Decades of Epson woes

[Calzone]

Yeah, guys like Newton, Avedon, Ritts, Kertesz, all the Magnum photographers like Bresson, etc, all made their own prints (not). But they are professionals. Serious amateurs, whatever that means, would rather make their own of course.

I went to see Bruce Davidson give a talk (Magnum Photographer). He is now a very old man, but he still gets up early and puts time in a dark room making wet prints.

Then there are shooters like W. Eugene Smith who not only were great photographers, but also great printers.

In my experience being a good or great printer is an asset. You get what you want out of an image, it is rewarding the struggle, and in my experience it makes one a better more complete photographer. At one time in history it was very important to master both shooting and printing.

Also at a certain build up of fame, demand and constraints on time forces very high level photographers to hire assistants and crews to do and expedite the work. Basically it becomes a bigger business and printing becomes off loaded as a task.

Interesting to note though that at a "Gallery Workshop" I took I found out there is no price premium if a photographer prints his or her own work because it is assumed that the printer is being supervised by the photographer. I don't see it that way though. At what point does a photographer become a director?

Cal

 

[Calzone]

Yes. The larger printers like the P800 are designed for heavy professional use, so they feature a user-replaceable waste tank. It costs about $50. The waste tanks in the smaller printers can only be replaced by an Epson service center and it costs about $200! So, if you are a heavy user, the P800 is worth buying.




https://youtu.be/roWAfDfyCTA

Chris,

On my 3880 I can safely take the full tank and reset it once with a chip-resetter and safely cycle it again. It seems Epson just wants consumers to buy another one, but realize that when a 3880 says the Maintenance Cart is full it is a lie: it is only half full.

Also on my 7800 the Maintenance Cart bedding is like felt. At work I can run hot water in a tray and basically flush out the accumulated ink. I then reuse the bedding. Of course I'm only washing the bedding.

I can't do this with the 3880, because the bedding is paper. I use other absorbent materials to replace the bedding. The only thing with the 3880 is I need a spare to fool the printer that I changed the cart. Evidently Epson tried to prevent resetting of Maintenance Carts.

Cal

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Chris,

On my 3880 I can safely take the full tank and reset it once with a chip-resetter and safely cycle it again. It seems Epson just wants consumers to buy another one, but realize that when a 3880 says the Maintenance Cart is full it is a lie: it is only half full.

Also on my 7800 the Maintenance Cart bedding is like felt. At work I can run hot water in a tray and basically flush out the accumulated ink. I then reuse the bedding. Of course I'm only washing the bedding.

I can't do this with the 3880, because the bedding is paper. I use other absorbent materials to replace the bedding. The only thing with the 3880 is I need a spare to fool the printer that I changed the cart. Evidently Epson tried to prevent resetting of Maintenance Carts.

Cal

Interesting. I use a P800 now. When my r2400 died, I bought the newer, larger printer rather than getting the waste pad replaced on the r2400. I haven't used it enough to fill the replaceable tank yet, though.

 

[majid]

I have an Epson R2880 that replaced a R1800 and got tired of the bulk and clogs. I purchased a DNP DS820A pro dye-sub printer and am very happy with the results. The panoramic printing feature requires Windows, however, until they finally get around to making a Mac version of the Hot Folder Utility.

 

[gavinlg]

Not very helpful for you unfortunately, but I had an r1800 years ago and have had 2 v600 scanners. All developed glitchy issues and become troublesome a few months after purchase. The printer in particular got clogs and developed inconsistent print issues. Vowed never to buy Epson products again. I have friends with Canon pro printers and they seem to love them. YMMV.

 

[johannielscom]

I have a printer.

He's over at the shop downtown 😀 and the print shop he runs has well-maintained printers that have service contracts, he has consistent color management, a steady supply of paper and if he fouls up a print of mine, he prints it again and the extra print comes out of his pocket, not mine. Him and I combine our knowledge of photography and printing to create a good product.

It'll take me a lot of fine prints paid before I've spent as much as I would on a high end printer, paper and ink would cost me, especially once the bloody thing starts to act up.
And I'm supporting a local brick 'n mortar shop in the process, who every now and then put one of my photos/their prints on display in their shop window.

 

[Michael Markey]

Same with me Johan ..... my printer is called Ilford and reading this thread that`s not about to change any time soon.
I like the product and I`m keeping an important name in business.

