Corrosion on REPLACED sensor?

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allycrighton

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So I'm a proud owner of M9 for a few months -- have the paperwork on the sensor replacement and CLA done in Germany last year. Now, in UAE, dust is an issue, and my sensor was pretty grubby -- something very obvious when shooting with my Orion-15 28mm at F11. So off it went to Leica service here for a sensor 'clean'. TBH, they didn't do a great job .. they cleaned it 3 times, and even said that the shutter was blowing dust back on sensor, so that would need to be taken apart for an extra charge and a lot longer in service. I declined. Since then (just under a week now) I'm seeing what I can only assume is sensor corrosion -- rapidly accelerating, too. Pics enclosed (identical crops, lower right of sensor) -- any thoughts?
 

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Yes, Leica UAE Service Centre not bothering to respond. Leica Germany confirm sensor replacement was with the same defective sensor, and is now out of warranty! Thankfully, can prove it was Leica's 'clean' that caused the damage, so hopefully that will help, but seriously unimpressed by service response so far.
 
Cleaning was the problem, Willie, by Leica's service unit here in UAE who assumed, as it was replaced, 3 wet cleans would be fine. They weren't .
 
"Following the successfully begun and largely completed replacement programme for corroded sensors that affected M9, M9-P, M Monochrom and M-E camera models, we would now like to inform you about how this programme will be handled in the future.

Until 15 August 2017, we will continue to offer free replacement of sensors for these camera models if they are affected by the corrosion problem. This will also apply after 16 August 2017 for the models listed above, but only in cases where the cameras have been purchased as new products within the last five years.

From 16 August 2017, and until further notice, we will offer our customers the following new programme for all camera models mentioned above that were purchased longer than five years ago. Here, the customer pays a share of the replacement costs for the affected CCD sensor amounting to 982 euros (825 euros plus 19% VAT). Included in this programme is a free general overhaul* of your Leica M camera and a one year warranty on the same terms as for new products. This offer expresses our commitment to conserving the value of your camera."

First off, funny they mention largely completed. I guess they didn't include those who have been waiting 7 months now, and with Leica NJ saying they are only now working on cameras they received in June 2017.

I also bolded the part "Until further notice" as that allows them (and they will) change the terms of conditions again to further hose their customers.

Sorry that you are going through this but it was inevitable when Leica was replacing defective sensors with the same defective sensors. Which is why I sold my M-E after the first sensor replacement.

If you want your camera fixed, deal directly with Leica Wetzlar. They are much more responsive and much much quicker.
 
Chuffed Cheese said:
Amazing that they will get away with doing this to their customers. Kind of obscene, really.
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Maybe more amazing is that so many stay loyal.

But on the OP's issue: as we know, there was a period of replacements with the original sensor, but I don't understand how your camera could be among them if the work was done last year. As I recall, repairs with the redesigned solution started in 2015.

John
 
When I owned an M8 and an M9, I didn't like having to wet-clean the sensor very often, but I was able to minimize this by periodically vacuuming the rear lens caps, camera bag and rear of the lenses with a household vacuum cleaner. I'd also try to minimize lens changes under breezy or dusty conditions. No seriously, that sensor is a dust magnet.

I also used to periodically vacuum the interior of the camera itself (with shutter retracted!), but I wouldn't suggest this unless you're 100% sure of what you are doing and assume full responsibility for destroying your camera's sensor and maybe the shutter too. I repair cameras as a hobby and probably have a better than average sense of what I can get away with.
 
I have asked the Leica person in charge of quality assurance to look into complaints about service issues.
 
willie_901 said:
I meant the entire camera. I think dust located through the interior is fouling the sensor.
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I'm with Willie on this. I own a Nikon F3P that was a real "Press Camera" owned by the newspaper "Newsday." This F3P was used to cover Operation Desert Storm. I know this because I bought it soon after the war ended, and I was told it had just been serviced and overhauled by Nikon.

I assume it had a problem with dust. The forensics show pencil markings from the repair tech where the film cassette is loaded. Camera shows a fair amount of brassing from use and has a right loose strap lug.

Evidently when the cost of repairs approaches or exceeds the original costs newspapers sell their used gear to recover costs. At that time F3P's were not available to consumers and one had to have press credentials to purchase one.

