mw_uio
Well-known
Dakar.com
Jan 6th - Jan 21st
Not one BMW motorcycle in the event! KTM is the dominate model in the motorbike class. (The top 9 riders are all on KTM)
I believe that on US tv that it is shown on the SpeedVision Channel or ESPN and converage in Europe is wide spread.
Will you be watching?
There is something special about the Dakar ! So unpredictable !
Cheers
Mark
Quito, EC
Jan 6th - Jan 21st
Not one BMW motorcycle in the event! KTM is the dominate model in the motorbike class. (The top 9 riders are all on KTM)
I believe that on US tv that it is shown on the SpeedVision Channel or ESPN and converage in Europe is wide spread.
Will you be watching?
There is something special about the Dakar ! So unpredictable !
Cheers
Mark
Quito, EC
mwooten
light user
It's on the Versus channel in the US. The Dakar is one the most photogenic races/events I've ever seen on television.
Take care,
Michael
Take care,
Michael
mw_uio
Well-known
Those who are in the helicopter(s) have the best vantage point. When they show the motorcycles screaming on flat desert sand, that is the best!
Dakar is way better then F1!
Cheers
Mark
Quito, EC
Dakar is way better then F1!
Cheers
Mark
Quito, EC
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
Hi,
Sorry to be a real pain and a bit harsh, but I hate that race (and as a French guy, I'm ashamed the Paris-Dakar is a French race). It doesn't respect the countries it crosses and the people iving in those countries ... there are always always African children knocked over ... I do think it's deeply wrong, that's as simple as that; even if it's aesthetically a great race, it's just wrong, deeply wrong.
I prefer F1 for the only injured are the drivers: they take risks, they are responsible for their choice. But running cross African villages, knocking over people (or just ruining their crops) and giving stickers and caps as a consolation (I've seen that when I was living in Africa so I know what I'm talking about), that's irresponsible and unforgivable.
Just my opnion,
Best,
Marc-A.
Sorry to be a real pain and a bit harsh, but I hate that race (and as a French guy, I'm ashamed the Paris-Dakar is a French race). It doesn't respect the countries it crosses and the people iving in those countries ... there are always always African children knocked over ... I do think it's deeply wrong, that's as simple as that; even if it's aesthetically a great race, it's just wrong, deeply wrong.
I prefer F1 for the only injured are the drivers: they take risks, they are responsible for their choice. But running cross African villages, knocking over people (or just ruining their crops) and giving stickers and caps as a consolation (I've seen that when I was living in Africa so I know what I'm talking about), that's irresponsible and unforgivable.
Just my opnion,
Best,
Marc-A.
mwooten
light user
Marc-A. said:
Thanks Marc -- your words have made me rethink my enjoyment of the Dakar. My parents' families were farmers, and I know that they would be up in arms (literally) if a group of 'foreigners' drove through their farms. I don't think I'll watch this year.
Take care,
Michael
mw_uio
Well-known
"1500 kilograms of food per day (of which 70 % was purchased in Africa)" for the rally......that helps these people who live in the region.
Have you read about the HUMANITARIAN AID that is given each year?
http://www.dakar.com/2007/DAK/presentation/us/r2_2-l-humanitaire.html
Mark
Quito, EC
Have you read about the HUMANITARIAN AID that is given each year?
http://www.dakar.com/2007/DAK/presentation/us/r2_2-l-humanitaire.html
Mark
Quito, EC
Hiyawaan
Particular Individual
Paris-Dakar is great. If people stand in the way or any where near the course they take the risk. You see it in rally all the time, people standing on the side of the road running for their life when the car loss it. It really makes you feel part of it. I was nearlly hit in the Acropolis rally, I've never felt so conected to the men and women who race. The race also bring the people and countries it passes thru to the attention of the world. If you want to complain about something complain about how British and French colonialism has affect millions of Africans.
Carlos Cruz
Established
...If you want to complain about something complain about how British and French colonialism has affect millions of Africans ...
and how postcolonial politics is still ruining it
and how postcolonial politics is still ruining it
peter_n
Veteran
As a former rally driver I thoroughly disliked people on the course. Luckily I did not drive at a particularly high level so there were rarely people to hit but even at autocross events I worried about spectators. How can you not?
Screwy
All the gear no idea
Hey Marc-A , I'm pretty sure no one was attacking you , more pointing out that Africa is a complex country with complex problems and some of those problems are historical .
