Sailor Ted
Well-known
Trius,
I too am surprised at the lack of weather proofing- not so much the sensor-shaking thing.
My M8 roll out projection:
1st. Improved IR filter on the digital senor on par with that of the R-D1
2nd. A weather sealed version or an M8 MkII that replaces the M8 with weather proofing and possibly improved coatings on the RF for flare suppression.
3rd. An M9 probably in two years time from first roll out with an improved sensor though not necessarily a 1:1 crop factor.
Carnac the Magnificent has spoken : )
I too am surprised at the lack of weather proofing- not so much the sensor-shaking thing.
My M8 roll out projection:
1st. Improved IR filter on the digital senor on par with that of the R-D1
2nd. A weather sealed version or an M8 MkII that replaces the M8 with weather proofing and possibly improved coatings on the RF for flare suppression.
3rd. An M9 probably in two years time from first roll out with an improved sensor though not necessarily a 1:1 crop factor.
Carnac the Magnificent has spoken : )
Last edited:
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Mechanically it appears to be very sturdy.
The electronics...well, if there are any bugs they will be weeded out over time. But I am betting that they will be reliable in the long run.
But one thing the M8 is lacking, is true weather sealing. You can't just shoot with it in the the pouring down rain, like you can with highend Canon or Nikon cameras. The Leica rep told me it will stand up to high humidity (they are aware of the importance of the Asian market), but direct exposure to the rain is a no, no.
I'm still puzzled why Leica didn't seal the camera.
The electronics...well, if there are any bugs they will be weeded out over time. But I am betting that they will be reliable in the long run.
But one thing the M8 is lacking, is true weather sealing. You can't just shoot with it in the the pouring down rain, like you can with highend Canon or Nikon cameras. The Leica rep told me it will stand up to high humidity (they are aware of the importance of the Asian market), but direct exposure to the rain is a no, no.
I'm still puzzled why Leica didn't seal the camera.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
Harry and crew,
They should have sealed the body. The lenses and lens mount appear to be sealed well enough as is from prior evidence gained from my film M mount Leica. Perhaps Leica was thinking (wrongly) that since it would be a major undertaking and possible compatibility issue for previous lenses if they re-engineered the M Mount and future lenses to be weatherr sealed; so instead of doing it half way they decided to forego the entire exercise by not weather sealing only the body? Not sure but this seems possible, either that or it was just too expensive. Regardless it was a bad call and I'll bet Leica corrects this with a later weather sealed model.
Ted
They should have sealed the body. The lenses and lens mount appear to be sealed well enough as is from prior evidence gained from my film M mount Leica. Perhaps Leica was thinking (wrongly) that since it would be a major undertaking and possible compatibility issue for previous lenses if they re-engineered the M Mount and future lenses to be weatherr sealed; so instead of doing it half way they decided to forego the entire exercise by not weather sealing only the body? Not sure but this seems possible, either that or it was just too expensive. Regardless it was a bad call and I'll bet Leica corrects this with a later weather sealed model.
Ted
Last edited:
Bob Ross
Well-known
The SSF dust shaker is also found on the Pany and Leica 4/3rds bodies. It would have added considerable depth to the M8 body and I think that Leica was all fired determined to duplicate the size of previous Ms, that they boxed themselves in. Of course, if they had produced a "modern" digital RF, that deviated frome the classic Ms.....well, I don't want to go thereTrius said:
Bob
spersky
-
"My M8 roll out projection:
1st. Improved IR filter on the digital senor on par with that of the R-D1
2nd. A weather sealed version or an M8 MkII that replaces the M8 with weather proofing and possibly improved coatings on the RF for flare suppression.
3rd. An M9 probably in two years time from first roll out with an improved sensor though not necessarily a 1:1 crop factor."
Ted those are very reasonable requests; furthermore, if Leica had even done some of that my Leica M8 (which I cancelled) would likely be in Germany right now getting repaired like the rest of the unfortunate people who bought the Leica M8.
Weather sealing is essential in a 5k camera in my opinion, and the IR filter issue is a joke to expect someone to put a filter on a $3,000 lens just to get proper colors.
All of those issues aside, I think Leica will have learned a very valuable lesson releasing a camera they apparently did not beta test at all. I really doubt that those errors will be repeated again.
1st. Improved IR filter on the digital senor on par with that of the R-D1
2nd. A weather sealed version or an M8 MkII that replaces the M8 with weather proofing and possibly improved coatings on the RF for flare suppression.
3rd. An M9 probably in two years time from first roll out with an improved sensor though not necessarily a 1:1 crop factor."
Ted those are very reasonable requests; furthermore, if Leica had even done some of that my Leica M8 (which I cancelled) would likely be in Germany right now getting repaired like the rest of the unfortunate people who bought the Leica M8.
Weather sealing is essential in a 5k camera in my opinion, and the IR filter issue is a joke to expect someone to put a filter on a $3,000 lens just to get proper colors.