I have owned my Monochrom for over 5 years. I bought it soon after it was released. Over those 5 years I have only had to wet clean my sensor 3 times. Understand I live in NYC which is a dirty polluted city, I took precautions of limiting lens changing in the street, and I used a blower and a Visible Dust Arctic Butterfly to maintain good camera hygene to maintain a clean sensor. This is why I had so few wet cleanings required. The Visible Dust LED magnifier made it easy to see any accumulation before any dirt became embedded that would require any wet cleaning.

I had the sensor replaced, it took 12 weeks, and I sent in my camera in December 2016, so I have the upgraded sensor. Leica basically overhauled my camera for free. Over the 5 years the corrosion that was present on my old sensor only became an issue on large prints, always in the same spot, but not on all images. Not really an issue I could not live with.

To me the sensor being a dirt magnet is a bit overblown. The desert enviornment is rather hostile. That is not Leica's fault.

If Leica damaged your sensor cleaning it that is a separate issue.

Cal
 
Sounds like some of us M9 owners should get the visible dust and use it! I take it that it's a "dry cleaning" option?
 
I’m waiting for some smart a** to start selling used Leica M’s that come bundled with “36 single use monochrome sensors on a flexible triacetate substrate” that are user interchangeable and are available at multiple locations worldwide.

Or, since Leica was shipping the MA with a roll of tri-x they could advertise it as the “ new and improved Monochrom”
 
Sorry for your troubles OP.
This is a bucket of cold water on any Leica DRF desire.
How they avoid a class action through all of this is a mystery to me.
 
Rob-F said:
Sounds like some of us M9 owners should get the visible dust and use it! I take it that it's a "dry cleaning" option?
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Rob,

The reason why I disagree sensors are dust magnets is because dirty sensors that require a wet cleaning is kind of preventable.

I bought a Visible Dust kit that included a blower ball with a check valve (kinda important to have a check valve IMHO), an Arctic Butterfly that uses electrostatic force to pull off dust, and this magnifier with a ring of LED lights so one can actually see any accumulation of dust.

I kinda was freaking out because of all the overblown "dirt magnet" threads. I used my Monochrom for about a year and was thinking I would have embedded dirt.

So what I saw on my sensor was oil and grease that had migrated from a new camera on my sensor. I followed the wet cleaning instructions from Visible Dust. Also know that I have read reports that Leica uses Visible Dust products to do their wet cleanings.

So after this initial wet cleaning I had to do another to remove a stubborn piece of dust. The grease and oil problem never was an issue after initial camera breaking in. Pretty much I would inspect my sensor once a month or every 6 weeks and just use a blower brush. A few times I had to use the Arctic Butterfly to use a static charge to pull a dust off the sensor. The three cleanings I reported might be an exaggeration, when in fact it might of been only two wet cleanings over 5 years.

I expect with my new overhauled Monochrome to repeat the same experience I had with my new Monochrom. Maybe some of the illustrated dirt on the sensor might be the oil and grease from initial breakin. Deserts are also hot, and this could of exaccerbated the problem.

Some people do not use the best camera hygene, but I am somewhat of a cronic hand washer too. LOL. Pretty much a dirty sensor is avoidable. The exception here is a desert enviornment or the South Pole which are dusty and gritty enviornments. Of course I only mount clean lenses and I use the blower ball on them to ensure I don't introduce dirt into the camera.

Cal
 
I am now only changing lenses when I am at home with a controlled dust limited atmosphere. I turn over the camera so that the lens mount points downward and I carefully check the lens rear glass before mounting the lens on the camera. It has worked so far.
 
raid said:
I am now only changing lenses when I am at home with a controlled dust limited atmosphere. I turn over the camera so that the lens mount points downward and I carefully check the lens rear glass before mounting the lens on the camera. It has worked so far.
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Raid,

I do the same pointing the lens mount down when using the blower ball with the check valve. Pretty much I am flushing out any dust.

After dealing with the initial break in oil and grease contamination pretty much all that is required is the blower ball. I have only required using the Arctic Butterfly a few times.

The trick here is never to allow dust to accumulate because eventually it gets stubbornly attached. If you use the blower ball frequently enough then there is no need for an Arctic Butterfly.

Wet cleaning is only then required for the oil and grease from initial break-in. Know that I used my Monochrom a lot. Not abused the top plate has silvering along the corners and edges. It displays a patina like a gently brassed camera.

Accumulated dust seems to bond onto the sensor over long periods of time. A little maintenance goes a long ways. I use the blower ball on my film cameras as a carryover.

Cal
 
Hi Cal,
Yes, I have been using the blower regularly, and this is all I have been doing about dust removal. It seems to work well.
 
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