How accurate is the result compared to those obtained from B&W film? Good question. I don't know the answer. I only need to know how I want the final image and play around with those R/G/B setting till I have satisfactory result.

Here's an example. Note the contrast different on facial skin tone and the darkness of the lips.

Kris

What film, was the original image shot on? I like the first treatment. What can you do with this image?

Russ
 
Russ, most effects can be simulated in PS but as they come after capturing the shot there're inevitably some effects that can never be adequately simulated. Most filter effects, however, can be simulated accurately.

I always shoot colour film, and convert those that I find suitable to B&W. I find it very restrictive to know that a camera is loading with true B&W film; it forces me to ignore certain shots because they need colour, or I have to carry two cameras.

Having said that, I do like the results I get with Efke KB100, my J-8 and a yellow filter, and the film selfdev'd in Rodinal. I guess I'll need a tiny, light extra camera with LTM thread that I can stuff in my pocket, just to shoot some true B&W....
 
Russ, the original film is Kodak Elitechrome 100. Very nice film for portrait if you ask me. Cheap too when bought in pack of fours although I normally buy 5X pack of fours to get even more discount.

Here's what I did to your photo. The filter effect I write down under the image is what I think that filter should do to the photo. Green filter makes the red rose dark and green leaves bright. Red/orange filter makes the red rose light. How much difference in tonal range compared to actual B&W shot using the same filter is unknown to me. Haven't collected that much experience.
 
I have been thinking of this route to B&W to simplify the gear I carry. I do not develope my own B&W and only do a quick and dirty conversion to B&W in PS Elements 2.0 by changing to greyscale. Here is your photo done that way to show an alternative but likely not as good a method. I am not a B&W expert so take it from there. I did not like the result so I took the liberty to process your original colour photo the way I do my own which is levels/autocolour/autocontrast/USM and then convert the result to greyscale. The second photo is darker.
 
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Sorry can't get two on to one so here is the original conversion to greyscale.
 
Russ,
I'm one of the happy "color-to-b/w-converters". I used to use all sorts of b/w film, but when available time to do the full b/w workflow got less and less, I started to explore the digital route. Where I ended up is here: I'm using color slide films exclusively (Sensia 100 and 400), scan at 2700 dpi (sometimes 5400) to TIFF, and do the standard correction work on the color file in PS Elements. B/w conversion I do with "Powerretouche Black & White Studio", a PS filter. Some may argue that using a PS filter to do the thing is not the pure school. They may have a point here, but on the other hand, if you don't have the time to really getting deeply into PS, then the Powerretouche filter is an efficient way of getting to fine conversions. Powerretouche Black & White Studio is actually an interface which does the tweaks you would otherwise do in Channel Mixer and Curves (amongst others). For me, the beauty of this tool is in that it does the job by means of controls which are largely those we all know from our photographic practice - that is to say: You do the things you would do in the darkroom: Filter, choose paper grade, expose, get the contrast right - very nice indeed, and the learning curve is much less steep than in actual PS. It does have B/W filter emulation (also those I didn't have in my bag at the time - magenta, e.g.), and it even has film characteristics emulation covering the major emulsions - e.g. grainy Tri-X, or tack-sharp TC-N. There are other conversion tools available too - I've tried them, and have come to like the Powerretouche thing best. As far as the printing end of my workflow is concerned, I don't do my own printing (also for time constraints), but have digital files printed sometimes by a pro lab in Switzerland. Sometimes, the output is very good - but not consistently. I'd think the issue is on my end, and has to do with calibration and color management. That's a field offering some really involved problems ... What I can say for sure: Don't send b/w converted images to amateur labs. The correction algorhythms routinely applied there have always created color casts (normally towards magenta). The advantage of a pro lab is that you can have the job done without any corrections - but as I said, it takes you some trial and error to find out the necessary tweaks before you get back consistent quality prints. It's great fun!

All but one of the b/w photos in my gallery are converted from color positive. Could you say which one isn't? Here's the link:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/176

The Powerretouche filter is described in more detail here:
http://www.powerretouche.com/Black-white_plugin_introduction.htm
(This guy should pay me back the license fee for all the free promotion I'm doing here for him - honestly, I think it's top product!)

Oh, and I wanted to mention this: Using color slide film exclusively can drastically reduce bag load. And I couldn't say that something got lost since I hardly use b/w film anymore. When a photo opportunity comes across, I normally know immediately whether it's going to be a color or a b/w one, and organize the shot accordingly. So it's really easy to change from a color to a b/w state of mind, without changing films or cameras - provided one is familiar with the abc of b/w.

Happy converting!
Gerold
 
Gerold, this PowerRetouche plug-in, does it also let you to choose commonly available filter such as R25, G, X1 or XO or it has even more control and let you define how light/strong the filter is?

Any heavy B&W user out there can help me pointing out what kind of filter I will need to get this kind of conversion: low contrast skin tones (achieved by using red/orange filter?) but also darken the lips (effect of light green XO?) to make them more pronounced.
 
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Another one

Another one

Here's a version converted to b&w and then a very cool tone applied to it after adjusting the curves and levels:
 
Re: Another one

Re: Another one

Rich Silfver said:
Here's a version converted to b&w and then a very cool tone applied to it after adjusting the curves and levels:

Cool! I like the cool tone affect. Is that done in PS?

Russ
 
Russ, yeah - I was even so lazy that I used a duo-tone that came with PS so it was simply 'select-click' after I had tweaked the curves and levels a tad.
 
Russ, yep, filter strenghts can be defined. I think there's a demo version available on powerretouche.com. You may want to give it a try. Cheers mate.
 
Gerold Marti said:
All but one of the b/w photos in my gallery are converted from color positive. Could you say which one isn't? Here's the link:

Gerold, I would guess its the photo called 'Limits". I would further venture a guess that it was shot on either TMAX or XP2 Super.

Am I close?

😀
 
Haha, yes my "guess" would also be 'Limits' on XP2 Super 😉
 
I do prefer using B/W film when trying to get B/W images, but I think it has more to do with the grain and accutance, which are different in colour film.

However I do occationally change a colour image (either neg or digital) to BW if that was all I had to shoot. I use the colour mixer (I use GIMP, but same thing in photoshop). If you experiement with the extremes, you can get some interesting effects if you go negative on one of the channels:

31422805.jpg
 
Russ, sfaust - it is "Limit", indeed - I take it nobody gathered this bit of info from the not overly concealed "Film" field ... Yeah, it is XP2 S.
Cheers
 
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