All of those issues aside, I think Leica will have learned a very valuable lesson releasing a camera they apparently did not beta test at all. I really doubt that those errors will be repeated again.
HAnkg
Well-known
1. the R-D1 is a smaller chip, problems grow exponentially with a larger chip with the lens so close to the sensor. Cyan shift is pretty nasty as it is.spersky said:
2. That should be doable, just a question of impact on cost.
3. In 2 or 3 years maybe they will be able to eliminate the filters with a new chip package on the next gen camera. I don't think you will see a fix with the M8.
More likely to see a full frame R (if they continue R development) then M again because traditional RF lens/sensor is not a digital friendly set up.
I doubt you will see any evolutionary change in the next year or 2. Leica will live or die based on the present M8. Actually they did better then I expected, an M compatible, M quality digital RF was a very difficult challenge for a company with Leica's resources. I think they will do fine, but time will tell.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
Spersky and fellow RFf members,
I understand your position and frustration- truth be known of the issues the Leica has the lack of weather sealing on the body (not the M mount or lenses- they are fine IMO) means I must use my M6 and film more often. And while the need to use IR filters is somewhat of a pain it's not a deal breaker by any means. That said I too would prefer my M8 not need this special handling.
To me the curious point is this. That this camera is not perfect, nay that this camera seems to have issues unlike any other camera in its price range means that for some it's a failure. To people who frame the debate in this way no amount of antidotal evidence to the M8's considerable strengths hold sway however...
Talk to actual M8 users and most (certainly not all) will tell you given the choice of having an M8 today or having to wait until the IR issue, weather sealing, lack of manual shutter cocking (glad of it at this point), firmware, etc. they gladly accept the camera as is- I certainly do and I’m certain that Sean Reid, Jaapv, and on, and on, and on are glad of having this camera as well. That this should be such a point of contention among non-M8 users to the point that it’s uncomfortable for those of us who have and like (or love) this camera is a shame. Read any thread regarding how to best use this camera, settings, sharing of pictures or photographic technique and you cannot find a topic that does not have people heckling the camera and by extension its users (perhaps I am wrong here but you get the idea). When world-class images are produced with this camera by photographers who could also use a P&S camera to create iconic images (though not with the M8's detail, clarity, or dynamic range of color or greyscale tone) these images are discounted as being not a result of the M8 due to the fact the photog has skill- this seems hardly the point to me. The point is this camera can and is being used to create iconic images, fine art, etc. As I have stated in previous posts, some people are looking for a camera that will take a poor photographer and miraculously deliver world-class images. To these misguided souls I say you have a long wait whether or not you're consciously aware of what you’re actually looking for. In fact look to the likes of Canon as they are working to make such a camera, Leica is not. I'm sorry but that's my feeling. It's not meant with malice nor am I being sarcastic.
To my fellow M8 photogs I say let's study great works from those of us who have the vision to make iconic images with our M8 cameras and explore how we can elevate DRF photography around the medium of digital; and not merely rehash what has been already done with film.
I understand your position and frustration- truth be known of the issues the Leica has the lack of weather sealing on the body (not the M mount or lenses- they are fine IMO) means I must use my M6 and film more often. And while the need to use IR filters is somewhat of a pain it's not a deal breaker by any means. That said I too would prefer my M8 not need this special handling.
To me the curious point is this. That this camera is not perfect, nay that this camera seems to have issues unlike any other camera in its price range means that for some it's a failure. To people who frame the debate in this way no amount of antidotal evidence to the M8's considerable strengths hold sway however...
Talk to actual M8 users and most (certainly not all) will tell you given the choice of having an M8 today or having to wait until the IR issue, weather sealing, lack of manual shutter cocking (glad of it at this point), firmware, etc. they gladly accept the camera as is- I certainly do and I’m certain that Sean Reid, Jaapv, and on, and on, and on are glad of having this camera as well. That this should be such a point of contention among non-M8 users to the point that it’s uncomfortable for those of us who have and like (or love) this camera is a shame. Read any thread regarding how to best use this camera, settings, sharing of pictures or photographic technique and you cannot find a topic that does not have people heckling the camera and by extension its users (perhaps I am wrong here but you get the idea). When world-class images are produced with this camera by photographers who could also use a P&S camera to create iconic images (though not with the M8's detail, clarity, or dynamic range of color or greyscale tone) these images are discounted as being not a result of the M8 due to the fact the photog has skill- this seems hardly the point to me. The point is this camera can and is being used to create iconic images, fine art, etc. As I have stated in previous posts, some people are looking for a camera that will take a poor photographer and miraculously deliver world-class images. To these misguided souls I say you have a long wait whether or not you're consciously aware of what you’re actually looking for. In fact look to the likes of Canon as they are working to make such a camera, Leica is not. I'm sorry but that's my feeling. It's not meant with malice nor am I being sarcastic.
To my fellow M8 photogs I say let's study great works from those of us who have the vision to make iconic images with our M8 cameras and explore how we can elevate DRF photography around the medium of digital; and not merely rehash what has been already done with film.
Last edited: