couple of questions about RF composing and pp

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fwellers

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Hi,
Here I am again. You'll probably notice that every so often I post questions about the Leica M. That's because I've had a hardon for one for years !
So now my lastest reason for wanting one is that, aside from being a bit smaller ( including lens ), and lighter than my DF and 35mm combo, I convinced myself that it is probably easier for me to compose with the rangefinder framelines.
I've always thought that I can see a frame or composition better by using Live view, or a point and shoot without a viewfinder. It's something to do with seeing the actual frame as opposed to my entire field of view , being the frame when I look through an slr viewfinder.

With the slr vf, the frame is too in my face, I have to move my eyes all around the corners of the vf etc..
With LV, I can see everything at once that's in the frame, making it so much eaiser to see the balance in the composition.

But, I don't like to compose with LV because of less ability to have a stable sharp pic handheld.

I feel that looking through a Rangefinder VF would be much more like looking through LV, because the entire field of view is not the frame, only the part within the framelines is.

I doubt I can afford an M262 and 35cron, especially without selling all my Nikon gear. But I think I need to rent one for at least the 3 or 4 day period and try it to see.

So my first question is , do you agree with my assessment about composing through the RF VF as opposed to the SLR VF ?

Then the second question is, that since the Leica only has DNG, I am not sure what I would need to do to process my pics.
Currently I process NEFs with CaptureNX2 and then ColorEfx suite.
But I think I may need to use LR ( which I never have really used ) , in order to process the dng. Is that true ?
Will I be able to do a fair job just out of the box with a LR demo ? Or do I need to get started, buy and learn LR first ? I don't really even like or want LR catalogueing ability.

Anyway, that's it. Hope my questions make sense and sorry for the longwindedness of my post.

Thanks in advance.

Floyd
 
Floyd, there are many reputable cameras stores in the Washington, DC, area, including a Leica store by the National Portrait Gallery. Why not go and try the equipment yourself? Bring an SD card and take some pictures in the store to bring home and play with. Download a trial versions of LR ant other raw converters.
 
Whether or not a rangefinder window will be easier to compose with is extremely subjective. If all you're using is a 35mm focal length, you might find it easier. But bear in mind that the framelines are not going to be exact at every shooting distance. Bottom line is that some cropping will likely happen in post...which brings us to the second half of your question. Yes, you should probably get LR and learn how to use it. If you're going to spend that much money on a camera, you should probably just spend some money on software to get the most out of its files. Oh, and it doesn't have to be LR...there are other RAW/DNG converters out there, although I don't know if any of them are easier.
 
View Range said:
Floyd, there are many reputable cameras stores in the Washington, DC, area, including a Leica store by the National Portrait Gallery. Why not go and try the equipment yourself? Bring an SD card and take some pictures in the store to bring home and play with. Download a trial versions of LR ant other raw converters.
Click to expand...

Thanks ViewRange,
yea I went to Ace and they don't have a Demo. I guess I can call the DC store and ask if they do. I didn't know there were any others besides those two.

Thanks,
floyd
 
eujin said:
Whether or not a rangefinder window will be easier to compose with is extremely subjective. If all you're using is a 35mm focal length, you might find it easier. But bear in mind that the framelines are not going to be exact at every shooting distance. Bottom line is that some cropping will likely happen in post...which brings us to the second half of your question. Yes, you should probably get LR and learn how to use it. If you're going to spend that much money on a camera, you should probably just spend some money on software to get the most out of its files. Oh, and it doesn't have to be LR...there are other RAW/DNG converters out there, although I don't know if any of them are easier.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yea I know the frames aren't exact, but I think that at least they will include more and not less, as long as I don't focus too close. I can afford a little crop at 24mp. :).

If I bought an M , I would definitely get and learn LR, but didn't know how much time I would have to invest just to process the pics I take from a Rental camera.
I want to be able to process pics during my 3 or 4 day rental if I do that, so I need to get up to speed at least a little bit on LR before I rent it.

