Could Henry be right ?
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The focus throw on the Contax is ~0.1mm longer than the Nikon. The helical on the Contax moves 270degrees from 3ft to infinity, the Nikon RF moves 260degrees from 3ft to infinity.
I modified a Nikon S2 to work well with Zeiss lenses by moving the helical out an extra ~0.5mm from the body, to optimize a Sonnar for close up and wide-open. I did this about 7 or 8 years ago.
I also optimized a Zeiss Sonnar 50/1.5 to work close-up and wide-open on a Nikon RF by moving the lens out 0.5mm. And a Helios-103, Menopta 53/1.8, Industar-61L/D, Jupiter-3, and a few other lenses made to the Zeiss 52.4mm standard. The problem is infinity focus, and the lenses need to be stopped down a bit as the focus throw of the Nikon is not long enough. The Sonnar focus shift toward infinity helps close the gap, roughly 0.05mm of it.
I modified a Nikon S2 to work well with Zeiss lenses by moving the helical out an extra ~0.5mm from the body, to optimize a Sonnar for close up and wide-open. I did this about 7 or 8 years ago.
I also optimized a Zeiss Sonnar 50/1.5 to work close-up and wide-open on a Nikon RF by moving the lens out 0.5mm. And a Helios-103, Menopta 53/1.8, Industar-61L/D, Jupiter-3, and a few other lenses made to the Zeiss 52.4mm standard. The problem is infinity focus, and the lenses need to be stopped down a bit as the focus throw of the Nikon is not long enough. The Sonnar focus shift toward infinity helps close the gap, roughly 0.05mm of it.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
He is a rather opinionated guy, but a capable technician, and I tend to trust his capability to measure things accurately...
Henry fails to notice that the Nikon helical moves 260 degrees and the COntax moves 270 degrees. The 0.1mm difference in the focus throw from 3ft to infinity is the difference between a 51.6mm lens and a 52.4mm lens.
Henry should stick to lubing Contax bodies. I've seen some of his botched lens jobs come my way.
Henry should stick to lubing Contax bodies. I've seen some of his botched lens jobs come my way.
FrankS
Registered User
But is he measuring the right stuff? What about that 10 degrees difference from infinity to 3 ft that Brian mentioned? Don't Henry's photos show that as well? He didn't explain that, did he?
edit: I posted at the same time as Brian.
edit: I posted at the same time as Brian.
furcafe
Veteran
enasniearth
Well-known
Nikon/contax
Nikon/contax
There are a lot of variables ,
Nikon thought the pitch of the contax mount was metric threads , in reality it is threads per inch , this is what caused the difference of 10 degrees on the focus rotation .
Infinity focus is the same so all the wides work as the outside bayonet is the same distance from the film plane . The depth of field takes care of the 10 degrees rotation difference for the wides at closet distance.
The standard lenses are different focal lengths which causes a lot of argument as far as shimming lenses , Setting accurate focus at a fixed mid point , all can be done to custom tune the 50 to another body .
I don't think it is worth messing with the normals .
One point that is always missed is to first set the flange to focal plane distance to factory spec . Aluminum castings shrink with age , not much ,however it makes a huge difference with the extreme wides . Most times the lens mount needs to be shimmed out some to reset this .
The zeiss option 21mm and 35 mm. Biogons are great lenses , easily used on nikon rf cameras . Leave the sonnars to the contax Kiev cameras or obtain an armedeo adapter and use on a leica .
Just a humble opinion
Nikon/contax
There are a lot of variables ,
Nikon thought the pitch of the contax mount was metric threads , in reality it is threads per inch , this is what caused the difference of 10 degrees on the focus rotation .
Infinity focus is the same so all the wides work as the outside bayonet is the same distance from the film plane . The depth of field takes care of the 10 degrees rotation difference for the wides at closet distance.
The standard lenses are different focal lengths which causes a lot of argument as far as shimming lenses , Setting accurate focus at a fixed mid point , all can be done to custom tune the 50 to another body .
I don't think it is worth messing with the normals .
One point that is always missed is to first set the flange to focal plane distance to factory spec . Aluminum castings shrink with age , not much ,however it makes a huge difference with the extreme wides . Most times the lens mount needs to be shimmed out some to reset this .
