lynn
lynn
Raid: this is a mesmerising image. I know it IS a landscape, since you mention the location, but it could almost be waves of smoke catching pastel lights in the night.
I also like how it manages to be asymetrical and perfectly balanced all at once.
I also like how it manages to be asymetrical and perfectly balanced all at once.
lynn
lynn
Shiro-kuro: This conjuction of red and green is stunning; long live complementary colours! The composition is daring, being half/half as it is, but it works splendidly, especially with the zig-zag of the transition and the difference in textures.
And I love the DOF.
And I love the DOF.
lynn
lynn
Warren: I’m very taken by the composition of this image - I like how the diagonal swath of sky pulls my eye to the mountains, and how the diagonal placement of the fallen tree does the same. The strong angles work very well indeed; they frame the glorious view.
(And what a beautiful place!)
(And what a beautiful place!)
Warren T.
Well-known
Gabriel M.A.: I like the mood of this shot. Because of the selective focus and DOF, I am immediately drawn to the message in the foreground. The slightly rising diagonal of the railing then draws my attention to the dramatic sky and colors in the background. The dark and moody middle area adds an appropriately melancholy feeling. Nicely composed and seen, and with good emotional impact!
It would have been great of the words were in even sharper focus, but I understand that given the conditions, you were probably pushing the limits of hand-holdability. I would be interested to know the backstory of how you came across this shot.
Lynn: This is a good shot given the grey and monochromatic conditions of the scene. I like the way the colored, man made objects add two points of interest in the foreground and background, which leads my eye through the middle (water). The lonely blue object in the foreground along with the cracked, dry ground give a feeling of abandonment.
Technically speaking, I notice that for some reason, the right side of the image appears darker than the left side. I wonder what happened here?
Raid (Antelope Canyon) : This is a familiar setting. I remember your earlier critique image from the same location. This one once again shows the great texture and nice subtle colors of the rocks. The wavy patterns and subtle colors give a feeling of lightness and delicacy, which is not something that is usually associated with rocks.
In this particular version, the black area on the right seems to be extraneous to the composition, but when I try to think about how best to crop it, I can't seem to come up with a satisfactory answer (to me).
shiro_kuro: I like how the naturally rich red color is balanced by the green in the rest of the picture (2 primary colors here). The bokeh is very pleasing, and the OOF object places this image in a Japanese garden.
Just a personal preference, but for me, I would prefer that the main subject have a more distinct shape or emphasis in this instance.
-------------------
Thanks to everyone for giving me an opportunity to comment on these great pictures!
--Warren
It would have been great of the words were in even sharper focus, but I understand that given the conditions, you were probably pushing the limits of hand-holdability. I would be interested to know the backstory of how you came across this shot.
Lynn: This is a good shot given the grey and monochromatic conditions of the scene. I like the way the colored, man made objects add two points of interest in the foreground and background, which leads my eye through the middle (water). The lonely blue object in the foreground along with the cracked, dry ground give a feeling of abandonment.
Technically speaking, I notice that for some reason, the right side of the image appears darker than the left side. I wonder what happened here?
Raid (Antelope Canyon) : This is a familiar setting
. I remember your earlier critique image from the same location. This one once again shows the great texture and nice subtle colors of the rocks. The wavy patterns and subtle colors give a feeling of lightness and delicacy, which is not something that is usually associated with rocks. In this particular version, the black area on the right seems to be extraneous to the composition, but when I try to think about how best to crop it, I can't seem to come up with a satisfactory answer (to me).
shiro_kuro: I like how the naturally rich red color is balanced by the green in the rest of the picture (2 primary colors here). The bokeh is very pleasing, and the OOF object places this image in a Japanese garden.
Just a personal preference, but for me, I would prefer that the main subject have a more distinct shape or emphasis in this instance.
-------------------
Thanks to everyone for giving me an opportunity to comment on these great pictures!
--Warren
shiro_kuro
Charles Bowen
@Gabreil.....It is the words that strike me the most .. as if the person who wrote this has a deep love and sadness for this place ....... I am not sure why I say sadness but it is just what I feel when I look at this beautiful sky and the city lights imagining I am the one who wrote these words on this bridge ...I feel distant from this city , the red pipe acting as a barrier along with being out of focus -- only reinforces that feeling for me ....
Beautiful photograph ...thanks for sharing it ......
