eric4
Established
Nearly a month ago, I sold an Zuiko 24mm 2.8 to an ebay customer. The lens was in great condition and I sorta regretted selling for the auction price.
Now I'm really regretting it... The lens was shipped to a freight forwarder and it sounds like the customer just received his lens in Vietnam and is telling me the lens is scratched and dirty. He sent me some crappy cell phone shots of a flashlight hitting the elements at strange angles with some dust and a light scratch.
This is an obvious lesson on dealing with international customers who use freight forwarders, but what am I expected to do in a situation like this?
:bang:
Now I'm really regretting it... The lens was shipped to a freight forwarder and it sounds like the customer just received his lens in Vietnam and is telling me the lens is scratched and dirty. He sent me some crappy cell phone shots of a flashlight hitting the elements at strange angles with some dust and a light scratch.
This is an obvious lesson on dealing with international customers who use freight forwarders, but what am I expected to do in a situation like this?
:bang:
Maiku
Maiku
Contact eBay by phone to explain the lens was sent to a freight forwarder to see if that negates the buyer's claim. I do not know, but I wonder.
You mailed to the address provided by eBay and Paypal, so that protects you. Find out if the buyer violated eBay/Paypal policy by having it forwarded to another location.
If worse comes to worse tell the seller to ship it back at his own expense. I am sure they will balk, but be insistent. Put a bit of financial pain their pocket.
But again contact eBay. It can be done. You will get a one time code to input into their customer service system. If you feel unhappy with the customer service rep as for a manager. I have found eBay to better than reported on the net dealing with disputes.
Good Luck.
You mailed to the address provided by eBay and Paypal, so that protects you. Find out if the buyer violated eBay/Paypal policy by having it forwarded to another location.
If worse comes to worse tell the seller to ship it back at his own expense. I am sure they will balk, but be insistent. Put a bit of financial pain their pocket.
But again contact eBay. It can be done. You will get a one time code to input into their customer service system. If you feel unhappy with the customer service rep as for a manager. I have found eBay to better than reported on the net dealing with disputes.
Good Luck.
DNG
Film Friendly
was the selling price about right even with the so called issues?
Do you have GOOD photos of the front/back elements plus a see through photo at f/2.8 that shows the real condition? This is your only defense with ebay as far as the real condition before you shipped it.
Did you describe that the may have very small dust of and/or light scratches, that is expected with a older lens.
ebay stresses to give a good description that lists all issues or signs of use. That way if was described with dust and scratches, you should win the case if the buyer wants a refund because of a misleading (or lacking) description.
If you do have a description that is inclusive of any issues they brought up, you should be OK.
If not, you may be liable for refund.
not much help... but,, those are 2 options.
Do you have GOOD photos of the front/back elements plus a see through photo at f/2.8 that shows the real condition? This is your only defense with ebay as far as the real condition before you shipped it.
Did you describe that the may have very small dust of and/or light scratches, that is expected with a older lens.
ebay stresses to give a good description that lists all issues or signs of use. That way if was described with dust and scratches, you should win the case if the buyer wants a refund because of a misleading (or lacking) description.
If you do have a description that is inclusive of any issues they brought up, you should be OK.
If not, you may be liable for refund.
not much help... but,, those are 2 options.
eric4
Established
Here are the photos of the lens. The one on white is from my listing, the others are what he sent.
http://imgur.com/a/MYRQO#wOi48L4
I'm thinking I'll just offer him to send the lens back and I'll give him a refund when it is received. First I'll contact ebay though
http://imgur.com/a/MYRQO#wOi48L4
I'm thinking I'll just offer him to send the lens back and I'll give him a refund when it is received. First I'll contact ebay though
btgc
Veteran
ebay has to have educated persons in such cases. It's obvious buyer has made visual appearance of OK lens to look like piece of crap.
For example, another side should have to submit pictures comparable to what other side has. This seller clearly employs trickery of low res cellphone pics to show him a victim.
For example, another side should have to submit pictures comparable to what other side has. This seller clearly employs trickery of low res cellphone pics to show him a victim.
DNG
Film Friendly
looks like reflections through some patterned material ....
What is behind the lens? The buyer clearly has a patterned substance to reflect it's surface through the lens to make the lens look crappy.
What is behind the lens? The buyer clearly has a patterned substance to reflect it's surface through the lens to make the lens look crappy.
Vobluda
Well-known
Just appologize and ask for lens return and later refund.
Do not accept any proposal for partial refund.
If there is something wrong with the lens you will receive it back but I barely doubt.
Do not accept any proposal for partial refund.
If there is something wrong with the lens you will receive it back but I barely doubt.
blumoon
Well-known
Did the buyer have good feedback?
The lens looks good in your pic.
I wonder if he unscrewed the plastic ring with the info on it, and screwed it onto a crappy lens. Can't see much of the lens in his pics.
The lens looks good in your pic.
I wonder if he unscrewed the plastic ring with the info on it, and screwed it onto a crappy lens. Can't see much of the lens in his pics.
eric4
Established
He has ~45 positive 100% feedback.
I really struggle to see how this is possible. I remember this lens being in such great condition.
I just sent him an option to send the lens back, and I will refund him his order price when the lens is received in the condition it was sent.
Aristophanes
Well-known
I believe forwarding negates buyer protection and voids shipping policies and contracts. Your contract is binding if you ship it to x, not y.
If they used a freight forager then their shipping cost protection is void.
