David Alan Harvey on Leica M10 and iPhone

[leicapixie]

While appreciate DAH's photography a lot, I much, much prefer the work he was shooting on Leica and Kodachrome to the current work he is producing with digital tools - just sayin' 😎 I can even spot those (occasionally posted) images on his Instagram feed (even before reading the details).
.

Like many Photographers who worked solely with Kodachrome, occasionally Tri-X for BW,
the NEW work basically is inferior.
I totally agree with that part of statement.
Phone cameras only work for me, if there is a shutter button!
My fingers do NOT make contact on screen!:bang:

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Magnum, shmagnum...
I prefer photos and photographers on Leica Blog. Where it is more about photography as art, but not about photography as instrument for pushing of agendas and politics.

As for continuous glorification of iPhone here... It is already mentioned here before, it costs same or more as Ricoh GR II or latest Fuji offerings with touch screen, which comparing to Apple will work for ten years. While Apple makes OS upgrades too heavy for phones which are four years old or older. Not deliberately, but because it is mobile phone, communication device and processing, signal gets heavier every year.

Sure iPhone will work somewhere in Brazil or Libya as camera. But where I am iPhone shuts itself down if temperature is just slightly bellow zero C. If -10C it is totally dead within few minutes and ... here is no spare battery.
And if some of Magnum iPhone photogs don't know this... iPhone as any phone must be kept at some distance from the body. While photo camera is safe to keep on my warm, pillow shaped and hairy belly 😀

 

[DominikDUK]

You can make good photographs with any camera and even without a camera (photograms). Cell phone cameras are good enough for many applications and you usally carry them with you. The drawback which also applies to compact cameras is the way you have to hold them.

Photography is about seeing and having a vision not about sharpness or pixel count. Toy cameras are absolutely sub-par in the sharpness department but with the right vision and the right circumstances they can be the best tool for the job, the same applies to cell phones.

DAH wanting to promote his workshop, I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[Nowhereman]

...The drawback which also applies to compact cameras is the way you have to hold them...

For some that is a feature and not a drawback. Moriyama Daido calls it "no finder" shooting. When still shooting film, he used the Ricoh GR1 and GR21 point-and-shoot cameras. These days he's shooting with small-sensor digital cameras. and likes to "no finder shooting." When I was shooting with the Ricoh GRD cameras, I never used an add-on viewfinder but prefer to use the LCD on the back of the camera to loosely establish an idea of the edges of the frame — and then looked directly at the subject when pressing the shutter. I felt that gave the best results for street photography.


Incidentally, Moriyama has said that he likes shooting digital because he can decide later whether to make it a color or B&W image. In his 2016 exhibition, Tokyo Color, at the Fondation Cartier, in Paris his digital color shots show a similar aesthetic to his high-contrast B&W. His earlier film color, was often had pale tonality, while his early digital color looked, well — digital. But I liked a lot the color shots at the Paris exhibition.
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Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

 

[bobbyrab]

Like all of these sort of statements, they're usually half true and half made for effect. So let's look at some big names and how an iPhone would have affected your appreciation of their work [select your own examples if these are not your bag].
So Bresson and Frank, I'd be quite happy for them to have shot with an iPhone and don't think it would change the core quality of the work. Salgado and Penn, no, I don't want their work to be downgraded to iPhone quality. Horses for courses and all that.

 

[Nowhereman]

bobbyrab - It seems you and Ko.Fe are taking this iPhone vs "real camera" too seriously! (The iPhone in ultra-cold weather?)

All you need to look at is the Libya Sugar book mentioned in post #56, which was shot with an iPhone 4 and won a major ICP book prize and the photographer went on to make a photojournalist career, becoming a member of Magnum. No one is advocating that smart phones should be an important photo journalist tool — for one, the shutter is too slow for much of this work. The real subject of DAH's admonition is that it's more important for an emerging photographer develop a way of seeing, rather than buying the "best" camera possible.
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Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

 

[PKR]

The phone camera has a presence in the Stock Photo business
https://www.selling-stock.com/ArticleCategory/camera-phone

 

[bobbyrab]

Oh I did watch the video, and thought his work was fantastic, a very talented eye. And to be honest I wouldn't question what he'd shot it on had I just looked at the images, they could have been taken with any number of cameras and I wouldn't know nor care which.
I suppose what I'm commenting on is the proliferation of little pat bumper sticker sayings that seem to be everywhere these days, that they convey a zen like wisdom when they just don't. I'd be surprised if anyone here really believes that a more expensive camera is going to improve their creativity so it's kind of stating the obvious but in a slightly patronising admonishment. The truth is that sometimes the equipment is important sometimes it isn't.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

bobbyrab - It seems you and Ko.Fe are taking this iPhone vs "real camera" too seriously! (The iPhone in ultra-cold weather?)

