Decisive Moment? No thanks! Raymond Depardon photography

robert blu

robert blu

quiet photographer
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I know the title is a little provocative. Please don't take it too literally! Of course as photographers we all know ithe moment to fire the shutter is important.

A few day ago, first time since the covid startes I visited a photo exhibition. Title was "La vita moderna" = modern life" by the Magnum French photographer Raymond Depardon whose work I admit I did not know. Links are below if you are interested.

I liked it very much, good work B&W and colour. 35mm and Large format. It was really interesting.

One thing which caught my attentiion was this sentence (placed too high for a good phone photo!)

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"That's the idea of wandering: that there are no more privileged moments, decisive moments, exceptional moments, but rather daily life."

I always say we do not need to go in special exotic places to make good photos, we can make ven just outside our home. And it is what I did during the two pandemic years when I was only allowed a short walk in the neighborhood.
But even doing it I was looking for something "special" : a special light, a special framing, a special building, a special...something

In Italy we have authors such as Guido Guidi oand we had Luigi Ghirri who have produced important works on common subjects, in America authors such as Egglestone or Sternfeld, the "New Topograpichs" movement so the idea is not new but anyway worthwhile to be discussed a little bit.

As I said in the beginning do not take it too literally or too seriously but It coukld be interesting to know what other think about this subject. In a few words do you find it interesting to photograph simple daily life?

If you are interested in Depardon's work here are some links:

https://youtu.be/tDMNK2NJWYU

https://www.magnumphotos.com/photogr...mond-depardon/

https://triennale.org/en/events/raymond-depardon-la-vita-moderna


PS: These are difficult, sad and tragic moments and of course there are more serious questions around with a war going on. But a little bit of relax is necessary...
 
I like Depardon very much and have two of his books: Manicomio was an assignment on Italian mental hospitals and covered both patients in the hospitals and patients who had reintegrated into the cities. I also have 1968, which is a pocket paperback-sized selection from his assignments in that fateful and storied year in French history, from film sets with Bardot to the first heart transplant to the May uprising. He also did stunning color work in Glasgow for an assignment that ultimately didn't get published until released as a book by Seuil (a book I hope to someday get a copy of). He's quite a prolific photographer who has covered a lot and is fortunately still with us. I saw La vita moderna announced on his Instagram, but I live in the US and would have been unable to go. I'm quite envious of anyone who got to see it!

Here's a BBC article from 2020 on his Glasgow pictures
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-54800689
 
I think Robert Frank had said something similar although I can't remember it verbatim. And also Robert Doisneau's work does not revolve around the decisive moment. I think Bressons work and theory has made it difficult for a lot of us (me included in that group) to think outside capturing a moment that is not decisive. A lot of other photographers seem to be attributing meaning to what they see around them that does not revolve around the idea of a decisive moment.

I like Raymond Depardon's work a lot - especially the work he did recording Glasgow.
 
Yes, completely Robert. Everyday and ordinary life just as much, or more even, than the ‘special’ things and moments. Part of this, for me, is a reaction to an excess of the ‘too perfect’ and the endless quest for a particular perfection or degree of specialness that devalues the everyday.
 
I find Depardon’s work solid yet slow and very Tame.

The “decisive moment” is a misunderstood concept. It doesn’t have to do with a physical precise moment. It more happens with the heart, less with a fat person walking next to a poster of a Diet plan. It’s emotional.

Anyhow. The greatest, the best package, is definitely Doisneau, or Herzog. There are a lot more, but if we’re in the mainstream I’d name those two as being on top. They pack everything into an image all at once: decisive feeling, decisive composition, decisive message, decisive undertone, decisive all. Simply put: the decisive moment.
 
robert blu said:
"That's the idea of wandering: that there are no more privileged moments, decisive moments, exceptional moments, but rather daily life."
Click to expand...
If you listen carefully to Depardon's commentary in the YouTube video, it is clear that the foregoing statement simply describes his work in the exhibit La Vita Moderna currently on display at Triennale Milano. It is not an overarching declaration that the concept of the decisive moment is dead.
 
ptpdprinter : yes, you are correct. This is the reason for which I wrote do not take it too seriously or too literally.
My idea was to start a discussion about, which could be interesting or inspiring. As it seems it is starting
 
p.giannakis said:
I think Robert Frank had said something similar although I can't remember it verbatim. And also Robert Doisneau's work does not revolve around the decisive moment. I think Bressons work and theory has made it difficult for a lot of us (me included in that group) to think outside capturing a moment that is not decisive. A lot of other photographers seem to be attributing meaning to what they see around them that does not revolve around the idea of a decisive moment.

I like Raymond Depardon's work a lot - especially the work he did recording Glasgow.
Click to expand...

I agree the Glasgow series is really something different from the usual colour city landscape or reportages photography we usually see. No surprise it was refused by the editor. But it is clear the photographer had a vision.

I found this youtube video with interesting comments about it, viewer comments included: https://youtu.be/KonCp1TzUKs
 
How Cartier-Bresson found the title of the American edition of his book "Images à la Sauvette", The Decisive Moment, is different from what is commonly believed today. In 1973 he said in an interview:

'You want to know more about the title? Well, I had nothing to do with it. I found a line in the memoirs of Cardinal de Retz, in wich he said: "There is nothing in this world wich does not have a decisive moment". I used the quote [as an inscription] in the French edition, and when we were thinking of titles [for the American edition], we had a whole page of possibillities. Suddenly, Dick Simon said: "Why not use 'the decisive moment'?" It worked well, and so I became what's known as a plagiarist.'

Erik.
 