The zeiss option 21mm and 35 mm. Biogons are great lenses , easily used on nikon rf cameras . Leave the sonnars to the contax Kiev cameras or obtain an armedeo adapter and use on a leica .
Just a humble opinion
Here's some information taken from Nikon's website that indicates Henry is wrong (link here):
Henry says "if you want to take a Sonnar lens that is adjusted to give good infinity focus on a Contax and use it on a Nikon and get good infinity focus the lens cartridge must be moved outward in the lens mount by a distance of 0.31mm."
But in contrast to that, Nikon says "To simplify things a bit, they employed the same flange back (the distance from the mounting surface to the film surface) as Contax" "which meant that this Nikon mount could obtain correct focus with both a Contax lens and a Nikon lens at infinity."
Henry says "if you want to take a Sonnar lens that is adjusted to give good infinity focus on a Contax and use it on a Nikon and get good infinity focus the lens cartridge must be moved outward in the lens mount by a distance of 0.31mm."
But in contrast to that, Nikon says "To simplify things a bit, they employed the same flange back (the distance from the mounting surface to the film surface) as Contax" "which meant that this Nikon mount could obtain correct focus with both a Contax lens and a Nikon lens at infinity."
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If you want the lens made to the Zeiss standard focal length to focus wide-open and close-up on the Nikon RF, you should move it out by ~0.4mm. I've done that on at least a dozen lenses. It means the lens will work close-up, but you give up infinity. Best to stop down to F4 for infinity work. That is more than the 0.1mm difference in focus throw between a 51.6mm lens and 52.4mm lens as you move from 3ft to infinity.
Moving the lens out by 0.4mm is empirical, the 0.1mm difference in focus throw is calculated.
Moving the lens out by 0.4mm is empirical, the 0.1mm difference in focus throw is calculated.
Paul T.
Veteran
Well, he would want people with Nikon lenses to use them on a Contax - he's trying to save people dying from cancer etc;
"
The leather used on the Nikon S was tanned with chromic acid and then it was not rinsed or neutralized but was left totally saturated with chromic acid. This left this leather totally toxic to all known forms of life. Not only this it was a powerful sensitizer rendering anyone who used the Nikon S camera to be permanently rendered to be extremely allergic to chromium acid for the remainder of their life. The result of this sensitization was asthma caused whenever the camera was touched or brought close to the face. I also believe this leather also caused a fair number of fatal sinus cancers."
"
The leather used on the Nikon S was tanned with chromic acid and then it was not rinsed or neutralized but was left totally saturated with chromic acid. This left this leather totally toxic to all known forms of life. Not only this it was a powerful sensitizer rendering anyone who used the Nikon S camera to be permanently rendered to be extremely allergic to chromium acid for the remainder of their life. The result of this sensitization was asthma caused whenever the camera was touched or brought close to the face. I also believe this leather also caused a fair number of fatal sinus cancers."
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
I'd like to nominate him for the "Photo Kook of the Year" award...
Highway 61
Revisited
True 100%. But the (lone !) problem source is from the fact that Nikon RF 50mm lenses and Contax RF 50mm lenses don't have the same actual focal length, and that the helicoid pitches are the same.
For this reason the same amount of rotation of the Nikon and Contax helicoids from infinity (or close-up) doesn't bring up the same distance marks on the distance index.
This has been explained thousands of times to Henry, but...
So you can shim the lenses etc but as Brian tells you have to give up with either infinity, or medium distances, or close-ups. And each photo you take which doesn't look sharp enough will have you ask yourself "Did I shim my lens properly" all night long (not good if you have a brain storming at work at 07:00 AM).
There is a good way not to get any headache, which is to use Nikon RF 50mm and longer lenses on a Nikon RF camera, and Contax RF 50mm and longer lenses on a Contax RF camera (unless you get some 'C' 85-105-135 Nikkors for your Contax body).
Finally thanks to Henry I saved $1000 USD by not buying the C-Sonnar 50/1.5 in Nikon RF mount, because it became unclear whether it was a Nikon RF or a Contax RF 50mm lens... 😛
enasniearth
Well-known
Nikon mount
Nikon mount
My apologies , the reference to metric threads on Japanese camera vs German 26 tip ( metric is 25.4 mm per inch ) was based on the leica canon screw mount compatibility in the early j and s ii cameras .