Charley
Beautiful photograph ...thanks for sharing it ......
Charley
shiro_kuro
Charles Bowen
@Lynn.... I like the simplicity of your photograph ..and subtle colors of the grass and the buoys ...The sky is to blank for me ...it would of been great if there were more detail ..but as you said it was a grey day ...maybe less sky or a different composition all together involving the elements which first caught your eye ... Knowing the sky would not be so dynamic on a grey day ..... I was taking a lot of shots at the beach here in Japan ...I always got white skies --no detail (shooting B&W) I got a yellow filter which Raid suggested and it helped but also started to change my approach if I felt the sky was not going to add to my shot or I would not take the shot at all ...Not that this is the case with your photograph it is just something that came to mind when thinking about the sky .....
Charley
Charley
shiro_kuro
Charles Bowen
@Raid...... This is such a beautiful shot ...very sensual ......
The right side seems a bit dark, little more light to bring out the details and those reds ... I tried a little adjustment in PS to show what I mean and I removed some spots maybe natural ...but found them distracting amongst flowing waves........... I am sure with the original negative you could get an amazing image ..... I would love to see this in person
Charley
The right side seems a bit dark, little more light to bring out the details and those reds ... I tried a little adjustment in PS to show what I mean and I removed some spots maybe natural ...but found them distracting amongst flowing waves........... I am sure with the original negative you could get an amazing image ..... I would love to see this in person
Charley
Attachments
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shiro_kuro
Charles Bowen
@WarrenT...... I like the way you use all of the surrounding elements to frame the distant mountain ........ The fallen tree in the foreground adds interest ...I am not sure but there seems to this competition between the dark shadow on the right ,the fallen tree and the bright area on the left foreground ...... I think it is to much to look at before I get to the mountain in the distance ...... I am not sure if I am right about this hmmmmm : )...hard to offer critique when I barley know what I am doing ......
Charley
Charley
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raid
Dad Photographer
Now we can comment on our own images; mine was one of many images that I took during an adventerous trip in which a Navajo Indian roped me down a narrow and steep slot canyon. It was a secret location at the time, and I found by pure chance a person in Utah who drew me a map for the location in Arizona. I wouldnot have found the exact entrance to the canyon without a local Navjo Indian (Frank) whoasked for $20 to show me where the entrance was hidden.Then I paid him more the next morning at dawn to rope me down.
At some places the canyon was so narrow that it was not wide enough for walking through it. You would have to climb a little on the edges. There were few options for exposure. The sun enters the canyon from the valley, and it bounces from wall to wall as the day progreses. What you see as dark or black areas are simply parts inside the canyon to which the sun has not yet reached. I left those areas in to contrast against it the colorful red areas that were hit by the sun. The sandstone was falling on my head throughout the adventure, and one oy two cameras jammed. I had to be roped up to get from the car my back-up camera.
Raid
At some places the canyon was so narrow that it was not wide enough for walking through it. You would have to climb a little on the edges. There were few options for exposure. The sun enters the canyon from the valley, and it bounces from wall to wall as the day progreses. What you see as dark or black areas are simply parts inside the canyon to which the sun has not yet reached. I left those areas in to contrast against it the colorful red areas that were hit by the sun. The sandstone was falling on my head throughout the adventure, and one oy two cameras jammed. I had to be roped up to get from the car my back-up camera.
Raid
Warren T.
Well-known
Everyone,
Thanks for your interesting comments/critiques on my picture. It was taken with a Nikon F4s w/Sigma 15-30mm on Kodak E100GX slide film. The primary subject is Half Dome in Yosemite National Park (that snow covered peak in the distance). Since Half Dome is probably one of the most photographed sights in the park, and often dominates an image (I have plenty like that), I decided to present it in a little different way. I tried to show it in relation to the surrounding countryside, with the meadow and trees in the foreground. With the limited lattitude of slide film, I used the dark shadow in the lower right as a balancing element to the other trees/leaves in the foreground. Imagine walking through a grove of trees and have the scenery open up to a meadow, then seeing Half Dome looming in the distance.
