Luddite Frank
Well-known
Am going to go out over the next couple of nights to try and grab some landscapes under a coating of fresh snow and with a full moon.
Will be shooting across a cornfield, with a large RR bridge in the background, about 1/4 mile away.
Not sure where the moon will be relative to the bridge / camera...
According to the almanac, moonrise is around 3:30 PM and sets around 6 AM.
I will probably try to grab my shots between 10 PM and 2 AM, so I'm guessing the moon will most likely be overhead.
Would like to shoot both color and B&W...
Film choices are Kodak Portra 160 VC or NC, and Ilford FP-4 125.
Will probably be shooting with 4x5 Graphic (135 Optar) and 6x9 Zeiss.
I am expecting these will be time-exposures on a tripod.
I will be trying to meter with my Gossen Luna-Six - since the main subject is 1/4 mile away, would incident or reflected reading be best ?
If there is not enough light to get a reading on the meter, how much time should I give the exposure ?
I will probably be shooting at f/8 to f/11.
My goal is a crisp, moonlit landscape, that looks like a night-time shot as opposed to some funky daylight effect.
Am planning to budget about 4 exposures for each type film, so I can do some bracketting
Will also scope-out exact camera placement, etc. during day light.
Thanks ...
Will be shooting across a cornfield, with a large RR bridge in the background, about 1/4 mile away.
Not sure where the moon will be relative to the bridge / camera...
According to the almanac, moonrise is around 3:30 PM and sets around 6 AM.
I will probably try to grab my shots between 10 PM and 2 AM, so I'm guessing the moon will most likely be overhead.
Would like to shoot both color and B&W...
Film choices are Kodak Portra 160 VC or NC, and Ilford FP-4 125.
Will probably be shooting with 4x5 Graphic (135 Optar) and 6x9 Zeiss.
I am expecting these will be time-exposures on a tripod.
I will be trying to meter with my Gossen Luna-Six - since the main subject is 1/4 mile away, would incident or reflected reading be best ?
If there is not enough light to get a reading on the meter, how much time should I give the exposure ?
I will probably be shooting at f/8 to f/11.
My goal is a crisp, moonlit landscape, that looks like a night-time shot as opposed to some funky daylight effect.
Am planning to budget about 4 exposures for each type film, so I can do some bracketting
Will also scope-out exact camera placement, etc. during day light.
Thanks ...
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
According to Light Intensity Chart
Snowscape under full moon has an EV of -2. I think that is so that the snow gets white [this is wrong: see below], since EV of -3 is night, full moon. If I was bracketing, I would take one of each.
(OK, I am an idiot: EV -2 is brighter than EV -3, snow reflects moonlight)
Snowscape under full moon has an EV of -2. I think that is so that the snow gets white [this is wrong: see below], since EV of -3 is night, full moon. If I was bracketing, I would take one of each.
(OK, I am an idiot: EV -2 is brighter than EV -3, snow reflects moonlight)
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SamStewart
Established
my experience with long exposures is to not even bother metering. Depending on the light I'll usually start around 15/20 minutes and bracket down to 10ish then keep going down.
If you do something like that start with your longest time first, it's easier to sit through then when it's your last exposure and you want to leave.
If you do something like that start with your longest time first, it's easier to sit through then when it's your last exposure and you want to leave.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
The moon is (very roughly) 1/1,000,000 as bright as the sun, so the 'funky daylight effect' requires about 1,000,000x 'sunny 16'. That would be 10,000 seconds at f/16 for ISO 100 or 166 minutes. Go to f/5.6 and of course it's an eighth of that -- 20+ minutes. This sets your upper limit for the 'funky daylight effect', though I suspect you'll need blue filtration to create the impression of a moonlit night ('nuite americaine'). Don't forget reciprocity.
Somewhere there's a picture of me that Frances took by moonlight on ISO 50 film: 3 minutes at f/1.4 as far as I recall.
Cheers,
R.
Somewhere there's a picture of me that Frances took by moonlight on ISO 50 film: 3 minutes at f/1.4 as far as I recall.
Cheers,
R.
Sparrow
Veteran
Film doesn’t react to low light like the human eye; those “funky daylight effects” are really just how it is, our eyes de-saturate and favour the blue end in low light so you’ll need a strong’ish blue filter to get back to our perceptive reality.
Personally I’d head for Photoshop
Personally I’d head for Photoshop
Please post your results... 
FrozenInTime
Well-known
1/ISO-days @f/4
oftheherd
Veteran
According to the chart Degruyl linked to, EV -3 is 32 seconds at f/1.4 at ISO 25. My recollection (so dangerous) is that EV -3 is more like 20 seconds at f/1.4 at ISO 25. I have another chart at home I got from either Pop Photo or Modern Photography years ago. I'll try to remember to look for it tonight and if I find it and it disagrees, I will post it. As Mr. Hicks pointed out, you need to take reciprocity into effect, and you need to know that the moon will be blurred. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I think anything of 1/15 sec causes blur?
