nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
This is something I would do if it really bothered me...
I would go and Rent an M9 then take it to the store and ask the salesman who refused to let you see his, if he would show you some of his lenses for your new camera...I would find that to be a fun day...
I guess some of you never test drove the car you have right now or walked inside your current home before buying it...did you date your spouse before you got married...???
It's a camera for the love of Michael...
I would go and Rent an M9 then take it to the store and ask the salesman who refused to let you see his, if he would show you some of his lenses for your new camera...I would find that to be a fun day...
I guess some of you never test drove the car you have right now or walked inside your current home before buying it...did you date your spouse before you got married...???
It's a camera for the love of Michael...
Phantomas
Well-known
To be honest, these are the types of dealers I'm happy to see loose out to internets. If I can't see/touch the camera and ensure it functions 100% on the spot, what is my incentive to go to a brick n mortar store vs ordering it cheaper on the internet? Wahwahwah, traditional stores are going out of business! Serves them right.
Hmmm, I'm sure you've made some supposedly unsound purchases somewhere too...
Do you really test 100% of a camera's functions in store before buying it? I thought most stores show a demo (for you to fondle and test) and then bring you out a boxed new one when you actually purchase it.
I Love Film
Well-known
I'll show you mine if you show me yours.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
What ever happened to those Restocking Fees...???
Post that up over your cash register...15% Restocking Fee on all Returned Items...
Post that up over your cash register...15% Restocking Fee on all Returned Items...
Phantomas
Well-known
If I buy in the store I'll buy the model that I've tried, if I can. Not 100% but at least some basic stuff like RF alignment and some basic functionality. I don't know, I haven't bought M9 nor will I, but for DSLRs for example stores here don't have a problem pulling a new one out of the box.
It's not even about the exact item you buy, even if you've done your research well... I've shot with a couple of analogue M models and know well what they are all about, I'd still want to hold an M9 because reading about it still doesn't compare to trying it, even if for a couple of minutes.
By the way, this doesn't mean I inspect most products that I buy, but I would certainly do that with an M9, given the amount of the reported problems. Coming home and having to send the camera in the same day wouldn't make me happy.
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Jamie123
Veteran
Having a demo camera might be an incentive for potential buyers but then again, it might not. He's got two in stock and chances are he's going to find buyers for both eventually.
That being said, customer care is everything for those small shops and if he managed to sell three instead of two he'd probably make up for the loss he's taking on the demo unit.
Since we're talking about small shops, I recently walked by a small camera shop that's specialised on Nikon gear. I saw that it had a few film Nikon SLRs for sale and wanted to find out how much they cost. They were, of course, terribly overpriced (maybe 4x the going rate on the internet) but while I was waiting to be served I listened to the conversation the shop owner had with a maybe 60 years old woman who was just buying a small digital P&S. He gave her his personal phone number and told her to call her night or day, any day of the week if she has any question about the camera. Now that's what I call customer care.
That being said, customer care is everything for those small shops and if he managed to sell three instead of two he'd probably make up for the loss he's taking on the demo unit.
Since we're talking about small shops, I recently walked by a small camera shop that's specialised on Nikon gear. I saw that it had a few film Nikon SLRs for sale and wanted to find out how much they cost. They were, of course, terribly overpriced (maybe 4x the going rate on the internet) but while I was waiting to be served I listened to the conversation the shop owner had with a maybe 60 years old woman who was just buying a small digital P&S. He gave her his personal phone number and told her to call her night or day, any day of the week if she has any question about the camera. Now that's what I call customer care.
rogerzilla
Well-known
I'd certainly want to handle it before buying. I might hate it, sell all the Leica lenses and go for a Nikon D700. KR says the shutter release is nothing like the mechanical film Leicas, for instance, and I've also never looked through a 0.68x viewfinder with six frames.
krötenblender
Well-known
Not me. (8,9,10 chars)
photogdave
Shops local
The small Leica dealer is in an especially precarious position. Does he err on the side of the Leica "collector" type of customer who will not even consider purchasing an item if the shrink-wrap on the box is askew, or does he favor the "shooter" type of customer who insists on making sure all his personal lenses are perfectly calibrated to this particular camera? Does the dealer allow the customer to try every body he has in stock to make sure it works satisfactorily with all his lenses?
Rock and a hard place!
Rock and a hard place!
Gary B
Established
I had not held an M9 and want'd to try it first with some of my non Leica wide angle lenses. When the Leica rep. came by the store that I go to and loaned one to one of the sales people he called me and asked me if I wanted to try the camera. I took the camera out of the store and tried the camera with 3 of my lenses. After viewing the shots I brought the camera back to the store and showed the sales person why I would not be buying a M9.
The sales person knows that he will sell me things in the future and I know that I will follow him to any other store that he might work for in the future.
My M8 works fine.
The sales person knows that he will sell me things in the future and I know that I will follow him to any other store that he might work for in the future.
My M8 works fine.
I'd say many M9 owners owned the M8 prior... some didn't. For those of us that had the M8, buying a M9 sight unseen was no big deal. Also, we're spoiled in NYC. There are at least 5 places I can go handle a M9 and I have a few aquantances who owned them before I did.
If I had never touched a digital M, I sure as hell would want to demo it too before dropping $7,000 - $8,000.
If I had never touched a digital M, I sure as hell would want to demo it too before dropping $7,000 - $8,000.
f16sunshine
Moderator
Was this an authorized Leica dealer?
Why would Leica not screen their dealers better. If this dealer can not afford to have his own demo or, turn enough business for Leica (or whomever) that the "give" him a demo, he should not be selling Leica or Canon, or whatever.. "Point of" sales are there so customers can get up into the product before turning of the coin. Otherwise there is no advantage over purchasing online.
Why would Leica not screen their dealers better. If this dealer can not afford to have his own demo or, turn enough business for Leica (or whomever) that the "give" him a demo, he should not be selling Leica or Canon, or whatever.. "Point of" sales are there so customers can get up into the product before turning of the coin. Otherwise there is no advantage over purchasing online.
peterm1
Veteran
I buy 90% of my camera gear from one dealer who I like and trust and who looks after me. With this sort of long term relationship that kind of issue is seldom, if ever, a problem. He knows if I am serious about buying something and even if I am not he will often encourage me to fondle the merchandise in the interest of potential future sales. As for me, if I am not serious but just want a look in the interests of curiousity, I will tell him so outright and he respects this.
I can see the point of view of many store owners. There are many tire kickers who just want to fondle the product. And many more who are serious buyers who want to try it out in person - then buy online. I do sympathise with these dealers but I must say I would never buy from one who told me I could not look at or hold the merchandise, especially if I were serious about buying.
You can never tell from how people look, either - I recall running into a guy in the street who came up to me discuss cameras (I was toting one at the time). I was inclined to give him short shrift as he looked kinda like he did not have two coins to rub together. But he was a serious guy who pulled from a daggy old messenger bag a top of the line full frame DSLR. Store owners should not judge a book by its cover either.
I can see the point of view of many store owners. There are many tire kickers who just want to fondle the product. And many more who are serious buyers who want to try it out in person - then buy online. I do sympathise with these dealers but I must say I would never buy from one who told me I could not look at or hold the merchandise, especially if I were serious about buying.
You can never tell from how people look, either - I recall running into a guy in the street who came up to me discuss cameras (I was toting one at the time). I was inclined to give him short shrift as he looked kinda like he did not have two coins to rub together. But he was a serious guy who pulled from a daggy old messenger bag a top of the line full frame DSLR. Store owners should not judge a book by its cover either.
SullyPCV
Newbie
Had it happen
Had it happen
Once a customer wanted to see the only M6 Silver we had in stock. In those days the cameras were in a sealed plastic bag. I told him that I was happy to show it to him, but it was the only one I had. I opened it, showed it to him and he said he'd like to buy one....but not that one because it had been opened! I reminded him that I opened it for him and he had an obligation to buy that one. Luckily he did, otherwise I would have had to drink two margaritas on the spot.
Nowadays, the cameras are no longer in a sealed bag and you can take it out to show, however, we are very careful if it is the only one. I like to keep a pair of cotton gloves around for people who what to handle brand new out of the box equipment, saves the time of cleaning oil off the glass and makes them understand that this is something very special and not some piece of junk that we have a million of in the back.