--Warren
Thanks for your interesting comments/critiques on my picture. It was taken with a Nikon F4s w/Sigma 15-30mm on Kodak E100GX slide film. The primary subject is Half Dome in Yosemite National Park (that snow covered peak in the distance). Since Half Dome is probably one of the most photographed sights in the park, and often dominates an image (I have plenty like that
), I decided to present it in a little different way. I tried to show it in relation to the surrounding countryside, with the meadow and trees in the foreground. With the limited lattitude of slide film, I used the dark shadow in the lower right as a balancing element to the other trees/leaves in the foreground. Imagine walking through a grove of trees and have the scenery open up to a meadow, then seeing Half Dome looming in the distance.--Warren
shiro_kuro
Charles Bowen
It is interesting when you consider what went into these shots ..... After reading a bit about Raid and the adventure that was involved to get his shot .....or Warren's explanation as to why he went about his shot the way he did ..it adds a another level of interest and I actually see these photos in another way ... imagining the surroundings outside the frame and thinking more about what might be involved getting a photograph ... choice of composition etc. ....
lynn
lynn
I'm a little mystified, I must admit, by this "depressing" thing.
(and I still haven't figured out how it fits into Ray's guidelines of "positive", or "constructive criticism", since it isn't either, is it now? Some people always have SO MUCH to say, but mostly about themselves, I am guessing.)
I don't ever find nature depressing, and nature is exactly what this picture depicts: an expanse of shore at low tide, cracked, abandoned, and thirsty, but expectant, expectant and secure in its place in the moon's cycles and moods, certain of replenishment and depletion, over and over, because that is exactly what this part of North Norfolk is about. Those sad little buoys will be bobbing happily in the waves in a few hours, and floundering forlornly a few hours after that. It's life, is it not? It's highs and lows, and tomorrow-is-another-day. Depressing? Well, hardly. Depressing are images photoshopped to Tokyo and back. But PLEASE don't get me started.
Warren: thank you. I don't see any darker bits, to be honest. The tidal mud at Blakeney is not a uniform brown (is any mud?): that could be it. This is a straight scan from a straight negative. G'man perfected the Canonet; its exposure - therefore, and needless to say - is flawless.
Charley: thank YOU, too. You're right: sky is not always necessary in an image. It was in this case, though. I don't just point-and-then-shoot; I point, and then I put on my dancing shoes, and shimmy back and forth and side to side until I see what encompasses. Ask Jocko. Composition tends not to be my weak point.
And finally, last but never least: my gratitude, Gabriel, for YOUR input. It made me think. You are someone whose insights I respect totally, and whose photographs consistently take my breath away.
(and I still haven't figured out how it fits into Ray's guidelines of "positive", or "constructive criticism", since it isn't either, is it now? Some people always have SO MUCH to say, but mostly about themselves, I am guessing.)
I don't ever find nature depressing, and nature is exactly what this picture depicts: an expanse of shore at low tide, cracked, abandoned, and thirsty, but expectant, expectant and secure in its place in the moon's cycles and moods, certain of replenishment and depletion, over and over, because that is exactly what this part of North Norfolk is about. Those sad little buoys will be bobbing happily in the waves in a few hours, and floundering forlornly a few hours after that. It's life, is it not? It's highs and lows, and tomorrow-is-another-day. Depressing? Well, hardly. Depressing are images photoshopped to Tokyo and back. But PLEASE don't get me started.
Warren: thank you. I don't see any darker bits, to be honest. The tidal mud at Blakeney is not a uniform brown (is any mud?): that could be it. This is a straight scan from a straight negative. G'man perfected the Canonet; its exposure - therefore, and needless to say - is flawless.
Charley: thank YOU, too. You're right: sky is not always necessary in an image. It was in this case, though. I don't just point-and-then-shoot; I point, and then I put on my dancing shoes, and shimmy back and forth and side to side until I see what encompasses. Ask Jocko.
Composition tends not to be my weak point.And finally, last but never least: my gratitude, Gabriel, for YOUR input. It made me think. You are someone whose insights I respect totally, and whose photographs consistently take my breath away.
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shiro_kuro
Charles Bowen
@ Lynn ....."North coast of Norfolk on a dull grey day."
I for one was lead on by the description of your photo ..... The word "Dull" perhaps suggested the lack of something in your photograph. It also could be looked at as a title to your photo which makes a very strong impression on an image ..leading the observer ..... either way this influenced how I looked at your image ,what I wrote ..... Words with photos can cloud the intention of the photograph not allowing it to stand on its own .Words combined with an image can also create a powerful effect . Just as in Gabriel's image ......
