Corrosion or dirt

[pepeguitarra]

This is the way corrosion looks like on M9 sensor:

This is the way corrosion looks like on M9 sensor:

La vida leica dot com has samples of how the sensor looks like with corrosion. You have to google it, I could not post link.

 

[pepeguitarra]

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150222

 

[Fraser]

Got the confirmation email today in for a sensor replacement which surprised me I thought like most that it just needed a clean, was going to sell my 28 summicron but seeing as I will have a brand new sensor might as well keep it!

 

[willie_901]

Got the confirmation email today in for a sensor replacement which surprised me I thought like most that it just needed a clean, was going to sell my 28 summicron but seeing as I will have a brand new sensor might as well keep it!

Sorry to hear this news. At least the corrosion problem will be in your past.

I must say I've never seen an example of M9 sensor delamination with dark circular spots before.

 

[streetleitz]

Hi Fraser,

I've had some experience in identifying sensor corrosion in Leica M9s and M Monochroms (10760) over the past few years from my own M cameras as well as those from my friends. From what I've seen, I believe that those are just dust spots/dirt on your camera's sensor. Here is an example of 2 photographs taken with my friend's M9 with a bad case of sensor corrosion. As you'll see, the snowflake/amoeba like spots (how else can we describe this haha) are the areas where the sensor is "peeling" or corroding. They start out small and will eventually get bigger over time.

Thankfully, Leica will replace your sensor for free under their goodwill program. In my experience, the turnaround time for the replacement of M9 and M Monochrom sensors is about 3 to 6 months. M Monochrom sensor replacements usually take longer than those for the M9 though since M Monochroms need to be sent to Leica Germany while the M9s I sent in for sensor replacement were sent to Leica Singapore (since that's the nearest service center from where I'm from-the Philippines).

Again, to check for sensor corrosion, simply just take a photo at about f/11-16. A plain uniform subject (sky, white wall, etc) would be best so that you can easily identify the spots. However, if the corrosion is already bad, you'll see it right away regardless of the subject.

Hope this helps you and the others out!

- Ian

 

[cz23]

Hi Fraser,

I've had some experience in identifying sensor corrosion in Leica M9s and M Monochroms (10760) over the past few years from my own M cameras as well as those from my friends. From what I've seen, I believe that those are just dust spots/dirt on your camera's sensor. Here is an example of 2 photographs taken with my friend's M9 with a bad case of sensor corrosion. As you'll see, the snowflake/amoeba like spots (how else can we describe this haha) are the areas where the sensor is "peeling" or corroding. They start out small and will eventually get bigger over time.

Thankfully, Leica will replace your sensor for free under their goodwill program. In my experience, the turnaround time for the replacement of M9 and M Monochrom sensors is about 3 to 6 months. M Monochrom sensor replacements usually take longer than those for the M9 though since M Monochroms need to be sent to Leica Germany while the M9s I sent in for sensor replacement were sent to Leica Singapore (since that's the nearest service center from where I'm from-the Philippines).

Again, to check for sensor corrosion, simply just take a photo at about f/11-16. A plain uniform subject (sky, white wall, etc) would be best so that you can easily identify the spots. However, if the corrosion is already bad, you'll see it right away regardless of the subject.

Hope this helps you and the others out!

- Ian

Wow. That's incredible. Attack of the jellyfish.

I've had quite a few spots with white circles, which everyone says indicates corrosion. But they always clean off well. I don't worry about it much any more, but I am somewhat concerned about how long they will offer the free replacement service. It has to end sometime.

John

 

[Fraser]

Hi Fraser,

I've had some experience in identifying sensor corrosion in Leica M9s and M Monochroms (10760) over the past few years from my own M cameras as well as those from my friends. From what I've seen, I believe that those are just dust spots/dirt on your camera's sensor. Here is an example of 2 photographs taken with my friend's M9 with a bad case of sensor corrosion. As you'll see, the snowflake/amoeba like spots (how else can we describe this haha) are the areas where the sensor is "peeling" or corroding. They start out small and will eventually get bigger over time.

Thankfully, Leica will replace your sensor for free under their goodwill program. In my experience, the turnaround time for the replacement of M9 and M Monochrom sensors is about 3 to 6 months. M Monochrom sensor replacements usually take longer than those for the M9 though since M Monochroms need to be sent to Leica Germany while the M9s I sent in for sensor replacement were sent to Leica Singapore (since that's the nearest service center from where I'm from-the Philippines).

Again, to check for sensor corrosion, simply just take a photo at about f/11-16. A plain uniform subject (sky, white wall, etc) would be best so that you can easily identify the spots. However, if the corrosion is already bad, you'll see it right away regardless of the subject.

Hope this helps you and the others out!

- Ian

thats amazing!!!
and not in a good way!

 

[Fraser]

Anyone who is waiting on sensor coming into stock or have been told it will take several months for repair does the repair tracking say 'In repair'. Just wondering as it does on my camera, is it in repair or sitting on a workbench somewhere.
Cheers.

 

[Rayt]

How common is this corrosion problem anyway? Does it eventually affect all such M9 sensors or just a small minority?