We do have an M9 that Leica gave us a discount on for use as a display, but we do a pretty good business with Leica so the cost is manageable. The smaller dealers are between a rock and a hard place.
Gotta love retail.
Jerry,
www.precision-camera.com
Had it happen
Once a customer wanted to see the only M6 Silver we had in stock. In those days the cameras were in a sealed plastic bag. I told him that I was happy to show it to him, but it was the only one I had. I opened it, showed it to him and he said he'd like to buy one....but not that one because it had been opened! I reminded him that I opened it for him and he had an obligation to buy that one. Luckily he did, otherwise I would have had to drink two margaritas on the spot.
Nowadays, the cameras are no longer in a sealed bag and you can take it out to show, however, we are very careful if it is the only one. I like to keep a pair of cotton gloves around for people who what to handle brand new out of the box equipment, saves the time of cleaning oil off the glass and makes them understand that this is something very special and not some piece of junk that we have a million of in the back.
We do have an M9 that Leica gave us a discount on for use as a display, but we do a pretty good business with Leica so the cost is manageable. The smaller dealers are between a rock and a hard place.
Gotta love retail.
Jerry,
www.precision-camera.com
250swb
Well-known
Absolutely I get the idea. Those buyers are the one's with one hand on their testicles and the other on their credit card.....which is another reason not to buy one that has been opened
Steve
Fraser
Well-known
When I bought my M9 I asked to see one handled it had a try for a few minutes then said yes I will buy one but not this one I'll have one still in the box
nakedcellist
Established
I went to a dealer in Amsterdam and they had no problems with me handling an M9. I really wanted to see how it felt in my hand (very nicely...). Deciding if you want to buy a camera is not only about "oh, nice specs, I'l take it". It very much has to do with the ergonomics and the tactile feel.
When I actually had the money, I wanted to buy it at their place, but unfortunately they where sold out so I ended up buying it somewhere else.
When I actually had the money, I wanted to buy it at their place, but unfortunately they where sold out so I ended up buying it somewhere else.
usayit
Well-known
This is ridiculous.... I bet a store that doesn't have a demo unit or even allow the product to be handled is loosing more business than the cost of having a demo unit. After all a box on the shelf does not sell nor does it build a client relationship. It shows distrust on the part of the retailer and provides zero incentive over a distant online retailer. A good dealer will carefully treat their demo units as well as products that are shown but not allowed to be used. Loyal customers will know this and have confidence in purchases (new, used, and demo'd) knowing they are backed by a good retailer.
Of course if a customer is known to mistreat them, they have ever right to protect their "investment". Customers who want to handle everything but rarely purchase. Customers who obviously don't respect the shop and their wares. For those that request they open a box and then ask to purchase another unopened unit... shame on you. The store just met you more than half way to close the deal. If you are still on the fence, let them know and let them make the decision to open the box or not.
Perhaps I'm just lucky to have this relationship with my local shops (they know me well). I can try any opened demo unit in the store often without asking. When the sales reps are busy, they simply hand me whatever I may be interested in and they'll even let me walk outside with it to take sample photos so I won't be bored waiting. This is how I bought the M9. This is how they sold me on the 50mm Asph several months later. I won't take advantage of them and ask for new boxes to be opened unless I am almost ready to make the purchase. Its a mutual respect.
I figure if a store can't put an investment into a demo unit or at least open the box, they probably are in over their heads.
Of course if a customer is known to mistreat them, they have ever right to protect their "investment". Customers who want to handle everything but rarely purchase. Customers who obviously don't respect the shop and their wares. For those that request they open a box and then ask to purchase another unopened unit... shame on you. The store just met you more than half way to close the deal. If you are still on the fence, let them know and let them make the decision to open the box or not.
Perhaps I'm just lucky to have this relationship with my local shops (they know me well). I can try any opened demo unit in the store often without asking. When the sales reps are busy, they simply hand me whatever I may be interested in and they'll even let me walk outside with it to take sample photos so I won't be bored waiting. This is how I bought the M9. This is how they sold me on the 50mm Asph several months later. I won't take advantage of them and ask for new boxes to be opened unless I am almost ready to make the purchase. Its a mutual respect.
I figure if a store can't put an investment into a demo unit or at least open the box, they probably are in over their heads.