I enjoyed your photograph and found it very difficult to critique .....
"Your image has a feeling of depression attached to it"
"cracked, abandoned, and thirsty,----Those sad little buoys will be bobbing happily in the waves in a few hours, and floundering forlornly a few hours after that. It's life, is it not?" These are powerful and poetic words and go very well with your image .....maybe this is the feeling of depression Raid felt was apart of your image ......
Charley
I for one was lead on by the description of your photo ..... The word "Dull" perhaps suggested the lack of something in your photograph. It also could be looked at as a title to your photo which makes a very strong impression on an image ..leading the observer ..... either way this influenced how I looked at your image ,what I wrote ..... Words with photos can cloud the intention of the photograph not allowing it to stand on its own .Words combined with an image can also create a powerful effect . Just as in Gabriel's image ......
I enjoyed your photograph and found it very difficult to critique .....
"Your image has a feeling of depression attached to it"
"cracked, abandoned, and thirsty,----Those sad little buoys will be bobbing happily in the waves in a few hours, and floundering forlornly a few hours after that. It's life, is it not?" These are powerful and poetic words and go very well with your image .....maybe this is the feeling of depression Raid felt was apart of your image ......
Charley
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raid
Dad Photographer
Lynn: Please do not take my comment that I found the image to convey to me a "depressing" feeling as a negative comment at all. I am the one who viewed this image this way, while you and others did not. I find the image to be a good image, and I truthfully conveyed to you the feeling that I thought you were trying to give us. This is not a personal attack on you or your image in any way.
I am sorry that you feel this way, but I would not have used these words if I had felt that they were possibly viewed as personal in any way.
"Some people always have SO MUCH to say, but mostly about themselves, I am guessing.)"
It is not polite to make a negative personal statement about a RFF member simply because you do not agree with how an image is seen to be conveying a message. It is rude. The RFF is a place where people respectfully exchange ideas and opinions [that may not be identical].
I saw the image, and this is the message that I saw. If I missed the point that you were trying to convey with your image, just say so in a polite way. Yes, I felt that your image conveyed abondonment, which could also be viewed as depression. This should be taken as a compliment.
Charley: Thank you for your comment above. I certainly have no agenda here.
Thank you and Marry Christmas.
Raid
I am sorry that you feel this way, but I would not have used these words if I had felt that they were possibly viewed as personal in any way.
"Some people always have SO MUCH to say, but mostly about themselves, I am guessing.)"
It is not polite to make a negative personal statement about a RFF member simply because you do not agree with how an image is seen to be conveying a message. It is rude. The RFF is a place where people respectfully exchange ideas and opinions [that may not be identical].
I saw the image, and this is the message that I saw. If I missed the point that you were trying to convey with your image, just say so in a polite way. Yes, I felt that your image conveyed abondonment, which could also be viewed as depression. This should be taken as a compliment.
Charley: Thank you for your comment above. I certainly have no agenda here.
Thank you and Marry Christmas.
Raid
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Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I understand your frustration, Lynn. In some cases, some just don't have the experience, in other cases, after many times doing it, it's hard to understand, but we're all human. It's all a learning process. Even how to read comments that were meant to be a critique and didn't follow guidelines. The first couple of times is harder, specially when people with different cultural disciplines have different expectations about guidelines and communication.lynn said:
It'd be great to see some more of your photos around here.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Yes, yes it is. Just like telling somebody often to have patience when you perceive them not to have it. Just saying.raid said:
raid
Dad Photographer
Gabriel: Asking you once in this thread to be patient, as a response to your comment, is in no way a negative request. One of the guidelines for the critiqueing forum is to have two rounds of comments, and this is what I meant by saying "be patient" ... there will be a second round of comments coming. I thought that this was obvious and certainly not meant as a negative comment on you, Gabriel.
Raid
Raid
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
raid said:
Raid, it may be helpful to elaborate a little more on this. What is it in the image that gives you a feeling of depression?
Also, what do you like about the image (the positive comment)? What has Lynn done that makes this image successful (on any level)?
Then, what would make this a better image (the constructive comment)? What could she have done compositionally or in the final presentation that would have improved the image?
Remember this is a dialog between all involved. Present your opinion, back it up, hear what Lynn has to say and go around again. Lynn's come back may offer up some clues as to what she was going after. Now you can offer more suggestions on how she could have achieved that end result (if you felt she didn't succeed).