All you need to look at is the Libya Sugar book mentioned in post #56, which was shot with an iPhone 4 and won a major ICP book prize and the photographer went on to make a photojournalist career, becoming a member of Magnum. No one is advocating that smart phones should be an important photo journalist tool — for one, the shutter is too slow for much of this work. The real subject of DAH's admonition is that it's more important for an emerging photographer develop a way of seeing, rather than buying the "best" camera possible.
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Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine

No, the only guy who takes it serious here about iPhone is you. I don't care about DAH photogaphy at all and nor I care about most of photography which comes from Magnum these days.
All I care for is my photo of our kid sliding from me made fresh fallen show hill at our home backyard. This is the only treasure for me.
And this is where iPhone will fail in few minutes. Because it feels cold. Yet, my ten years old small DSLR which costs $200 will do it for me or 20$ digital P&S of same age as my (well, company paid) iPhone.

BTW, since then -10C has became "ultra-cold weather" ?

 

[cz23]

...I posted the same OP on LUF and the reaction was better, without the imputation of motives. But this, and "constant" you speak of is what makes this board often boring.

I've been posting photos on LUF a bit lately and appreciate that there is at least some reaction to image posts. Here it's pretty unusual, at least for what I post.

And I'm no fan of the Like concept, which LUF includes as a "Thanks" button. But at least it's acknowledgement that someone is actually looking at your posts.

John

 

[Nowhereman]

John - Yes. That's why I think a "thanks" button is useful. Look forward to seeing your film work, but I'm no fan of the LUF film thread — too heavy-handed, if you know what I mean.

 

[ferider]

True, but I think the point is that you should use what you have... most people (who are looking to do photography) have a phone cam.

No, the pitch is to spend US 3400 and one week for a work-shop. Suggested use of a phone cam is just a supporting argument that the work-shop is "worth it", to learn "Seeing". A very typical argument of a successful professional who runs around with thousands of dollars of gear but tells you that gear doesn't matter to achieve his results. I'm not saying it does for him, but it's none of his business if it does for anybody else. OK, so the camera is not important for good photos, fine. So if there is no correlation, why tell other people what not to buy ? When DAH interviewed Elliott Erwitt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GBFNbarPf8), did they discuss Erwitts collection of Leica gear ? Should they ?

Not everybody wants to become a Magnum photographer. And not everybody wants to hang out with a group of NY hipsters for a week (who else can afford it?). If or not we like DAH photos is a different matter alltogether.

For the price of admission, one can easily go on a photo trip somewhere, 1 week of Paris, Cuba, Hawaii, etc. And buy a new camera. So there 🙂

Roland.

 

[jsrockit]

No, the pitch is to spend US 3400 and one week for a work-shop.

That's quite the cynical way of reading into that though. Like PKR said elsewhere, just because you want to be part of the workshop, doesn't mean you will be. I think he seriously was talking more to the simple statement that the guy was saving for a new camera..... since he said "Best invest is to put yourself on a good project." and not "best invest is to put yourself in my workshop."

Suggested use of a phone cam is just a supporting argument that the work-shop is "worth it", to learn "Seeing".

Well, seeing is a very big part of photography.

A very typical argument of a successful professional who runs around with thousands of dollars of gear but tells you that gear doesn't matter to achieve his results.

Just because he uses better equipment, doesn't mean he can't use less... he does post quite a few good iPhone photos on his FB page.

I'm not saying it does for him, but it's none of his business if it does for anybody else. OK, so the camera is not important for good photos, fine.

I don't see his comment as so black or white... I see it more of a comment towards letting beginners know what is more important. We all like nice cameras... he does too. However, if you truly love photography, you would make photos with low end gear if you have to. Now, I get that the iPhone (or other similar smartphone) is not low end to many people, but it is ubiquitous enough to almost assume that most people in certain countries have one. I think the wisdom is use what you have now instead of waiting to learn when you have the right camera.

So if there is no correlation, why tell other people what not to buy?

I think it was a simple comment....not an agenda.

When DAH interviewed Elliott Erwitt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GBFNbarPf8), did they discuss Erwitts collection of Leica gear ? Should they ?

No, they probably wouldn't unless they are discussing his equipment. If they are discussing his photos, it doesn't matter...

Not everybody wants to become a Magnum photographer. And not everybody wants to hang out with a group of NY hipsters for a week (who else can afford it?).

Understood. However, many "hipsters" don't have money ...

For the price of admission, one can easily go on a photo trip somewhere, 1 week of Paris, Cuba, Hawaii, etc. And buy a new camera. So there 🙂

Right, nothing wrong with that avenue either. It depends on what you want out of your photography.

 

[CK Dexter Haven]

"Go to my book on Rio. Based on a True Story and tell me which pictures were taken with iPhone and which with Leica. I used both."

Ouch. I was a DAH fan until i saw that book. I loved his work on film, and i LOVE Rio de Janeiro. His Rio book was such a disappointment, and this statement by him just an unwelcome reminder. Not a very strong endorsement of either the Leica or the iPhone for that purpose. Go back to film, David!