In any case they must return it to get a refund. They cost to return ship from their forwarded location.
eBay and PayPal make it very clear that shipping and location information must be accurate at all times in the transaction.
codester80
A Touch of Light
I would chalk this up as a lesson learned and make sure in future to always mention the lens is sold as-is with no guarantee against dust, small scratches, etc., due to the age of the equipment.
It might also be a good idea to contact Ebay about this issue. Maiku is right about the freight forwarder being a problem. I believe the fine print on Ebay says the seller is responsible for shipping to the address indicated in the sale. What happens after the package arrives at that address and is forwarded to another address is no longer the concern of the seller. It would be up to the buyer to prove the lens arrived at the original address in the (questionable) condition shown in the photos. This sounds like a case of buyers remorse.
It might also be a good idea to contact Ebay about this issue. Maiku is right about the freight forwarder being a problem. I believe the fine print on Ebay says the seller is responsible for shipping to the address indicated in the sale. What happens after the package arrives at that address and is forwarded to another address is no longer the concern of the seller. It would be up to the buyer to prove the lens arrived at the original address in the (questionable) condition shown in the photos. This sounds like a case of buyers remorse.
burancap
Veteran
Absolutely! Ask for the lens back and refund upon return. Stay within eBay guidelines to the point of calling and talking to a rep on the phone regarding the matter -ask to have your account noted of same. Be patient and pleasant.
Any way, run a light through most any new lens and stand back in horror -these types using it to gouge are just being unscrupulous. Shame on them, as I know from our dealings here that you are as upstanding and forthright as they come. I hope it works out for you.
Jockos
Well-known
Or confirm the actual condition of the equipment and write an honest ad?
Few things bug me out as much as the "sold as-is". If you cannot bother checking through the lens with a flashlight, you should not be qualified to sell stuff online.
colyn
ישו משיח
eBay will not recognize this as a valid description..
Always be honest and describe it as best as you can determine..
Seller: He could be setting you up for a partial refund scam. Do as others have said and only offer a full refund..
Huss
Veteran
Perfect, then tell him to send it back. You get the lens you regret selling, he gets satisfied.
Monochrom
Well-known
Hi, sorry to hear your deal didn´t end up well.
TRy to solve things with the buyer amicably.
Show yourself concerned and offer him full refund once the lens arrives safely.
Don´t fight with him.
Everytime you sell a lens check lenses with lights and let the buyer know every minimal detail on it. Never take things for granted beacuse there are buyers that are very easy going and other that are real full time experts.
Good luck!
TRy to solve things with the buyer amicably.
Show yourself concerned and offer him full refund once the lens arrives safely.
Don´t fight with him.
Everytime you sell a lens check lenses with lights and let the buyer know every minimal detail on it. Never take things for granted beacuse there are buyers that are very easy going and other that are real full time experts.
Good luck!
goamules
Well-known
These third world scuzbags really think they've figured out the global economy. I've had Asians hack ebay so they can bid on my items that I set up to prohibit to their country. I've had them beg to be allowed to bid, so I turn it on for them, then when they win they don't pay. I've had them ignore the shipping calculation and the text I put "I only ship via USPS Express, which is expensive but protects your investment" then complain when shipping to their country costs more than $4. I've had them back out of paying, then never reply again, making me wait the 2 week period before I can end it and get my fees back.
I put something like this in all my ebay auctions now: "Remember, this antique camera was made in the 1950s, when cars had fins, man didn't yet fly in space, and I Love Lucy was a current TV show! It's 60 years old. Because of ebay's new rules I have to state this is sold as is, for parts, and may not work as a brand new camera. It does have dust and a few handling marks. Please don't buy if you don't understand antique cameras have lubricants that gum up over the decades, and that they usually need a tuneup clean, lube, and adjust. "
I put something like this in all my ebay auctions now: "Remember, this antique camera was made in the 1950s, when cars had fins, man didn't yet fly in space, and I Love Lucy was a current TV show! It's 60 years old. Because of ebay's new rules I have to state this is sold as is, for parts, and may not work as a brand new camera. It does have dust and a few handling marks. Please don't buy if you don't understand antique cameras have lubricants that gum up over the decades, and that they usually need a tuneup clean, lube, and adjust. "
goamules
Well-known
For lenses, I put "....no major chips or scratches can be seen by the naked eye. This does not mean you can shine a bright LED flashlight through it and not see some dust and marks. All lenses have this, if they are older than 20 years old....Therefore this is sold for parts with no guarantee of glass clarity....blah"
Isn't it funny how ebay even tries to scare you from using language like "...for parts...as is..."? They LIKE seeing smalltime sellers get frustrated and leave. They want to be another Amazon, with sellers moving thousands of cheap, $5 items.
Isn't it funny how ebay even tries to scare you from using language like "...for parts...as is..."? They LIKE seeing smalltime sellers get frustrated and leave. They want to be another Amazon, with sellers moving thousands of cheap, $5 items.
eric4
Established
The guy got back to me saying he will bill me for the cleaning of the lens as it has to go to the camera shop.
I replied reiterating that he may send it back for a full refund, but I will not be offering him a partial refund.
I replied reiterating that he may send it back for a full refund, but I will not be offering him a partial refund.
Why? (Highlighted). How is this going to help under eBay's Buyer Protection Policy terms? We are living in a new world order now. This may have been relevant to Paypal claims. A buyer can make a claim under eBay's own scheme at present. Over to you.