In the quote from nikon website the text should read canon not contax prewar . It is translated from Japanese , so I believe , since Nippon kogaku made the lenses and lens mount for the prewar seiki kogaku ( now canon ) camera . If you look at an early canon hansa you will see that the mount is a separate item that screws onto the canon body locked with a screw it is like a button and wheel focus mount that the nikkors bayonet into ( contax like ). This design does not violate German patents on leitz and zeiss cameras .
As far as I can determine , Nippon kogaku did not make a contax mount before 1946
The surrender of Germany made leitz and zeiss lose patent protection as far as designs .
In rotolonis nikon rangefinder camera , in an interview with mr fuketa,
( He was the main designer of the first nikon and evaluated the canon shutter For it's design and use .)
" The lens mount was very difficult to make . We thought we were the same as contax but after nikon one production began we realized we were slightly different . At infinity they are the same but the 'travel' was different . This caused long delays . "
The nikon book by Robert rotoloni the complete nikon rangefinder system is
A great resource . Well worth the asking price .
Nikon mount
My apologies , the reference to metric threads on Japanese camera vs German 26 tip ( metric is 25.4 mm per inch ) was based on the leica canon screw mount compatibility in the early j and s ii cameras .
In the quote from nikon website the text should read canon not contax prewar . It is translated from Japanese , so I believe , since Nippon kogaku made the lenses and lens mount for the prewar seiki kogaku ( now canon ) camera . If you look at an early canon hansa you will see that the mount is a separate item that screws onto the canon body locked with a screw it is like a button and wheel focus mount that the nikkors bayonet into ( contax like ). This design does not violate German patents on leitz and zeiss cameras .
As far as I can determine , Nippon kogaku did not make a contax mount before 1946
The surrender of Germany made leitz and zeiss lose patent protection as far as designs .
In rotolonis nikon rangefinder camera , in an interview with mr fuketa,
( He was the main designer of the first nikon and evaluated the canon shutter For it's design and use .)
" The lens mount was very difficult to make . We thought we were the same as contax but after nikon one production began we realized we were slightly different . At infinity they are the same but the 'travel' was different . This caused long delays . "
The nikon book by Robert rotoloni the complete nikon rangefinder system is
A great resource . Well worth the asking price .
I modified one Helios-103 by moving the rear group in closer to the front group, which changed the focal length to the Nikon Standard. Some Helios-103's have a secondary shim for the rear group, so I polished it down 0.4mm. That worked, good focus close-up and to infinity.
On the Zeiss Opton Sonnars, I shim them for Nikon Mount. The design does not lend itself to moving the rear group in "easily".
On the Zeiss Opton Sonnars, I shim them for Nikon Mount. The design does not lend itself to moving the rear group in "easily".
This is the best way for sure 🙂
Actually $1,158 😉
http://www.popflash.com/zeiss-lense...-silver-lens-new-now-in-stock-limited-supply/
Carl Zeiss Opton 50/1.5 on the Nikon S2. I shimmed this camera about 7years ago for Contax Lenses. I adjusted the RF for this lens to be perfect focus at 8ft.
It was missing one of the three of the original shims when received it, so had to be redone anyway. Done long before Henry's article. Too bad Henry does not read RFF, would have seen this years ago.
The part that Henry is missing: the Nikon Helical moves 260 degrees, the Contax moves 270. The difference in the travel of the lens from the film plane is 0.1mm as you move from 3ft to infinity.
It was missing one of the three of the original shims when received it, so had to be redone anyway. Done long before Henry's article. Too bad Henry does not read RFF, would have seen this years ago.
The part that Henry is missing: the Nikon Helical moves 260 degrees, the Contax moves 270. The difference in the travel of the lens from the film plane is 0.1mm as you move from 3ft to infinity.
Seeing as the Nikon S-mount versions have the exact same optics as the equivalent M-mount versions, your question is well covered by the thread linked below. So far, of 324 voters in the poll, 190 voters chose the Zeiss 50/1.5 and 134 voters chose the CV 50/1.5. Worth it to some obviously.
CV Nokton 1.5/50 vs Zeiss ZM Sonnar 1.5/50
My latest Carl Zeiss Opton 50/1.5 ran $50. Needed some of the glass replaced, but I had the parts. Came out really well. Shimmed it for the Nikon S-Mount, moved the optics out a little bit. I've done that with one before, sold it.
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