Dating Contax IIa/IIIa bodies

[dll927]

This type of information can be tricky to come up with. Unless the company kept running records of serial numbers (a la Leitz/Leica), anything else may be at least partly speculation. And going that far back, before recalls and lawyers got into the act, probably makes it even more iffy. Someone would have to be able to delve into company records, undoubtedly the only reliable source.

In the case of Contax, it moved around a time or two, and there were even duplicate companies for a while. Then the Soviets robbed that cradle.

According to apparently reliable info, Soviet cameras' serial numbers started (the first two digits) with the year of manufacture. How reliable the cameras themselves were seems to depend on how much vodka the boys consumed the night before.

 

[flashover]

ok what's the diif between the Mechanical sync and PC sycn. My IIIa has a T ser number it's the color dial

 

[flashover]

Hum ok Ser Number T36748 camera is IIIa color dial with PC connection on back below meter adjustment screw. But ser number matches mech sync from 1952?


Contax IIIa, mechanical sync

Letter, Number series, Production dates
T, 35,001-40,000, 3/1951 to 7/1952
V, 20,001-25,000, 7/1952 to 10/1952
Y, 52,001-57,000, 11/1952 to 3/1953
A, 53,001-63,000, 4/1953 to 10/1953

Contax IIIa, PC sync

Letter, Number series, Production dates
B, 95,001-100,000, 11/1953 to 9/1954
C, 1-5,000, 10/1954 to 2/1955
D, 76,001-86,000, 3/1955 to 1/1956
F, 25,001-30,000, 2/1956 to 8/1956
L, 75,001-85,000, 7/1956 to 7/1961
O, 86,001-91,000, 11/1956 to 7/1957
Q, 1 to 25, 1960
R, 34.001-38,000, 2/1961 to 8/1962

 

[rover]

The color dial cameras have standard PC flash connections. BD have a proprietary mechanical flash with require a special cable.

 

[flashover]

ok but the serial number matches a mech sync camera from 1952 Is there cross over between the two models? The serial number is the same on the shoe and inside the body.

 

[FrankS]

Your camera may have been converted to PC sync. No problem.

 

[flashover]

just wondered if there was agrey area in the models. From what I read there is internal differances between the mech sync and PC sync cameras. Oh the PC does work on my cameras. Oh well it takes nice pictures either way.

 

[HuubL]

Max, sounds like 1936.

So my new III #E39812 would be from 1939??

 

[furcafe]

According to the Foto Saga book cited by Stephen Gandy:

http://www.cameraquest.com/zconrf2.htm

the E series dates to approximately 1937.

So my new III #E39812 would be from 1939??

 

[HuubL]

According to the Foto Saga book cited by Stephen Gandy:

http://www.cameraquest.com/zconrf2.htm

the E series dates to approximately 1937.

Wow... Thanks for checking. 70 years old! And still looking like a young lady! I'll try to post her portrait shortly.

 

[HuubL]

Wow... Thanks for checking. 70 years old! And still looking like a young lady! I'll try to post her portrait shortly.

Check out the 'Show off your Contax' thread...

 

[raid]

Frank S, good idea. Data is taken from "On the Trail of the Contax, Volume II" by Hans-Jurgen Kuc. For some reason, the table gets knocked out of format when posted, although it was fine when I typed it up in the message interface. I'll see if I can make it a sticky, too


Contax IIIa, mechanical sync

Letter, Serial Number, Production dates
A, 53,001-63,000, 4/1953 to 10/1953

Thanks, Mark.
My IIIa dates back to 1953.
IIIa with CZJ 135mm/4 Sonnar with Leitz Polarizer-Hood and KMZ Turret Finder.

 

[Letien]

I've neglected to mention that I have a copy of both the post-war Thiele listing and the book by John Keesing, as well. The dating is very approximate, as the SN's were released in large batches. I would guess some batches were used over a period of several years. Still, it's better than no information.

I also found one lens that didn't fit the listings, and some info in Keesing. No additional answers on a request for information here several weeks ago. Evidently not a common item.

Will be glad to provide what I can on anything from the 1950's, except the Jena, which are in an additional book that I don't own. I cover the Carl Zeiss or Zeiss Opton's only.

Harry

Hi Harry,
I just got my first contax from a fellow RFFer. Would you please let me know the date of this lens: Sonnar 1:2 f=50mm T Carl Zeiss Jenna Nr. 3501328, and it come with a IIIA # L76699.
What confused me that this lens is coated T lens in chrome while people often say only (East German) pre-war lens are chrome and only post war lens are coated.
So I would be appreciate if some one can tell me the relative age of this lens.

 

[furcafe]

Harry specifically noted that he can't help w/the Jena lenses as he doesn't have that book. FYI, Carl Zeiss Jena lenses were "T" coated starting in the late 1930s & during WWII, & were also coated after WWII, when Jena became part of "E. Germany" & were also produced in "W. Germany" in Oberkochen under 1st the "Zeiss-Opton" & later the "Carl Zeiss" labels after the Zeiss empire split up.