 

[froyd]

Well, even though I had over a decade's practice in the darkroom, I have to admit none of my FB (and definitely none of my RC) prints look as good as my best inkjet work. The variety of inkjet papers is very appealing and the ability to fine tune the dodging/burning/masking/contrast filters on screen as opposed to under the gun of the enlarger timer is a relief, and, in my case, results in higher quality output.

However, the learning curve on inkjet has been steep, the running costs have been high, and the headaches, though growing less common with each generation of printer, are still there.

My R3000 is plodding along after 5 years, but it's beginning to give me issues. I spent $600 on it new and it was definitely worth the amortized $120/ year. When adding in the consumables and my time, I agree with Johan that buying prints would have been cheaper, but I've always enjoyed the process of creating my own prints both in the darkroom and on inkjet so I justify the increased production cost as a way to enjoy my hobby.


PS- apologies to the OP for off-topic post. I just wanted to give my sympathy for the "woes" but also highlight why I'm still sticking with inkjet printing

 

[willie_901]

I shouldn't think a serious amateur would leave of to others the making of his prints.

I completely disagree.

A professional lab will faithfully reproduce the rendering aesthetics of a digital image file. This includes the hybrid DSI Digital Silver Prints® method that prints digital images using analog exposure/wet chemistry methods.

Of course, the "serious amateur" would make the effort to follow a calibrated and, or color-corrected workflow.

100% analog, wet-chemistry prints from. negatives is another story.

 

[willie_901]

I have a printer.

He's over at the shop downtown 😀 and the print shop he runs has well-maintained printers that have service contracts, he has consistent color management, a steady supply of paper and if he fouls up a print of mine, he prints it again and the extra print comes out of his pocket, not mine. Him and I combine our knowledge of photography and printing to create a good product.

It'll take me a lot of fine prints paid before I've spent as much as I would on a high end printer, paper and ink would cost me, especially once the bloody thing starts to act up.
And I'm supporting a local brick 'n mortar shop in the process, who every now and then put one of my photos/their prints on display in their shop window.

Well said.

I submit excellent prints from digital files can be obtained from both out-sourced or in-sourced production strategies. I admire people who enjoy doing it themselves even though I am not one of those people.

 

[Brooklynguy]

I shouldn't think a serious amateur would leave of to others the making of his prints.

Don't tell that to HCB and countless others. See e.g. below:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/08/voya-mitrovic-part-i.html

With digital, I use LR to manipulate the file to get the image that I want (dodging, burning, dust spotting, cropping, color/tone adjustments, etc. like the darkroom days), but I have just about given up on actually physically printing the darn thing. Maybe it's my ignorance, but what comes out of the printer *very rarely* matches my screen (a color matched HP LP2475W etc.). Add the wasted ink from head cleanings, wasted paper and test/junk prints, maintenance, etc. Add the clogged heads that require extra maintenance, including dismantling the Epson 3800 (I'll have to take it apart once again, magenta and LLBlack are clogged). Yes in theory digital should be easier than darkroom printing, but in theory I should be a multi-billionaire too!

For Christmas, my wife loaded a few of my finalized images onto Shutterfly and surprised me with 4 printed, matted, and framed 11X14 images that now grace our living room wall. She's happy, and so am I.

So for my needs, I will prepare the image on screen, and let someone else do the final print--sort of like having a print made from a slide; either it matches or it doesn't. The clogged Epson 3800 may or may not live another day.

 

[robert blu]

To each his own of course!

For me inkjet printing is a nice part of my photographic workflow.

I can print larger to hang on a wall or small for an album. I print for the dummy of a book or on special paper to make my own artist's book.
I also printed my own postcards included the ones for the RFF Postcard Project or as Calzone did I can print my own visit cards.

And I have the control on my images. Of course if you have a personal printer who works close to you you can have full control as well.

But inkjet printing is not easy, is not to connect the printer select one photo and hit the print key! It takes time to learn how to prepare a file, of corse as in my case a previous darkroom experience is a great help.

And yes it can be expensive, inks and papers are not cheap. A tight editing is important. But I still remember after a few decades that the best "accessory" in my darkroom was the trash bin. To get a real good prints many bad attempts had to be thrown away. And paper was expensive!

robert

 

[Calzone]

To each his own of course!

For me inkjet printing is a nice part of my photographic workflow.

I can print larger to hang on a wall or small for an album. I print for the dummy of a book or on special paper to make my own artist's book.
I also printed my own postcards included the ones for the RFF Postcard Project or as Calzone did I can print my own visit cards.