Thanks,
floyd
 
The design intent of all RF is about reportage , i.e. quick snaps of what is around you.
Certainly you can use it for other purposes such as portraits and landscapes and I do, but there are other cameras that are more capable.

LV is miserable off a tripod and I see little use for it. I call them zombie cameras.

My other cameras are Nikons, full frame mostly with 100 % viewfinder. Perfect composition may be achieved even with the optical viewfinder. They even take account of narrower angle of in close range plus parallax. Every lens may need to be fine tuned for perfect auto focus. Colors are different from Leica. They tend to be big and lenses bigger, mush bigger. RF are considerably more portable.

You need Capture One 9 , Photoshop, or LR for native DNG.

Both cameras are nice and useful, but neither is best at everything. This has been true since the invention of the reflex camera.

Try one in the store and then rent if the trial looks promising. 35 mm frame line will still require some hunting around.
 
Personally, I find that renting is a bit of a waste of money when it comes to camera bodies. A Leica M rental can get expensive and you're never going to see any of that money back. In your position, I would buy a used body from somewhere like B&H that has a 30-day return policy. That's much cheaper than renting one because all you'll do is pay for the shipping, if that. And 30 days is going to give you a much better idea of whether you can/want to live with a rangefinder. You can also get a 30-day trial of either Lightroom or CaptureOne during the same period.
 
eujin said:
Personally, I find that renting is a bit of a waste of money when it comes to camera bodies. A Leica M rental can get expensive and you're never going to see any of that money back. In your position, I would buy a used body from somewhere like B&H that has a 30-day return policy. That's much cheaper than renting one because all you'll do is pay for the shipping, if that. And 30 days is going to give you a much better idea of whether you can/want to live with a rangefinder. You can also get a 30-day trial of either Lightroom or CaptureOne during the same period.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I agree, it would be liek $400 dollars for a 3 or 4 day rental with insurance. That's almost 10% the cost of the camera.
I am not keen on your idea about buying from B&H with intentions of just sending it back after I use it. That's kind of taking advantage of their good will policy imho.

I'll get the time to head down to DC one of these days where someone has a demo I can handle for an hour or so.

Thanks,
floyd
 
Renting is not that expensive. lensrentals has a 6 day rental for an M- for $186. Add the CV 35 1.7 for $58. $250 for 6 days to make sure you like the experience?

Used M-E is about $3000. Used 35 1.7 is about $500. So, $250 for 6 days of use to make sure you will like $3500 gear? Not so bad a deal.
 
As others have eluded to, no amount of discussion will give you the information you're after. 10 min with a camera will. Loan, buy, rent, what ever, you will know pretty quickly.

Be prepared to not like it. Not everyone does, but some people persist because of some romantic notion that it's better. It's not, its just different. You haven't failed if you don't like it.

Regarding processing, Leicas also save JPGs so don't stress. View NX will be fine for JPGs, and from memory Capture NX can also import JPGs?
 
fwellers said:
Thanks. I agree, it would be liek $400 dollars for a 3 or 4 day rental with insurance. That's almost 10% the cost of the camera.
I am not keen on your idea about buying from B&H with intentions of just sending it back after I use it. That's kind of taking advantage of their good will policy imho.

I'll get the time to head down to DC one of these days where someone has a demo I can handle for an hour or so.

Thanks,
floyd
Click to expand...

What I mean is not buying one with the intention of sending it back — the 30-day policy gives you a good trial period in which to determine whether or not a rangefinder camera woudl work for you. If it works, keep it...that's what the policy is for.
 
Reading is not getting the picture of actual use.
Buy. New or used. B+H whatever. 30 days better than renting.
Frame lines in modern Leica-M, film or digital are not accurate.
Sorry, but here I prefer the SLR, not DSLR.
My M6 sucks, compared to M3.

Composing is something intuitive and not requiring tripod or long waits.
See, Frame, press button.
Concentrate with one lens.
Any Leica M lens is perfect.
Settle on 50mm or 35mm.

Use your SLR at same time,
to see how composing(SLR) and Framing (RF),
really differ.
Personally it's a draw.
Enjoy the journey.
 
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