I strongly recommend R Depardon's "Errance" (Editions du Seuil, 2000). Pocket-size, high quality printing, excellent set of landscapes and cityscapes all in portrait format.
Regards
Joao
 
Erik van Straten said:
How Cartier-Bresson found the title of the American edition of his book "Images à la Sauvette", The Decisive Moment, is different from what is commonly believed today. In 1973 he said in an interview:

'You want to know more about the title? Well, I had nothing to do with it. I found a line in the memoirs of Cardinal de Retz, in wich he said: "There is nothing in this world wich does not have a decisive moment". I used the quote [as an inscription] in the French edition, and when we were thinking of titles [for the American edition], we had a whole page of possibillities. Suddenly, Dick Simoin said: "Why not use 'the decisive moment'?" It worked well, and so I became what's known as a plagiarist.'

Erik.
Click to expand...

à la sauvette = on the fly
 
Moments, daily life, on the fly, exceptional, particular, exact, decisive... framing and click semantics. That which curators and critics live for.
 
robert blu said:
I agree the Glasgow series is really something different from the usual colour city landscape or reportages photography we usually see. No surprise it was refused by the editor. But it is clear the photographer had a vision.

I found this youtube video with interesting comments about it, viewer comments included: https://youtu.be/KonCp1TzUKs
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for that link. I also thought the comments were interesting, and also served to slow down the presentation, so it was in contrast to many youtube “book” videos where the images fly by.

As an aside, several years ago I participated in a photography book workshop where we each brought 3 books we liked. One of my choice was Depardon’s Voyages. Everyone else hated it.
I think part of the reason is that his work doesn’t hit you in the face. What looks ordinary at first requires one to pause for a moment and look more closely, and then to realize that his gift is capturing the…ordinary. That book was black and white work from the seventies. The Glasgow book shows that his vision was consistent over the years, in colour and black and white. (At least in those two books; I haven’t seen his work where he used larger format cameras.)
 
I'm lucky to have job which is supporting me and anyone else while with or still without c-19.
Now War.
Keep yourself alive. Walk and try to get some pictures.
 
I like Depardon’s work very much… I’ve got Voyages and Adieu Saigon. I admire his documentary style and the fact that his photos have a pretty consistent “look” to them, since he stuck to an M3 and a 50mm lens for a lot of his photography. He also has a knack for getting the right distance from his subjects: close, but w/ enough background to provide a context for the image. Although his syle is documentary, his photography is not simply reportage. There many, many beautiful images in these books which can stand on their own.
 
NB23 said:
I find Depardon’s work solid yet slow and very Tame.

The “decisive moment” is a misunderstood concept. It doesn’t have to do with a physical precise moment. It more happens with the heart, less with a fat person walking next to a poster of a Diet plan. It’s emotional.

Anyhow. The greatest, the best package, is definitely Doisneau, or Herzog. There are a lot more, but if we’re in the mainstream I’d name those two as being on top. They pack everything into an image all at once: decisive feeling, decisive composition, decisive message, decisive undertone, decisive all. Simply put: the decisive moment.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I would say from what I understand of how HCB explained it, the decisive moment was when all of the elements came together in the best possible composition. You're right, it's not necessarily about a moment in time - an action or expression or whatever, but it's about that combined with the positioning of the photographer, the camera and all of the elements which are visible in the photo. HCB would not want to, say, just capture an interaction between two people. He would want their bodies to be positioned just so, with the building in the background and the tree on the side to be just so... which is why he would dart around so much. Yes, it happens with the heart, but also with the head - his understanding of painting was essential to mentally (and emotionally) putting those compositions together. Personally I think his brain was working overtime and his emotions were playing a supporting role. But then, an artist often "thinks" with his heart, so to speak, which I would call intuitive thinking.
 
Cartier-Bresson may not have chosen the phrase "the decisive moment" but his work practice and reputation were very much based on the idea that there's a particular instant at which TA-DA, A Masterpiece of Photography Has Just Been Created.

I've always been inclined to call BS on this notion, not so much because I'm fascinated by photographs of everyday life but because I enjoy photographs that contain some ambiguity. The old Time-Life Library of Photography books introduced the work of William Klein under the heading "The Indecisive Moment" and I took to that description (and Klein's photos) immediately; Elliott Erwitt became another favorite when I first came across his work in the book "Photographs and Anti-Photographs."

I just like the experience of discovering a photo that is both interesting enough and non-dogmatic enough to make me think, "Wait a sec, WTF is actually going on here?" Quote: "I'm happier in the Forest of Ambiguity than in the Kingdom of the Frickin' Obvious..."
 
ranger9 said:
Cartier-Bresson may not have chosen the phrase "the decisive moment" but his work practice and reputation were very much based on the idea that there's a particular instant at which TA-DA, A Masterpiece of Photography Has Just Been Created.

I've always been inclined to call BS on this notion, not so much because I'm fascinated by photographs of everyday life but because I enjoy photographs that contain some ambiguity. The old Time-Life Library of Photography books introduced the work of William Klein under the heading "The Indecisive Moment" and I took to that description (and Klein's photos) immediately; Elliott Erwitt became another favorite when I first came across his work in the book "Photographs and Anti-Photographs."

I just like the experience of discovering a photo that is both interesting enough and non-dogmatic enough to make me think, "Wait a sec, *** is actually going on here?" Quote: "I'm happier in the Forest of Ambiguity than in the Kingdom of the Frickin' Obvious..."
Click to expand...

I know Klein's work but did not know about "The Indecisive Moment" . Researching a little I found this interesting article : https://americansuburbx.com/2010/06/theory-indecisive-moment-frank-klein.html worthwhile to read if anyone interested.

Like you, I find photos that ask questions more interesting than those that only describe what the photographer sees. Which, however, can sometimes be beautiful :)
 
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