As far as mounts, to simplify things, before WWII, the CZJ lenses were all heavy chrome on brass (though early lenses for the original Contax I also had black enamel finish in addition to the chrome). During the war, as brass & chrome supplies were diverted to military use, Zeiss put many lenses into mixed alloy & brass or all-alloy mounts. After WWII, the "E. German" CZJ lenses tended to be put into lightweight aluminum alloy mounts, not that different from the Ukrainian Jupiters, though some in the immediate post-war period can be in a mix of brass & alloy like some wartime lenses. The post-WWII Zeiss-Opton & Carl Zeiss, i.e., W. German Zeiss lenses, were all in chrome & brass mounts (different & not as heavy as the pre-WWII Jena lenses).

Your Sonnar is definitely post-WWII, but for a more definitive answer, you should post your serial #s to the Zeiss Ikon Collectors Group (ZICG):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZICG/

It is my understanding that because of differences in trademark enforcement & incentives to get around price maintenance rules (in the U.S., camera bodies often couldn't be sold @ a discount unless bundled w/a 3rd party lens, which would include an E. German lens @ the time), the E. German Sonnars were more commonly sold/found in the U.S. than in Europe.

Hi Harry,
I just got my first contax from a fellow RFFer. Would you please let me know the date of this lens: Sonnar 1:2 f=50mm T Carl Zeiss Jenna Nr. 3501328, and it come with a IIIA # L76699.
What confused me that this lens is coated T lens in chrome while people often say only (East German) pre-war lens are chrome and only post war lens are coated.
So I would be appreciate if some one can tell me the relative age of this lens.

 

[dexdog]

Hi Harry,
I just got my first contax from a fellow RFFer. Would you please let me know the date of this lens: Sonnar 1:2 f=50mm T Carl Zeiss Jenna Nr. 3501328, and it come with a IIIA # L76699.
What confused me that this lens is coated T lens in chrome while people often say only (East German) pre-war lens are chrome and only post war lens are coated.
So I would be appreciate if some one can tell me the relative age of this lens.

According to Hartmut Thiele's book, you Sonnar is part of a batch completed/delivered January 25, 1951

 

[harry01562]

Hi Harry,
I just got my first contax from a fellow RFFer. it come with a IIIA # L76699.

As mentioned, I don't have the data on the Jena lenses. Your body was part of a group of 10,000 released to production between 7/1956 and 7/1961. Those numbers ran from 75,001 to 85,000, so your body was among the early ones in the group. Your Contax is one of the colored dial later model. A very nice camera to use.

Harry

 

[Letien]

Thank you all for the valuable info. Now I am looking for a place to CLA. There is a camera shop near my home that can handle classic cameras but I have to wait until Monday to know if the tech still want to work on Contax IIIA.
Thanks

 

[dexdog]

Thank you all for the valuable info. Now I am looking for a place to CLA. There is a camera shop near my home that can handle classic cameras but I have to wait until Monday to know if the tech still want to work on Contax IIIA.
Thanks

Don't know where you are, but if the USA, Eddy Smolov in NYC works on Contax cameras. I think that Raid Amin had a camera CLA'd there, and was quite happy with the service.

 

[Tim N Calif]

Advice Request: Contax Model and Value

Advice Request: Contax Model and Value

Advice requested, opinions welcome:

I ran into this Contax RF at an estate sale auction while overseas. Sorry for the lousy image, I'm stuck with only a cell phone camera. Can anyone advise what I am looking at (I, II, II or other model), and the reasonable market value. The body is good - excellent shape, with some minor bright marks and scratches, but no dings or dents. The lens is a Sonnar 1.5 50mm and surfaces looks nice, except for dots inside, which I unfortunately suspect is fungus.

I confess ignorance here, as I'm shooting a Leica M and Hexar AF, and have no experience with Contax or Zeiss cameras. The only number I can find in stamped on the accessory shoe "30056" and inside the lens rim "Nr 716217" Am I correct in assuming the lens is fixed to the body?

Compared to my used M, the lens movement is loose and rough, as it makes sound when moving.

Reasonable price range for this? Or would you simply take a pass, given the apparent fungus inside the glass?

Thanks, Tim SF

 

[xayraa33]

Advice requested, opinions welcome:

I ran into this Contax RF at an estate sale auction while overseas. Sorry for the lousy image, I'm stuck with only a cell phone camera. Can anyone advise what I am looking at (I, II, II or other model), and the reasonable market value. The body is good - excellent shape, with some minor bright marks and scratches, but no dings or dents. The lens is a Sonnar 1.5 50mm and surfaces looks nice, except for dots inside, which I unfortunately suspect is fungus.

I confess ignorance here, as I'm shooting a Leica M and Hexar AF, and have no experience with Contax or Zeiss cameras. The only number I can find in stamped on the accessory shoe "30056" and inside the lens rim "Nr 716217" Am I correct in assuming the lens is fixed to the body?

Compared to my used M, the lens movement is loose and rough, as it makes sound when moving.

Reasonable price range for this? Or would you simply take a pass, given the apparent fungus inside the glass?

Thanks, Tim SF

it is a Contax IIa from the photo.
since you did not post a rear and top view photo, the body serial # will be used to ID it further.

the serial # place it as a colour dial from 1956/57, going by dexdog's list.
these had the normal PC socket for flash sync.