Current Inkjet Options for B/W

[v3cron]

I used to have fancy Epson printers that drove me crazy with problems, but occasionally the prints were decent. I am looking to buy a printer now to make proofs for sequencing and making book dummies, but I would like the quality to be good enough to show to publishers, etc.

Given the extreme level of frustration I had dealing the "pro" level stuff, I'm looking to spend as little as possible to get nice b/w prints on baryta inkjet paper (probably).

Does anyone have any experience with these models and printing b/w? These are Japanese model numbers, which may differ from the western versions:

Epson EP-50v
Epson EP-887a
Canon Pixus TS8730/8830

I chose these because they all have 6 inks, though I think they are all dye-based. The price and size jump to pigment inks seems to be pretty high.

I've been out of the loop on printers for a long time. Can someone catch me up?

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

If you want really good B&W prints from an inkjet, look for Epson printers that support Epson's Advanced Black and White Mode. It is the only way to get truly neutral B&W prints. I don't know if any of Epson's dye ink printers offer it, though. I think Canon has a similar feature on some of their printers, too.

I made a Tutorial for Epson Advanced B&W Mode.

 

[v3cron]

If you want really good B&W prints from an inkjet, look for Epson printers that support Epson's Advanced Black and White Mode. It is the only way to get truly neutral B&W prints. I don't know if any of Epson's dye ink printers offer it, though. I think Canon has a similar feature on some of their printers, too.

I made a Tutorial for Epson Advanced B&W Mode.

Yes, I vaguely remember that color cast wheel thing!

Does anyone know of a list of Epson printers that use the ABW? I think the Canon equivalent is only on their Pro series.

 

[Mcary]

The lowest cost Epson printer with ABW mode is the P700, which is a 13 inch printer. So far I've only used mine to print digital negatives for alternate prints so can say what the results are like using the ABW mode for B&W prints. One warning make sure that you order a full set of inks and not rely on the set that comes with the printer as they may not have enough ink in them to initially charge the printer, but even if a cartridge does not have enough ink to initially you can still use it later. One thing that nice is though the inks are expensive, just went up to $42 on B&H I can replace them one at time based on usage so if I see that printer shows I'm close running low on certain inks I just order those cartridges and switch them out when the prints says they need to be replaced.

 

[robert blu]

The Epson's Advanced Black and White Mode on my P900 gives excellent results on different kinf of papers. I rarely print larger than A4 (8.3" x 11.7") but decided to go for a printer which allows larger format prints (A2 16.5" x 23.4") because the ink cost of larger cartridge in the medium term makes it really less expensive.
If the main purpose is to make prints for dummies other printers should be good.

 

[Michalm]

I used to have fancy Epson printers that drove me crazy with problems, but occasionally the prints were decent. I am looking to buy a printer now to make proofs for sequencing and making book dummies, but I would like the quality to be good enough to show to publishers, etc.

Given the extreme level of frustration I had dealing the "pro" level stuff, I'm looking to spend as little as possible to get nice b/w prints on baryta inkjet paper (probably).

Does anyone have any experience with these models and printing b/w? These are Japanese model numbers, which may differ from the western versions:

Epson EP-50v
Epson EP-887a
Canon Pixus TS8730/8830

I chose these because they all have 6 inks, though I think they are all dye-based. The price and size jump to pigment inks seems to be pretty high.

I've been out of the loop on printers for a long time. Can someone catch me up?

Hi i have just received one of the Epson printers above and injected it with custom Carbon BW pigment inkset Carbonprint Graphite2 Ecotank ET-1810 . So far I have tested it with Epson Archival Matt proofing paper which went mostly well ( lack of ICC profile for the paper used ) and need to decide now which high quality paper to buy now . Note that this setup works with Matt papers only .

 

[Godfrey]

Currently, Epson P600 here (replaced by P700 in the Epson line up). Standard Epson inks, Epson Velvet Fine Art and other (Hahnemüle, Somerset, etc) archival papers. I do mostly matte and semi-matte papers only, never liked the look of glossy surface papers. Before this one I had the Epson R2400 for a long time, which was similar, but the P600 outperforms it in several ways.

With any printer that you want to consistently do quality printing with, the best thing to do is to make at least one or two good photographic prints every week to keep the nozzles clear and the head control running smoothly. Most problems come from letting a quality printer sit for long periods unused and then having to exercise the heck out of it to get it to work reliably again. An ounce of prevention saves a pound of cure... 😉

G

 

[JeffS7444]

IME, Canon inkjet printers cause me the least grief versus Epson and HP.

For b&w work, I'd choose a model which uses photo gray ink in addition to black.

If concerned about possible metallic or oily sheen when prints are viewed at an angle, the price goes up 😀

Kind of a pity that Canon does not offer a Selphy pro dye-sub printer, as these are wonderfully reliable, and when profiled, can produce marvelous results. But with only the single black ribbon, not ideal for b&w work, especially not those with large dark regions. A quadtone cart for the existing models would be killer.

 

[v3cron]

Thanks for the input so far, everyone!
I guess the big question is whether dye printers can make good b/w prints, or if it will just be a giant waste. I’m looking at papers from Ilford, Pictran, and maybe a few others that have a baryta flavor, since those surfaces look good in the samples I’ve seen - not too plasticky like a lot of glossy papers, and not pebbly like pearl finishes. I may try matte as well, if dye printers can do well with that.