 

[helen.HH]

No, the pitch is to spend US 3400 and one week for a work-shop. Suggested use of a phone cam is just a supporting argument that the work-shop is "worth it", to learn "Seeing". A very typical argument of a successful professional who runs around with thousands of dollars of gear but tells you that gear doesn't matter to achieve his results. I'm not saying it does for him, but it's none of his business if it does for anybody else. OK, so the camera is not important for good photos, fine. So if there is no correlation, why tell other people what not to buy ? When DAH interviewed Elliott Erwitt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GBFNbarPf8), did they discuss Erwitts collection of Leica gear ? Should they ?

Not everybody wants to become a Magnum photographer. And not everybody wants to hang out with a group of NY hipsters for a week (who else can afford it?). If or not we like DAH photos is a different matter alltogether.

For the price of admission, one can easily go on a photo trip somewhere, 1 week of Paris, Cuba, Hawaii, etc. And buy a new camera. So there 🙂

Roland.

+1 ... I Agree with You Roland !

 

[emraphoto]

Does it float? The camera I mean, not the pictures.

I have been told it does but to be honest, I've never been brave enough to try the theory out.

More in tune with the conversation though... I am a very lucky man. Amongst my network of friends are some fantastic photographers. People producing important work. What I have noticed though is that we never seem to discuss gear when we cross paths. The conversations, when photographic in nature, are almost always about ideas, aesthetics and so forth. No digital versus film. No prime versus zoom. No phone image printing size. If anything, how we show work or get it out to the audience seems the most important of discussions.

Anyhow, just an observation.

 

[KM-25]

Sorry if my IMHO is offending.

Does not offend me, it's the way it is when people are uninformed or take issue with someone saying that vision is more important than gear.

Even though this site is by far better than most in terms of sheer gearheaded insanity... it is still a gear centric forum so a post like the one shared here will be lost on a lot of people and ruffle feathers on others.

David is a friend of mine and has been my most influential mentor. In fact, he is the most legitimate and hard working mentor I know and is widely regarded as the best mentor photography has. He might be pushing the loft workshop more than usual because this is it, the place is getting sold and it is hard to say if he will be able to conduct a workshop like this given the easy access he has to key players in the industry who often show up as guest presenters or speakers.

He'll always be able to hold workshops in the Outer Banks but that is a long trek for a lot of busy industry types so this is really the last of its kind for now.

 

[ptpdprinter]

From the exchange, it sounded like DAH was just trying to talk the person into attending the workshop. I thought dissing the person's work on Instagram was petty.

 

[KM-25]

No, the pitch is to spend US 3400 and one week for a work-shop. Suggested use of a phone cam is just a supporting argument that the work-shop is "worth it", to learn "Seeing". A very typical argument of a successful professional who runs around with thousands of dollars of gear but tells you that gear doesn't matter to achieve his results. I'm not saying it does for him, but it's none of his business if it does for anybody else. OK, so the camera is not important for good photos, fine. So if there is no correlation, why tell other people what not to buy ? When DAH interviewed Elliott Erwitt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GBFNbarPf8), did they discuss Erwitts collection of Leica gear ? Should they ?

Not everybody wants to become a Magnum photographer. And not everybody wants to hang out with a group of NY hipsters for a week (who else can afford it?). If or not we like DAH photos is a different matter alltogether.

For the price of admission, one can easily go on a photo trip somewhere, 1 week of Paris, Cuba, Hawaii, etc. And buy a new camera. So there 🙂

Roland.

The guy said he would love to attend but could not because he was saving up for a $7,000 camera. So David did as David does and told him like it is....and like it or not, that IS the way it is.

I have been at this career for nearly 30 years and I still push like I am giving birth to triplets to get better. And I make damn good and sure I take a workshop with him every 4-5 years to get a read on where I am at visually speaking. By the way, there were no hipsters in ANY of the three workshops I have taken with DAH since I started doing that in 2007. None at Look3, none in his loft and none in Puerto Rico.

 

[PKR]

I have been told it does but to be honest, I've never been brave enough to try the theory out.

More in tune with the conversation though... I am a very lucky man. Amongst my network of friends are some fantastic photographers. People producing important work. What I have noticed though is that we never seem to discuss gear when we cross paths. The conversations, when photographic in nature, are almost always about ideas, aesthetics and so forth. No digital versus film. No prime versus zoom. No phone image printing size. If anything, how we show work or get it out to the audience seems the most important of discussions.

Anyhow, just an observation.

The only time I hear gear discussed is when one of my friends wants to borrow something from another. It's usually light stands or a flash head (most use same brand..handy). Otherwise it's all photography. During your period in the Mideast, I don't recall equipment coming up in our many email exchanges? It's simple, the interest is in the work not the tools.

Try your camera in the sink or bath tub maybe.