 

[Huss]

How common is this corrosion problem anyway? Does it eventually affect all such M9 sensors or just a small minority?

Every one I know that has owned an M9 or M-E has had the corrosion issue. Sometimes multiple times. Myself included.

The latest version of the CCD sensor supposedly fixes those ills. But until these new sensors have been in use for several years we will not really know.

 

[Rayt]

Every one I know that has owned an M9 or M-E has had the corrosion issue. Sometimes multiple times. Myself included.

The latest version of the CCD sensor supposedly fixes those ills. But until these new sensors have been in use for several years we will not really know.

Thanks. I bought a Monochrom during KEH's black friday sale and lets hope I don't regret it. So far the camera meets all expectations and beyond.

Is the Good Will program completely free? Here in Hong Kong the authorized Leica agent charges US$650 for "handling" these CCD replacement claims if camera was not bought from them.

 

[willie_901]

@Ryat

The IR filter material in the original M9 sensor cover glass was not designed to be inert to water. The other characteristics of this filter material are extremely well suited the M9. Unfortunately, sooner or later atmospheric water eventually reaches the IR filter layer in the sensor cover glass and the filter degrades due to a chemical reaction with water. The rate of reaction depends on many variables. This is how come some people see the problem sooner than others... and how come even meticulous, well-thought out storage schemes eliminate this issue. Eventually every original sensor cover glass will become defective.

The new sensor assemblies use an IR filter layer that is designed to be inert to water. Other brands use similar (i.e. inert to water), but not identical IR filter films. Leica put a lot of effort into finding a new filter material that was met their optically standards and is chemically stable.

 

[pepeguitarra]

Every one I know that has owned an M9 or M-E has had the corrosion issue. Sometimes multiple times. Myself included.

The latest version of the CCD sensor supposedly fixes those ills. But until these new sensors have been in use for several years we will not really know.

I only know about me having this problem once, and I live in a semi-desert area. However, I purchased the camera from someone in Texas, where the climate may be more humid. They say that humidity is one of the main causes of this problem.

 

[Huss]

I only know about me having this problem once, and I live in a semi-desert area. However, I purchased the camera from someone in Texas, where the climate may be more humid. They say that humidity is one of the main causes of this problem.

I live in SoCal in a dry climate. I owned my M-E from new, and never wet cleaned the sensor. It corroded.

 

[pepeguitarra]

I live in SoCal in a dry climate. I owned my M-E from new, and never wet cleaned the sensor. It corroded.

Huss: I get it. I live in the Valley, not near the beach, the environment is more humid in Venice. However, wet cleaning does not use water, but certain alcohol that evaporates real quick. In any case, my new sensor has been one year with no problem.
BTW, Southern California is not a desert (except the desert part: Palm springs), its climate is Mediterranean, similar to the south of Italy, South of Spain. That is why the Padres brought grapes, and olives to California.

 

[Fraser]

Email from Leica today sensors out of stock so will be 2-3 weeks until I get my camera back, if thats the case not too bad.

 

[willie_901]

...However, wet cleaning does not use water, but certain alcohol that evaporates real quick. ...

Many alcohols are hygroscopic. Atmospheric water dissolves in practically all alcohols. Of course rapid evaporation reduces water exposure. Careful cleaning is unlikely to accelerate thecover glass delamination. But disturbing the cover glass surface by careless cleaning could increase the rate water reaches the IR filter layer even though there is no immediate optical evidence of scratches.

The average relative humidity in Palm Springs is described as:

"The relative humidity typically ranges from 52% (mildly humid) to 83% (humid) over the course of the year, rarely dropping below 7% (very dry) and reaching as high as 100% (very humid)."

Monthly averages are here.


Water is the sole cause of M9 sensor cover glass delamination.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Thanks. I bought a Monochrom during KEH's black friday sale and lets hope I don't regret it. So far the camera meets all expectations and beyond.

Is the Good Will program completely free? Here in Hong Kong the authorized Leica agent charges US$650 for "handling" these CCD replacement claims if camera was not bought from them.

I sent my MM in because i really thought I was finally having a problem. I have had it 3 1/2 years.

I got it back and they cleaned, adjusted and thoroughly checked the camera and sent it back no charge and no new sensor. It didn't need it. Just a very very dirty sensor. (New Jersey).

 

[jaapv]

Thanks. I bought a Monochrom during KEH's black friday sale and lets hope I don't regret it. So far the camera meets all expectations and beyond.

Is the Good Will program completely free? Here in Hong Kong the authorized Leica agent charges US$650 for "handling" these CCD replacement claims if camera was not bought from them.

It is indeed completely free. Send the camera directly to Wetzlar (unless the handling charges are the bribe for customs 😉)

 

[pepeguitarra]

It is indeed completely free. Send the camera directly to Wetzlar (unless the handling charges are the bribe for customs 😉)

That is the reason I did not dump Leica, they replace my M9 sensor at no additional cost. They added the RF alignment too. If the sensor goes bad again for the same reason, they will change it for one that does not corrode.