Nonetheless, sounds like a lot of fun (except for the cold). You should get some really great photos. Hope to see them here.
Nonetheless, sounds like a lot of fun (except for the cold). You should get some really great photos. Hope to see them here.
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
The moon moves, approximately, 0.004 degrees / second (if I did the math right). It will move during the shot. On top of that, he did not say he was taking picture OF the moon (which is EV14, I believe) but of a moonlit scene. If the moon is in the scene, it will appear to be completely blown.
oftheherd
Veteran
Yes, you are right.
Luddite Frank
Well-known
Not planning to get the moon in the shot... that would defnitely skew the exposure....
I'm hoping to use the moon as the primary light source for the landscape, not unlike shooting with the sun at your back...
Am going out tonight to scope-out the location.
LF
I'm hoping to use the moon as the primary light source for the landscape, not unlike shooting with the sun at your back...
Am going out tonight to scope-out the location.
LF
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
If you're planning to use the moon as illumination and not as part of the shot, I'd think an incident meter reading should get you pretty close to the exposure you want--if your meter will give you a reliable reading.
Rob
EDIT: that meter reading should give you a base to then figure reciprocity. I don't know what the adjustments are for the films you are using but Kodak seems to have good information for their films available--somewhere in the data sheets? those are(or were, the last time I looked, any way) on line at Kodak's site.
Were it me, with 4 shots, I would probably shoot one at the meter reading and one at the reciprocity adjustment, one something like half way between those two, and one at twice the reciprocity values.
Rob
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Luddite Frank
Well-known
A scouting trip out to the site last night was time well-spent.
I arrived at the site around 11 PM EST, right about "high moon"...
All the classic texts encourage shooting when the sun is low in the sky, as the light has "more character", and I believe the same holds true for "moon as illumination " in this particular exercise.
With the moon directly overhead, the scene looked pretty "blah".
My shooting location places me to the East of the subject, so if I get out there earlier in then night, the moon should be closer to the horizon, and provide a bit more "front light".
The railroad bridge I'm using for a backdrop is a huge, white concrete multiple-arch bridge (the largest of its kind in the world), so I'm hoping that it will tend to "glow" more than its surroundings.
I will check into the reciprocity compensations for my films... I'm assuming that any reciprocity in this case would be caused by shooting in such low light rather than excessive bellows draw / small aperture ?
My Speed Graphic will be focused somewhere between 100ft & Infinity, so bellows draw will be minimal - about 5 inches from the film plane. I am planning to keep my aperture at either f/8 or f/11 ( Graflex Optar 135/f4.7); lens goes to f/32 - in addition to reciprocity, I want to avoid any diffraction issues.
Not too challenging a project, eh ?
I arrived at the site around 11 PM EST, right about "high moon"...
All the classic texts encourage shooting when the sun is low in the sky, as the light has "more character", and I believe the same holds true for "moon as illumination " in this particular exercise.
With the moon directly overhead, the scene looked pretty "blah".
My shooting location places me to the East of the subject, so if I get out there earlier in then night, the moon should be closer to the horizon, and provide a bit more "front light".
The railroad bridge I'm using for a backdrop is a huge, white concrete multiple-arch bridge (the largest of its kind in the world), so I'm hoping that it will tend to "glow" more than its surroundings.
I will check into the reciprocity compensations for my films... I'm assuming that any reciprocity in this case would be caused by shooting in such low light rather than excessive bellows draw / small aperture ?
My Speed Graphic will be focused somewhere between 100ft & Infinity, so bellows draw will be minimal - about 5 inches from the film plane. I am planning to keep my aperture at either f/8 or f/11 ( Graflex Optar 135/f4.7); lens goes to f/32 - in addition to reciprocity, I want to avoid any diffraction issues.
Not too challenging a project, eh ?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Another trick is to point the bare meter cell at the moon (no incident dome in place) and give 5x the reading. But I think the one-million-times trick is likely to work better.
And you WILL need a blue filter, or to add blue in printing.
f/8 WITHOUT a filter is about 40 minutes; probably a couple of hours with. The shadows will move during that time, destroying the impression of crisp shadows. Deliberately underexpose for 'nuite Américaine' and your longest bracket is likely to be an hour at f/8 with the filter in place.
Cheers,
R.
And you WILL need a blue filter, or to add blue in printing.
f/8 WITHOUT a filter is about 40 minutes; probably a couple of hours with. The shadows will move during that time, destroying the impression of crisp shadows. Deliberately underexpose for 'nuite Américaine' and your longest bracket is likely to be an hour at f/8 with the filter in place.
Cheers,
R.