Dear LeicaHeads

[BigSteveG]

I'm being tortured by GAS these days and even though my Contax G system works beautifully, I'm finding nitpicky little things wrong so I can convince myself to take the final plunge into Leicadom. Can anyone here push me over the edge?
Please offer your advice, experience on the following.

My "dream" kit:
M7 Body
35mm 1.4
75mm 1.4 (alternates are 90mm 2.0 or the TRi-Elmar.

questions:
1. which finder should I go with? (my eyesight isn't the greatest)
.72 (then use the 1.25x mag with the longer lens?) Should I continue w/ auto focus? I tried an M last weekend and love the way the image "snaps" into focus.

2. should I bother w/ the 1.4(s)? will 2.0 with a faster film do the trick? (evening concerts, architctural, journalistic type shots). My enlarging will probably not exceed 8x10 prints.

3. will I lose much sharpness with 1.4's? (please, no more about "bokeh" I assume the newer aspheric lenses offer a different look)

4. are the 1.4's much heavier than the 2.0's? are the aspherics heavier than pre-aspherics?

5. What problems are encountered in film loading? please offer your field experience?

6. Is the film counter easily readable?

7. so it's a very expensive undertaking....i want to use the thing, not treat it like a diamond tiara....any comments on field use? bumps...lumps...etc

your sage advice on any or all of my queries would appreciated greatly!!!

SteveG

 

[former member]

You do not have anything wider than a 35, I would go with the 0.85x finder. It will provide the 35mm view and give the extra baselength for the 75mm F1.4.

I'm sure the modern lens is lighter than my 85mm F2 Nikkor. On the M3. Bliss.

Film loading just takes a little practice.

You may want to invest in the ever-ready case. That helps keep bumps to minimum impact and gives you a place to put the bottom plate when reloading.

Try a newly CLA'd M3 before you commit. I have to say that. I'm the official Leica M3 spokesman here at RFF.

 

[jlw]

If you don't really, really need f/1.4 maximum apertures, how about the 35/2 and the new 75/2 Summicron? It's smaller and lighter than the 75/1.4, and normally sane reviewers absolutely drool about its performance.

If you need even less maximum aperture, want even less weight, and can bring yourself to spend a lot less money, don't discount the Cosina lenses. Both the 35/2.5 and the 75/2.5 have excellent performance reputations and are small and light.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

My "dream" kit:
M7 Body
35mm 1.4
75mm 1.4 (alternates are 90mm 2.0 or the TRi-Elmar.

Hmmmm... Do you find AE absolutely necessary? Not that there's anything wrong with it... but how about an M6TTL as an alternate? More mechanical, and hence more control.

Also, in the realm of lenses... you'll probably find better use for a handsome 90mm 'cron, or even the Elmarit 90/2.8. The Tri-Elmar... is way too slow for a RF lens (IMHO), and it would work more as a travel tool... but then, you might as well lug around an SLR with a slow zoom if you're thinking about the Tri-Elmar: same difference, far more costly.

1. which finder should I go with? (my eyesight isn't the greatest)
.72 (then use the 1.25x mag with the longer lens?) Should I continue w/ auto focus? I tried an M last weekend and love the way the image "snaps" into focus.

I vote for the 0.72. Highly versatile. You can use virtually any focal length. Make some room for a change of minde later!

2. should I bother w/ the 1.4(s)? will 2.0 with a faster film do the trick? (evening concerts, architctural, journalistic type shots). My enlarging will probably not exceed 8x10 prints.

Nope. Why? The VF is good enough at 0.72 and it allows it for pre-shoot cropping.

3. will I lose much sharpness with 1.4's? (please, no more about "bokeh" I assume the newer aspheric lenses offer a different look)

I don't think so. If you lost anything, that'd be the use of faster shutterspeeds and that can be alleviated with fast film.

4. are the 1.4's much heavier than the 2.0's? are the aspherics heavier than pre-aspherics?

No idea... Sorry here! 🙁

5. What problems are encountered in film loading? please offer your field experience?

Once you realize that it's the sprocket and not the spool the piece that really pulls the film you won't misload again. Practice makes perfect, true, but it also helps when you follow the manual and don't try to outsmart those German engineers. 🙂

6. Is the film counter easily readable?

To me, it is. And I wear bifocals.

7. so it's a very expensive undertaking....i want to use the thing, not treat it like a diamond tiara....any comments on field use? bumps...lumps...etc

They add personality and give the camera a je ne sais quoi that chicks really dig! 😀

Now... seriously, use it, it's a camera. It'll get some marks, but then, consider them a bond between you and the camera.

Even more seriously: it is a well known fact that silver bodies tolerate more than black chrome bodies.

your sage advice on any or all of my queries would appreciated greatly!!!

SteveG

You're most welcome! 😀

 

[vizioneer]

I have the .58 MP with 35 lux asph, both in chrome. I have a 75 lux that I will take delivery of the beginning of December. I like the idea of the flexibility of f/1.4- since I shoot mainly Provia 100 and FP4+. I also have the 1.25x magnifier I will use with the body for the 75 lux. I'm not going into detail about your other questions, other than the 75 lux can be had minty on the used market for about $1600 (or $1500 if you're luckier).

 

[vizioneer]

I wear glasses by the way. If I didn't I'd get the .72 viewfinder version. And the 1.25x mag..

 

[FrankS]

I'd pass on the tri-elmar too. It's size and weight are anti-thema to the whole RF advantage. Also as previously suggested, if you don't need AE automation, consider a used M6 or M6ttl and buy an extra lens. 35/50/90 is a tried and proven lens selection. F2 is fast enough IMO considering today's faster films. BTW, how old are you? If you want this purchase to be a lifetime investment, if you are younger than 50, I jsut can't see an M7 lasting you. (This is just my personal bias against electronic over mechanical cameras, and not based on any fact, other than the track record of other electronic gizmos compared to the perfectly operating 50 year-old mechanical Leica cameras that are still common today.)

 

[back alley]

if you're never going to enlarge past 8x10, then buy the cv 35/75 (2.5) combo & save your money.

joe

 

[vizioneer]

Well...I can see enlarger lens differences between Leica and Nikon, and there are other characteristics like bokeh etc. I don't think that not going beyond 8x10" should preclude Leica.

 

[celluloidprop]

I've got an M7/35mm 1.4 ASPH, wish I had held out to find a .58 viewfinder instead. Even without my glasses on, the 35mm lines are pretty close to the edge of the finder.

I find the aperture advantage invaluable - you can never catch up to it with film speed, since you can always use that film (Neopan 1600 for instance) in your 1.4 and shoot where it's even darker (or move up a shutter speed).

I don't know that I'd require an entire kit at 1.4, though. Perhaps a 35/2 and a 75/1.4? I'm comfortable with a 50 for shooting concerts - anything shorter than that would require me getting closer than I prefer.

You'll give up no sharpness at 1.4 - the ASPH 35mm only sells for a couple of hundred more than the non-ASPH (or it used to, maybe prices have gone up?) and is supposed to be one of the sharpest of the sharp.

Size-wise, don't believe the hype. I read about how big the new 'lux was before mine came in the mail and was worried. I shouldn't have been, the bloody thing is tiny. Not too small for my hands, but not as large as any SLR lens I own.

Film loading is dead simple (easier than any other manual camera I've used), never had a problem. I do have to keep a coin in my pocket to pop out the buttom catch as I chew my fingernails - normal folks shouldn't have any problem.

 

[back alley]

i don't believe in bokeh, i think it's the dumbest concept in photography i've ever encountered.
and please this is not new news from me and i'm not about to re-debate it.

enlarging lenses probably would have more impact that the differences between leica and cv lenses in an 8x10 print.
so i think you are right, buy cv lenses and a better enlarging lens, try to find an old fuji ep enlarging lens, they are great.

joe

 

[GeneW]

i don't believe in bokeh, i think it's the dumbest concept in photography i've ever encountered.
and please this is not new news from me and i'm not about to re-debate it.

enlarging lenses probably would have more impact that the differences between leica and cv lenses in an 8x10 print.
so i think you are right, buy cv lenses and a better enlarging lens, try to find an old fuji ep enlarging lens, they are great.

joe

Ya, but which enlarging lens has the best bokeh, El Nikkor or Schneider? 😀

Gene

 

[back alley]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Trius]

STOP GENE!!! The poor guy just had a heart event!

Trius

 

[Benjamin Marks]

My "dream" kit:
M7 Body
35mm 1.4
75mm 1.4 (alternates are 90mm 2.0 or the TRi-Elmar.
SteveG

Since you've set forth some pretty spendy gear there, I'm going to assume that money is no object. If you think that 35/75 is your dream kit, go for it. You'll find out soon enough whether it matches the way you see. And if $$ is no object, go for the fast glass and see how you like it. The 75 Summicron is supposed to be a great lens. I've got the 75/1.4 and I just love the images that thing produces. Having used an M6 0.72, M6 TTL 0.85 and an M7 0.72 I can say that they are all usable with the lenses you've listed.

questions:
1. which finder should I go with? (my eyesight isn't the greatest)
.72 (then use the 1.25x mag with the longer lens?) Should I continue w/ auto focus? I tried an M last weekend and love the way the image "snaps" into focus.
SteveG

The 0.85 finder will help with longer lenses. But a 35 is as wide as you'll go without an accessory finder. I am near-sighted and have mild astygmatism. The VF in a modern Leica has a minus lens in it, I think. Best to go to a store and check out a finder of each size to see what works with your eyes.

2. should I bother w/ the 1.4(s)? will 2.0 with a faster film do the trick? (evening concerts, architctural, journalistic type shots). My enlarging will probably not exceed 8x10 prints.
SteveG

IMHO you should have at least one fast lens. Whether you need two will depend on what kind of light you like to shoot in. 35/1.4 and 75/2 would be a very versatile kit.

3. will I lose much sharpness with 1.4's? (please, no more about "bokeh" I assume the newer aspheric lenses offer a different look)
SteveG

No.

4. are the 1.4's much heavier than the 2.0's? are the aspherics heavier than pre-aspherics?
SteveG

The faster lenses are heavier. You can check Leica for the specs. More speed=a bigger opening (this is part of the definition of an f-stop) and hence more glass, more metal to hold the glass etc.. None of the lenses you are thinking about will break your back.

5. What problems are encountered in film loading? please offer your field experience?
SteveG

Never misloaded one yet. Practice makes perfect. Compared to a Leica IIIa its a cinch. Don't let it keep you from buying an M.

6. Is the film counter easily readable?
SteveG

Yes. Assuming you have no problem reading ordinary text.

7. so it's a very expensive undertaking....i want to use the thing, not treat it like a diamond tiara....any comments on field use? bumps...lumps...etc
SteveG

The only problem I ever had with an M from a field use perspective is when I dumped my M6 on the marble floor of Union Station in D.C. The camera fell four feet, landed on the rewind crank and the whole thing was cockeyed. I think a drop onto marble on the corner of a camera would ding ANY precision optical device. The repair cost a couple of hundred dollars (always refasten those camera bag flaps, boys and girls) and the camera has been working great ever since (although the rewind crank is bent -- it still works).

your sage advice on any or all of my queries would appreciated greatly!!!
SteveG

My only attempt to edit your dream list above would be to pull for an M6 of any variety. True, the electronically timed shutter in the M7 is more accurate (and eerily quiet at the slow speeds if you are used to hearing the whirrr of a spring-driven slow-speed escapement). And there is also the issue of AE, which I assume is important to you or you wouldn't have fixated on the M7. But in terms of sheer durability (and of the ability to keep snappin' when your batteries die) the M6 provides a versatility and longevity (not to mention cost-savings) that are really impressive. Also (and I realize I have been longwinded on the topic already), the only send-it-back-to-the-factory problems that I have had with Leica equipment have been with the electronics in the cameras (dead magnets/switches in an R4s shutter, dead meter in an M6 and wonky DX-reading & meter problems with an M7). IMHO, electronics are just not Leica's strong suit, but their mechanicals keep clicking and clicking and clicking. . . you get the idea. I think that the M6's are an amazing deal right now.

The only other thing to say about this is that given the equipment you are considering, there are no bad choices. You just have to figure out what suits your photography style.

Is it worth asking why you aren't interested in the MP?

Ben Marks

 

[celluloidprop]

Another for consideration is the Konica Hexar RF - you get AE and autowinding, they seem to run about half the cost of an M6 body (1/3 the cost of a used M7 body) when you seem them on the auction site.

 

[peter_n]

Steve I have 2 M7s and an M6TTL, 0.72 and 0.85 mag also. Definitely go for the M7 it is a beaut. I love the AE and the cams are a snap to load (easier than my M6TTL). I use the 0.85 for the 50mm and up and the 0.72 for the 35mm and down. If I had to choose only the one mag it would be the 0.85, I can use a 28mm lens with it no problem (but I don't wear glasses or contacts).

You will not "lose sharpness" with a slower lens than f1.4. We're talking Leica here... 😉 I would only get the fast lens if you want the DOF effect as distinct from the speed, you can always get faster film. The f1.4 lenses are heavy, at least to me. I have a 50mm Summilux (pre-ASPH) and it and an M7 are tough to hold (I don't like the grip thingies). The 35mm is presumably much smaller and so probably lighter so if you must have a really fast lens I think that would be the one to get. The current 75mm Summicron is reviewed in the October issue of the British mag B&W Photography and the review is positive, if rather poorly written.

Film counter is as clear as a bell, and with respect to use, just take the plastic thing off the base and put a lens on it and throw it into your bag as if you'd had it for years. I don't get this "I'm scared to use it" stuff. If you're worried about that kind of thing buy used...

One thing if you are buying new - see if you can get a really good price on eBay - some dealers are moving "old" new stock - I picked a new one up a few weeks ago and will get a free Leicavit (which I don't want) so I can sell that and further reduce the price of the cam. Leica have a program that ends at the end of the year that if you buy a new U.S. Passport warrentied M you get a new Leicavit or motor winder for free. But you have to buy before the end of the year and get your form in for the Leicavit/winder offer before January 15. Good luck and you will love your M7!! 😀

 

[zpuskas]

I agree with several others...get a good M3 and some nice lenses---you can always upgrade to M7 later and sell the M3 for what you paid. The M3--mine is a DS--is a joy to hold and use.
I had a G2 system too. But while it is a very nice camera--very well made, very good lenses--I just got fed up with the auto-focus and all electronic everything. The Leica just fits my hands much better and I feel like it's an extension of me. Any Leica lens will do just fine.

 

[vizioneer]

Hey Backalley, how's about we have a comparison- a Voigtlander 75 vs. the 75 cron AA, tripod mounted with Pan F 50, printed the same conventionally. Close focused (or matched) and wide open (or matched). I don't think you wanna try this! 😉

 

[celluloidprop]

Yeah, but if you're shooting a lot of tripod-mounted Pan F, why bother with a Leica? Might as well break out the Bronica SQ or Crown Graphic if you're going to go through all of that. (My money is on the Crown.)

Tripod-mounting and slow-speed film is probably the least realistic measure of a RF telephoto lens.