 

[v3cron]

IME, Canon inkjet printers cause me the least grief versus Epson and HP.

For b&w work, I'd choose a model which uses photo gray ink in addition to black.

If concerned about possible metallic or oily sheen when prints are viewed at an angle, the price goes up 😀

Kind of a pity that Canon does not offer a Selphy pro dye-sub printer, as these are wonderfully reliable, and when profiled, can produce marvelous results. But with only the single black ribbon, not ideal for b&w work, especially not those with large dark regions. A quadtone cart for the existing models would be killer.

The Canon models I’m looking at have a gray ink in addition to cmyk, which is why they stood out to me.

 

[Godfrey]

Thanks for the input so far, everyone!
I guess the big question is whether dye printers can make good b/w prints, or if it will just be a giant waste. I’m looking at papers from Ilford, Pictran, and maybe a few others that have a baryta flavor, since those surfaces look good in the samples I’ve seen - not too plasticky like a lot of glossy papers, and not pebbly like pearl finishes. I may try matte as well, if dye printers can do well with that.

My experience is that the dye-based ink printers can do very subtle color work, but are not so good at B&W mixing for gray tones.

The Epson P600/P700 have a nine cartridge pigment-based ink system:


That's Yellow, Very Light Magenta, Light Cyan, Magenta, Cyan, Light Light Black, Light Black, Photo Black (for glossy), Matt Black (for matte).

B&W printing with these printer is about as good as you can get due to the incorporation of three blacks for mixing gray tones.

G

 

[Oren Grad]

The issue with dye printers is that in printing B&W they are prone to color casts that differ depending on the ambient lighting and so are difficult or impossible to neutralize consistently.

Keith Cooper has lots of informative articles and reviews on inkjet printing, including B&W in particular:

Digital black and white photography articles and reviews

 

[v3cron]

My experience is that the dye-based ink printers can do very subtle color work, but are not so good at B&W mixing for gray tones.

The Epson P600/P700 have a nine cartridge pigment-based ink system:

View attachment 4876618
That's Yellow, Very Light Magenta, Light Cyan, Magenta, Cyan, Light Light Black, Light Black, Photo Black (for glossy), Matt Black (for matte).

B&W printing with these printer is about as good as you can get due to the incorporation of three blacks for mixing gray tones.

G

Yeah, that looks to be a similar set to my old R2400. Canon also has a model that costs a little less and has 8 inks including gray, but they are dye based. I wonder how that compares.

 

[filmtwit]

My experience is that the dye-based ink printers can do very subtle color work, but are not so good at B&W mixing for gray tones.

The Epson P600/P700 have a nine cartridge pigment-based ink system:

View attachment 4876618
That's Yellow, Very Light Magenta, Light Cyan, Magenta, Cyan, Light Light Black, Light Black, Photo Black (for glossy), Matt Black (for matte).

B&W printing with these printer is about as good as you can get due to the incorporation of three blacks for mixing gray tones.

G

Technically that's a 8 cartridge printer since the Gloss/Matt cartrages don't work together, but are swiched.

If you want good B&W out of a Epson 8 or 10 cartridge printers, you have to switch the ink out for Cone B&W inks.

 

[Godfrey]

Technically that's a 8 cartridge printer since the Gloss/Matt cartrages don't work together, but are swiched.

If you want good B&W out of a Epson 8 or 10 cartridge printers, you have to switch the ink out for Cone B&W inks.

Tried that for a time. The print quality was excellent, but the Cone B&W inks clogged and destroyed two sets of printing heads on me. I gave up on them and just use the Epson inks, and have no problems with print quality. YMMV ... 🙂

And yes, the nine-ink set of cartridges ends up being 8 since one black is optimized for glossy and the other for black paper surfaces. My experience, at least with matte surface papers, is that Epson has done an excellent job of it.

G

 

[v3cron]

The issue with dye printers is that in printing B&W they are prone to color casts that differ depending on the ambient lighting and so are difficult or impossible to neutralize consistently.

Keith Cooper has lots of informative articles and reviews on inkjet printing, including B&W in particular:

Digital black and white photography articles and reviews

Thanks. He writes about both the Epson and Canons on there, but doesn't seem to compare them in what I've read so far. If I do just bite the bullet and buy the SC700/PX1V or PRO-310/G2, which is better in the end?

 

[mrtoml]

I'm using Cone inks in a P900 and have Roark's eboni 6 inks in an epson 3880. I have never had any significant problems with clogs.

 

[gavinlg]

My experience working in labs/print shops has been that the modern canon printers are less fussy and a little easier to get things to look right. The newish canon 310 in particular has really good feedback amongst friends for its price.

 

[Freakscene]

I'm using Cone inks in a P900 and have Roark's eboni 6 inks in an epson 3880. I have never had any significant problems with clogs.

How often do you print?

What is your climate like?

 

[v3cron]

My experience working in labs/print shops has been that the modern canon printers are less fussy and a little easier to get things to look right. The newish canon 310 in particular has really good feedback amongst friends for its price.

I was debating that one and the Epson, and just ended up ordering the Epson since the Canon was out of stock at my usual place. There is probably not enough difference to really worry about, based on what I read.

What is everyone using for paper? I bought a pack of the Ilford Gold Fibre Pearl to start with, based on a sample book I saw. Any other recs, specifically for black and white?