Also, this is an all hands back-and-forth. If the commentary is insufficient, you/anyone is entitled to an elaboration/explanation. We're looking at images, but we're also learning from one another. Keep the dialog/discussion going for as long as you feel it needs to go. Everyone in the thread has the responsibility.
raid
Dad Photographer
Returning one more time to Lynn's image, I want now to give it a more detailed critique since I obviously have not done this well so far.
I have the following points of personal observations [I say "personal" because another person may have other views]:
1. The image of a landscape typically is taken horizontally by most people, and it is useful to consider vertical perspectives too. Here, Lynn has done a great job using the vertical perspective. I happen to take about 50% of my landscape images vertically too.
2. The photo is divided into three equally spaced areas [foreground, middle, top], covering the sand, the remains of water,and the sky. It is perfectly executed, as the three areas are equally divided. While the "rule" suggests to divide up the vertical image in three equal areas, it can also be interesting to consider giving more space to either the top or the bottom, depending on the image. Here, the equal balance works to the advantage of the image.
3. Content: While I saw the glass half empty, someone else sees the same glass half full. The image is of a coastal area during the time when the waters have subsided. Is it an image full of promise of the return of water and life, or is it an image of emptiness? This is pretty much up to the person viewing this image. The photographer, Lynn, expressed her view of her image as being a happy one. This is certainly the good thing about photography; the photographer decides what her/his image is about.
4. Film: This image was taken with color film. The choice of film may have helped this image somewhat. The starkness would have been artificial if a more contrasty color film had been used. Again, this choice is upto the photographer. It would be interesting to see this image converted to B&W.
5. Focus: I find it an excellent reminder to us not to only look for subjects that look "beautiful" as we see it. There is also beauty in subjects that may initially not convey that there is beauty out there.
6. Lesson: I have learned not to comment briefly at first, with the intent to follow up with more details. This kind of commenting can be viewed as a shortcoming and it can be the start of miscommunications.
Raid
P.S. Ray said: "Raid, it may be helpful to elaborate a little more on this. What is it in the image that gives you a feeling of depression?"
The image somehow reminded me of images from Iraq seen on TV these days. There is no happiness in sight. It is strictly a personal perspective. Many excellent images are sad. I feel that each of us has the right to have her/his own feeling about an image.
I have the following points of personal observations [I say "personal" because another person may have other views]:
1. The image of a landscape typically is taken horizontally by most people, and it is useful to consider vertical perspectives too. Here, Lynn has done a great job using the vertical perspective. I happen to take about 50% of my landscape images vertically too.
2. The photo is divided into three equally spaced areas [foreground, middle, top], covering the sand, the remains of water,and the sky. It is perfectly executed, as the three areas are equally divided. While the "rule" suggests to divide up the vertical image in three equal areas, it can also be interesting to consider giving more space to either the top or the bottom, depending on the image. Here, the equal balance works to the advantage of the image.
3. Content: While I saw the glass half empty, someone else sees the same glass half full. The image is of a coastal area during the time when the waters have subsided. Is it an image full of promise of the return of water and life, or is it an image of emptiness? This is pretty much up to the person viewing this image. The photographer, Lynn, expressed her view of her image as being a happy one. This is certainly the good thing about photography; the photographer decides what her/his image is about.
4. Film: This image was taken with color film. The choice of film may have helped this image somewhat. The starkness would have been artificial if a more contrasty color film had been used. Again, this choice is upto the photographer. It would be interesting to see this image converted to B&W.
5. Focus: I find it an excellent reminder to us not to only look for subjects that look "beautiful" as we see it. There is also beauty in subjects that may initially not convey that there is beauty out there.
6. Lesson: I have learned not to comment briefly at first, with the intent to follow up with more details. This kind of commenting can be viewed as a shortcoming and it can be the start of miscommunications.
Raid
P.S. Ray said: "Raid, it may be helpful to elaborate a little more on this. What is it in the image that gives you a feeling of depression?"
The image somehow reminded me of images from Iraq seen on TV these days. There is no happiness in sight. It is strictly a personal perspective. Many excellent images are sad. I feel that each of us has the right to have her/his own feeling about an image.
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raid
Dad Photographer
Hello Ray,
Thanks for your constructive input here.
Thanks for your constructive input here.