And I have the control on my images. Of course if you have a personal printer who works close to you you can have full control as well.

But inkjet printing is not easy, is not to connect the printer select one photo and hit the print key! It takes time to learn how to prepare a file, of corse as in my case a previous darkroom experience is a great help.

And yes it can be expensive, inks and papers are not cheap. A tight editing is important. But I still remember after a few decades that the best "accessory" in my darkroom was the trash bin. To get a real good prints many bad attempts had to be thrown away. And paper was expensive!

robert

Robert,

I think that either wet printing or digital printing helps train the eye. I see defects in other people's work readily. At Milk Studios I saw a show of an established artist who just released a book. On one print I noticed that there must of been dirt on the negative because I saw it on a print that had a price of $8K.

Printing trained me to have a trained eye for detail. Now I can't turn it off.

In my case I learned in art school how to do analog printing well. When it came to Digital I basically have very low skills, but because of my trained eye I do well.

My friend John once said, "The best tool for printing is a trained eye." I kinda agree with this.

Printing surely is expensive, but somehow my prints have their own voice.

Cal

 

[x-ray]

P,

I own a 3880 and a 7800. These two printers have waste tanks.

I think what you describe could be that you have to do some maintenance and clean your wiper blade and capping station. On my printers I have a waste tank with absorbent bedding for expelled ink from nozzle cleanings.

Perhaps your "bedding needs to be changed and is saturated. Also at least once a month I clean my capping station. All kinds of sludge builds there otherwise, and I think this is what is being xfered onto your prints.

Check Piezography.com. They actually have a lot of info on maintenance. I'm not familiar with Epson small printers, but I know the 3880 and 7800 are like the most durable printers that Epson ever made along with the 7880, 9800 and 9880.

Your printer likely still has mucho life in it. You just have to clean out the buildup on the capping station.

Cal

I fully agree with you. I too have a 3880, 7800 and 2400. I previously had a 7600, 7000 and 2 2200's and had a 1280. The only thing I've had to do was have the clock in the 2400 reset. Epson puts a clock in them that eventually shuts them down rendering them useless. There's an Epson service center in town and they got the software from Epson and reset the clock. Other than that I've never had a problem and I've printed a huge amount with them.

I don't know what paper you're using but you may need to raise the platen / head spacing. The head spacing off the paper is set for a particular weight of paper and over time wear and other factors can cause the spacing to change. This is an electronic adjustment in the printers menu. Consider trying this before trashing a perfectly good printer.

My brother has 2 Canon printers, both new. One gave black marks on the paper and Canon replaced it without question. I had lunch with him today and he brought a sample of what happened. No printer is immune to this happening.

 

[Calzone]

I fully agree with you. I too have a 3880, 7800 and 2400. I previously had a 7600, 7000 and 2 2200's and had a 1280. The only thing I've had to do was have the clock in the 2400 reset. Epson puts a clock in them that eventually shuts them down rendering them useless. There's an Epson service center in town and they got the software from Epson and reset the clock. Other than that I've never had a problem and I've printed a huge amount with them.

The 7800 is kinda user serviceable. I downloaded the huge service manual for free. Used my work printer and paper from work to print it out.

The story of how I got my 7800 for only $100.00 was just good timing. At a NYC Meet-Up Chris had a friend Mike trying to sell his printer, the 7800 I now own. Mike was moving back to Japan and was not going to take his printer. Joe sitting next to me offered a ride to help me get the printer home. So everything fell into place.

When I did a nozzle check it just need a few power cleanings: no cloged nozzles. I went into the maintnance menue and discover it is a fresh printer that was hardly used, but used just enough not to be neglected. In the first 9 years of this printer's life it only made 1802 prints.

I loaded it with Piezoflush to freshen it up. This allows for storage as well as resolulizing any buildups in the dampers and ink feeds. It can even unclog a clogged printhead.

Also to be helpful on some of the newer printers that have 11 or 14 cart slots. If you can get one of these printers for free the printer can be "Mapped" and be used and recycled as a Piezography Printer for B&W printing. Matte printing K-7 only requires seven working channels. K-7 Glossy only eight. If you have 9 working channels then you can do both matte and glossy without an ink change.

Also this is good for digital negatives for contact printing. Likely the ultimate in IQ for B&W. I just subscribed to Piezography Pro. Pretty much a turnkey system that allows me to profile and calibrate my system. Also can do digital negatives for contact printing. Pretty much I can do a Salgado without the best lab in Paris.