When it comes to the Paris-Dakar you have to remember that it's a commercial endeavour , The entry fee for a motorcyclist is £10,000 ($19,579.00) and if he wants to take a mechanic it's a further £6000($11,748.00) what the car and truck drivers are paying is any one's guess . As far as I'm aware the rally route aims to miss populated area's , Unfortunately human nature say's that when I driver gets lost , he's going to follow the first dirt track he comes to which is how these tragic accident's happen , As for compensation or lack of it , that's something best taken up with the rally organisers but I do know that participants have been arrested by local police in the past after accidents .
Paul
When it comes to the Paris-Dakar you have to remember that it's a commercial endeavour , The entry fee for a motorcyclist is £10,000 ($19,579.00) and if he wants to take a mechanic it's a further £6000($11,748.00) what the car and truck drivers are paying is any one's guess . As far as I'm aware the rally route aims to miss populated area's , Unfortunately human nature say's that when I driver gets lost , he's going to follow the first dirt track he comes to which is how these tragic accident's happen , As for compensation or lack of it , that's something best taken up with the rally organisers but I do know that participants have been arrested by local police in the past after accidents .
Paul
Hiyawaan
Particular Individual
Marc-A,
my comment was not meant as an "attack" on you and I'm sorry that you perceived it that way.
The point I was trying to get across was that there are other things going on in Africa that are much more detrimental to the life of the African people than a race which for the most part does a lot of good for the countries it passes through by bringing those people to the attention of the western world. MW_UIO provides a link and I re-post it here: http://www.dakar.com/2007/DAK/presentation/us/r2_2-l-humanitaire.html
My statement does not in anyway infringe on your right to hate the race, hate who/what you want. Personally I'm an equal-opportunity hater, I hate everybody equally.
IMO Paris-Dakar is like Frosties, GREAT!!! It brings people together in the spirit of competition and pits man/woman & machine against the toughest environments and obstacles on this earth and in our heads. It requires teamwork, courage, dedication and friendship to compete and luck to finish ahead of the pack, just as in life. You make it sound as if they purposefully drive through mud huts with a point system for the kids and crops they hit. The fact is that the Dakar does more good than harm. And if less people watch it, less companies will sponsor it, the little aid that comes from the Dakar will dry up and more people will die.
Oh yeah you are "a real pain and a bit harsh" but thats you problem.
Just my opinion,(except for what's in quotes, those are yours)
Alex
my comment was not meant as an "attack" on you and I'm sorry that you perceived it that way.
The point I was trying to get across was that there are other things going on in Africa that are much more detrimental to the life of the African people than a race which for the most part does a lot of good for the countries it passes through by bringing those people to the attention of the western world. MW_UIO provides a link and I re-post it here: http://www.dakar.com/2007/DAK/presentation/us/r2_2-l-humanitaire.html
My statement does not in anyway infringe on your right to hate the race, hate who/what you want. Personally I'm an equal-opportunity hater, I hate everybody equally.
IMO Paris-Dakar is like Frosties, GREAT!!! It brings people together in the spirit of competition and pits man/woman & machine against the toughest environments and obstacles on this earth and in our heads. It requires teamwork, courage, dedication and friendship to compete and luck to finish ahead of the pack, just as in life. You make it sound as if they purposefully drive through mud huts with a point system for the kids and crops they hit. The fact is that the Dakar does more good than harm. And if less people watch it, less companies will sponsor it, the little aid that comes from the Dakar will dry up and more people will die.
Oh yeah you are "a real pain and a bit harsh" but thats you problem.
Just my opinion,(except for what's in quotes, those are yours)
Alex
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Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
Thanks for your words, Paul.
Nothing to add, Alex.
Best,
Marc
Nothing to add, Alex.
Best,
Marc
mw_uio
Well-known
Alex,
thanks, for that....yeah if you really look at the Dakar, it brings in a ton of cash, and it does help the African countries.... no doubt.
I argue that the roads that the riders drive on are the roads that the local people use not on their fields. No way Dakar and the host countries would allow that.
The host countries love the Dakar.
Has anyone downloaded any of the rules of the Dakar. They are very strict, especially on the speed limits in villages. It is not like in the beginning in 1979 and the starter official said go and everyone went wild in the desert running over everything in sight.
This year alone, the organizing body had to make cuts on the number of entrants as there were so many.
For those you hate it Dakar, that is fine. But it does not hurt Africa! It does not have anything to do with neo-colonialism!
Do you know how many visas are issued to enter into each nation? Extra cash is made for the African nations, do you think that they would turn this down.
70% of the food is purchased locally.
If you do not like the Dakar, then go watch the preppy Lacoste wearing sailors who sail in America's cup!
How can you hate those Schlesser buggies!
"580 hours of television coverage in 178 countries "
Dakar IMO is the best!
Cheers
Mark
Quito, EC
thanks, for that....yeah if you really look at the Dakar, it brings in a ton of cash, and it does help the African countries.... no doubt.
I argue that the roads that the riders drive on are the roads that the local people use not on their fields. No way Dakar and the host countries would allow that.
The host countries love the Dakar.
Has anyone downloaded any of the rules of the Dakar. They are very strict, especially on the speed limits in villages. It is not like in the beginning in 1979 and the starter official said go and everyone went wild in the desert running over everything in sight.
This year alone, the organizing body had to make cuts on the number of entrants as there were so many.
For those you hate it Dakar, that is fine. But it does not hurt Africa! It does not have anything to do with neo-colonialism!
Do you know how many visas are issued to enter into each nation? Extra cash is made for the African nations, do you think that they would turn this down.
70% of the food is purchased locally.
If you do not like the Dakar, then go watch the preppy Lacoste wearing sailors who sail in America's cup!
How can you hate those Schlesser buggies!
"580 hours of television coverage in 178 countries "
Dakar IMO is the best!
Cheers
Mark
Quito, EC
back alley
IMAGES
gentlemen, we are a photo forum...i'm sure you can find a political car rally forum somewhere on the net...
thank you.
joe
thank you.
joe
Hiyawaan
Particular Individual
You know what pisses me off...
about KTM is that they refused to give Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman bikes for their Long way around trip/show. That was a huge mistake IMO, just from the free publicity alone. I know a couple of bikers who bought Beemer's just cause they dream that one day they might attempt something like that. I told them KTM's would be better but they seemed pissed at KTM, like KTM did it to them personally. I'd like to go around our little planet on Vespa, I'm sure it'd make it even a Papaki (greek word for this little utilatarian motorcycles that are between 50 and 125 cc) those things can do millions of kilo's no problem too. And if you get stuck you can pick it up by yourself.
Back to Dakar, I love it! They get lost, they crash, they jump, dust flies it's awesome. It's not boring to watch. F1 today is crap for the most part, the starts are good then it get repetitive and boring. I usually walk away after the start and do other things around the house until the end to see the scores. It's not a race between the drivers any more but managers. I get the feeling that the cars can almost drive themselves, it used to be good but not anymore. Still its better than Indy 500 where they drive i circles really fast. What the hell is the deal with that? Do they switch direction or is it alway the same?
And as for the America's cup, I like sailing but not watching sailing unless is topless Womans sailing.
about KTM is that they refused to give Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman bikes for their Long way around trip/show. That was a huge mistake IMO, just from the free publicity alone. I know a couple of bikers who bought Beemer's just cause they dream that one day they might attempt something like that. I told them KTM's would be better but they seemed pissed at KTM, like KTM did it to them personally. I'd like to go around our little planet on Vespa, I'm sure it'd make it even a Papaki (greek word for this little utilatarian motorcycles that are between 50 and 125 cc) those things can do millions of kilo's no problem too. And if you get stuck you can pick it up by yourself.
Back to Dakar, I love it! They get lost, they crash, they jump, dust flies it's awesome. It's not boring to watch. F1 today is crap for the most part, the starts are good then it get repetitive and boring. I usually walk away after the start and do other things around the house until the end to see the scores. It's not a race between the drivers any more but managers. I get the feeling that the cars can almost drive themselves, it used to be good but not anymore. Still its better than Indy 500 where they drive i circles really fast. What the hell is the deal with that? Do they switch direction or is it alway the same?
And as for the America's cup, I like sailing but not watching sailing unless is topless Womans sailing.
Nando
Well-known
As a car enthusiast, I think that the race itself is really spectacular. However there are serious problems with it, especially in the way the race has affected the locals in Africa. The dust and debris caused by the racing vehicles and have injured and killed livestock. The locals make very little money off the rally. Even the Vatican is against the rally as they feel it is a vulgar display of wealth in one of the poorest areas of the world.
It is a real pity. I firmly believe that the truest form of motorsport is that where the course is completely determined by the landscape. That's why I prefer rallying to series like F1, where most of the tracks are not effected by the landscape. I find rallies like the Dakar and the old Safari rally quite romantic but I think that they would have to be completely reorganized so that the locals would receive much more benefits and so that the race has less interference with farmers.
I haven't heard too many problems with the Baja 1000 race in Mexico in terms of the negative effects the race has on the environment and on farmers. However, the locals in Mexico are known to have set up booby-traps for the cars so perhaps there are some that do not like the race.
Also this just a minor peeve of mine but the rally is no longer the Paris-to-Dakar Rally - it is just the Dakar Rally. In the last 10 years, Paris only hosted the start of the rally twice. It is still 'French' though as it is organized by the ASO, the French sporting organization that also organizes the Tour de France bicycle race.
It is a real pity. I firmly believe that the truest form of motorsport is that where the course is completely determined by the landscape. That's why I prefer rallying to series like F1, where most of the tracks are not effected by the landscape. I find rallies like the Dakar and the old Safari rally quite romantic but I think that they would have to be completely reorganized so that the locals would receive much more benefits and so that the race has less interference with farmers.
I haven't heard too many problems with the Baja 1000 race in Mexico in terms of the negative effects the race has on the environment and on farmers. However, the locals in Mexico are known to have set up booby-traps for the cars so perhaps there are some that do not like the race.
Also this just a minor peeve of mine but the rally is no longer the Paris-to-Dakar Rally - it is just the Dakar Rally.
In the last 10 years, Paris only hosted the start of the rally twice. It is still 'French' though as it is organized by the ASO, the French sporting organization that also organizes the Tour de France bicycle race.
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Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
back alley said:
Sorry Joe. Delete my messages when you think they're inappropriate. :angel:
Marc-A.
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
Nando said:Also this just a minor peeve of mine but the rally is no longer the Paris-to-Dakar Rally - it is just the Dakar Rally.
I learnt something, thanks Nando
Marc-A.
PS: your point is very sensible.
Nando
Well-known
Hiyawaan said:
The deal with oval track racing in the United States is that it is the tradition. The Romans did not come to North America and built roads everywhere. So in the earliest ages of automobile racing in Europe, they raced on roads. In the United States and Canada, there were not many suitable roads but there were oval horse-racing tracks. And unlike the tracks in the UK that had grass, tracks in the USA and Canada had dirt, which was suitable for automobile racing. So that's where many automobile races took place. Over time, the horse-racing tracks changed and became specialized for just automobile racing but retained the oval shape. Oval track racing has been a great tradition ever since.
Whether it is exciting to watch or not, its really up to the viewer. I can tell you that attending an Indy 500 race in person is wonderful and I will guarantee anybody, whether they like Indycar racing or not, will be entertained and will have a great time. There are several advantages to oval tracks like Indy for a spectator, the big one for me is that I can see the entire track all the time. With the aid of some binoculars, you can see all the passing and many other various events that happen during a race. This is not true in F1 as spectators can only see a bit of the track and if you attend a rally its even worse - you just see every car pass the same spot and you can't even tell how they are doing. Before the advent of television, often the most exciting thing about a Grand Prix race or a world class rally was not witnessing it but reading about it in a newspaper after it was all over. As for the athleticism and skills of the race car drivers in oval track racing or the techno-wizardry used in the racing cars, it is completely determined by the constraints of the racing series and its rules. It takes lots of skill to drive 200+ mph at Talladega with your opponents a only few centimetres to the side, the front and the rear of your car. It also takes a very robust car to last 500 miles (800 km) at wide-open throttle. I'm a rally and road-racing fan first and foremost, but I have the highest respect for oval track racing.
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Hiyawaan
Particular Individual
Thanks for the info on the indy 500 Nando, I always wondered why they went in circles. You make it sound so logical. God bless the romans and their roads. Roads they used to go to other countries and kill people. Seems the Dakar is keeping the tradition alive a well.
Mr Moderator Joe,
thank you for doing what you do, really, what do you do? I kid, you guys are great! this site is great! and the Dakar is great!
Now how did it go...50 points for a ox, 75 if it's pulling a cart, 250 for a hut, 500 for...
Mr Moderator Joe,
thank you for doing what you do, really, what do you do? I kid, you guys are great! this site is great! and the Dakar is great!
Now how did it go...50 points for a ox, 75 if it's pulling a cart, 250 for a hut, 500 for...