Cal

 

[Bobfrance]

The 7800 is kinda user serviceable. I downloaded the huge service manual for free. Used my work printer and paper from work to print it out.

The story of how I got my 7800 for only $100.00 was just good timing. At a NYC Meet-Up Chris had a friend Mike trying to sell his printer, the 7800 I now own. Mike was moving back to Japan and was not going to take his printer. Joe sitting next to me offered a ride to help me get the printer home. So everything fell into place.

When I did a nozzle check it just need a few power cleanings: no cloged nozzles. I went into the maintnance menue and discover it is a fresh printer that was hardly used, but used just enough not to be neglected. In the first 9 years of this printer's life it only made 1802 prints.

I loaded it with Piezoflush to freshen it up. This allows for storage as well as resolulizing any buildups in the dampers and ink feeds. It can even unclog a clogged printhead.

Also to be helpful on some of the newer printers that have 11 or 14 cart slots. If you can get one of these printers for free the printer can be "Mapped" and be used and recycled as a Piezography Printer for B&W printing. Matte printing K-7 only requires seven working channels. K-7 Glossy only eight. If you have 9 working channels then you can do both matte and glossy without an ink change.

Also this is good for digital negatives for contact printing. Likely the ultimate in IQ for B&W. I just subscribed to Piezography Pro. Pretty much a turnkey system that allows me to profile and calibrate my system. Also can do digital negatives for contact printing. Pretty much I can do a Salgado without the best lab in Paris.

Cal

That's very interesting. I am just looking into doing the same with my 7800 which has a terminally blocked ink channel. My only issue seems to be locating the Piezo inks in the UK.

 

[johannielscom]

Cal, your post almost makes me reconsider my m.o.

Very informative!

Almost! 😉

 

[Michael Markey]

Even I had second thoughts for a minute ..... just a minute mind. 🙂
Cal`s enthusiasm is always infectious .

 

[Bobfrance]

Even I had second thoughts for a minute ..... just a minute mind. 🙂
Cal`s enthusiasm is always infectious .

Mike, if I get mine working I'll do you some prints. 😉

 

[Calzone]

Bob,

My 7800 I had in storage mode, meaning loaded with Piezoflush. Although I bought my 7800 for only $100.00, and it was only utilized for 1802 over a nine year life at its time, I had no cash for paper and ink. It did cost me about $600.00 for a gallon of Piezoflush and a set of refillable carts.

So I flushed out the old ink using an initial fill cycle, I cleaned the capping station, and kinda sanatized the printer. I waited 6 months. Evidently Piezoflush softens and resolulizes any accumulated ink.

At Jon Cone's they often get 3880's that are dropped off to be recycled because they have clogged print heads. Many of these otherwise DOA printers are revived that once had clogged heads.

Of course you don't have to buy a gallon of Piezoflush like I do to save money, but understand that the refillable carts for my 7800 are oversized, and I removed the doors because they cannot be closed. My 7800 carts are about 300-350 ml, and I use funnels to pour and fill them. LOL.

At Piezography they recommend at least once a year doing a Piezoflush purge, letting the Piezoflush sit for two days. I have the original dampers in my 7800. Evidently you might want to change them every 3 years in a printer that is commercially used, but you can also use Piezoflush instead and just let it sit. A printer can be stored for years if loaded with Piezoflush. Piezoflush really can restore and freshen up a printer.

If I had the space I would collect 3880's because this desktop printer has a reputation for long print head life. It also allows to use third part inks to save mucho money, especially for color where the cost per ml is abou 1/10th Epson OEM.

Always best to use a printer heavily, but then you can take a break, and in a clever slacker's way print a lot in a frenzy and then relax in downtime.

I happen to love "Jersey Barrier" class Epson printers, which I define as the 7800, 7880, 9800, and 9880. All these printers are built like pickup trucks and are easy to service. They also have legendary print head life.

I also happen to be spoiled by the paper transport that uses fans to suck a vacuum for paper handling. A lot more sophisticated than my 3880. Also roll paper is very cost effective. Instead of buying 17x22 cut sheets to print 12x18 image size I can for less cost print that same 12x18 to utilize stock framing and have an 18x24 sheet size with impressive 3 inch borders.

I also live that with rolls it opens up creative sheet sizes.

Cal