developer for tri-x @ 800

black_box

black_box

aesthetic engineer.
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Im new to developing and Im looking for a few opinions on D-71 recipe's when using tri-x 400, and I plan on usually shooting @ 800. Im aiming for the contrast/grain in the links here


http://flickr.com/photos/alabamadez/281628328/

http://flickr.com/photos/luketrash/137084977/

http://flickr.com/photos/uzzy/229004571/

A few other questions to add, is say you push from 400 to 800 do you rougly double developing time or is there another calculation?
I know that the basics on developer/time is listed, but Im wondering how they come to their dilution/time formula... what is the trade off of more dilution/more time than less dilution/less time?


Alot of questions... but the first ones I ask for my developing journey. Hopefully I get enough feedback by the time my supplies get here:cool:
 
Yes 20-30% are ok and digitaltruth as well,but with every table values you got, consider it as a starting point. It may differ considering your water quality, exact procedure and a lot of other factors. Just try it and adjust your time and agitation based on the results. Try to stick to your chosen combo of film, its EI and developer as far as you master it. Lot of people (me included) are/were eager to try a lot of different films/devs, but... (you know it). For further pushing (above 800) consider DD-X developer, it is good at it.
 
I use D76 1:1, I found it gives the best results for pushing to 1600 and 3200 EI. You might find that you don't need extended development for pushing to 800, but it kind of depends on the light. If the subject was relatively well lit, you might not need to push, but if you want the details in the shadows, then yeah, I'd lengthen development over what is recommended for 400.
 
40oz said:
I use D76 1:1, I found it gives the best results for pushing to 1600 and 3200 EI. You might find that you don't need extended development for pushing to 800, but it kind of depends on the light. If the subject was relatively well lit, you might not need to push, but if you want the details in the shadows, then yeah, I'd lengthen development over what is recommended for 400.
Click to expand...

I can confirm that using xtol 1:1. Developing tri-x +1 with the 400 times works fine.
 
Thanks alot guys


And by the way... and what temperatures are these ratings... how much does temperature affect timing?
Oh and how does agitation play into all of this this?

I feel like a little kid pointing and asking why, why
 
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Just to stir the pot a bit ...

My lab uses HC110 and I quite liked the results I got with Tri-X @ 800. Of course, I can't help you with developing time and temperature.
 
You should always try and stay at 20C/68F if you can. otherwise, there is an ilford pdf that is very helpful in compensating times for differing temperatures. It is at:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006210208211880.pdf

Finally, your regular agitation is fine, again as a starting point. TXT has enough latitude that you'll find yourself pretty okay at just the 1 stop underexposure. I'd increase by no more than 15%, personally, because of that.

allan
 
I also noticed they just list "D-76", nothing specific. Doesnt matter much?- Rodinal, kodak, etc?
I mean if someone says 8 minutes in 1:1 and they are using Kodak something-er-nother, I dont want to be doing the wrong thing using these times with Rodinal.

I also noticed some people dont use a stop, and just use alot of water. Is this a common practice?
Still wondering how agitation is figured out too...

Thanks alot again for this informations- Ive gained far more in these few posts than I did looking at examples for hours yesterday.
 
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I don't use stop, just rinse with water two or three times between developer and fix. There are many posts here of people having problems with stop damaging the film/emulsion, and none from people complaining about results of not using stop. That kind of math I can do in my head :)

As far as temperature: the temperatiure of the developer directly influences developing time. The higher the temp, the shorter the required time. I sometimes use a higher temp to shorten developing times, using Kodak guidelines for Tri-X in D-76 1:1 found here: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...17.jhtml?id=0.2.22.14.17.16.14&lc=en#pushproc
 
black_box said:
I also noticed they just list "D-76", nothing specific. Doesnt matter much?- Rodinal, kodak, etc?
I mean if someone says 8 minutes in 1:1 and they are using Kodak something-er-nother, I dont want to be doing the wrong thing using these times with Rodinal.
Click to expand...

Rodinal and D76 are 2 entirely different developers. You cannot use the D76 time with Rodinal.

I'm not entirely sure if that's what you meant. But D76 times are for D76. If there aren't any times listed for Rodinal, try others who have used it. I have 16:30 at 1+50 for Rodinal.

allan
 
I was under the impression rodinal was a brand of D-76. So it doesnt really matter too much what type of D-76?

Im still in the dark about this agitation thing. Does changing this affect how you want your outcome, or do you just follow the charts?
 
black_box said:
I was under the impression rodinal was a brand of D-76.
Click to expand...

Nope. Rodinal, at least for these purposes, is an Agfa/A&O developer with moderate acutance (sharpness but at the expense of increased grain), liquid concentrate (so you use it at 1+50, 1+100, etc, as compared to D76 at 1+1). It is known for increased grain, better sharpness (the two usually go hand in hand), excellent shelf life, and a decrease in film speed.

So it doesnt really matter too much what type of D-76?
Click to expand...

not really, no, and Ilford's ID-11 is basically D76, too. The major D76 variants you'll see at Lauder D76 (pre-mixed to 1 gallon, often found at schools), Kodak D76 (single package of powder that you mix to a gallon), and ID-11 (2 packs of powder, available in 1 and 5 liter quantities). D76 1+0 (stock) or 1+1 (1 part stock, 1 part water) are both one-shot, solvent developers that give you less grain, okay film speed (you might lose 1/3 of a stop or so), and a bit of a softer look (as compared to Rodinal). D76 1+3 is actually an acutance developer, giving you more grain and more sharpness. It's very versatile, and that's why it's often a great first developer for people.

Im still in the dark about this agitation thing. Does changing this affect how you want your outcome, or do you just follow the charts?
Click to expand...

There are two methods of "standard" agitation. Well...two methods, and two timings, so four variants. You can:

-invert and rotate
-just rotate

at a rate of:

-5 seconds every 30s of total dev time
-10 seconds every 60s of total dev time.

Personally, I invert and rotate (so you rotate the tank as you invert it) and do so for 10s every 60s. BUT - you pick one, and you stick with it. If it gives you problems, then switch. But not until then. FWIW, I find that rotation only does not break up the flow enough within the tank and you can get uneven development. So you might want to avoid that one regardless.

In general, you do not vary your agitation to affect your outcome. If you want higher contrast, developer for longer. If you want less contrast, developer for a shorter period of time. Keep your agitation the same. There are exceptions - stand development, reduced agitation, etc - but those are later toppics.

I hope that helps.
allan
 
Hm... rodinal seems interesting although I cant find any good charts for timing.

And when you say invert and rotate, is that a simply turn the tank upside down, a slowly rotating, then resting it back right side up?
 
There are tons of people out there that use Rodinal, myself included. Just ask for times and EI and we'll get them to you. Again, starting points only.

Invert and rotate - with your right hand on top of the tank and left on bottom:

-invert the tank to the right. as you do this, rotate your right hand away from your body. Return to original position (ie - right side up, hand unrotated)

-invert the tank to the right again. this time, rotate your right hand towards you (this is actually rather awkward). return.

-do this for the allotted time. I usually do 5 inversions per 10s. This will break up the flow up/down and rotationally. As I set it down, I tap the tank to dislodge air bells then rotate it something akin to 1/4 turn (not exact on purpose) to make the next time I start inversions a bit more random.

allan
 
black_box said:
Im new to developing and Im looking for a few opinions on D-71 recipe's when using tri-x 400, and I plan on usually shooting @ 800. Im aiming for the contrast/grain in the links here


http://flickr.com/photos/alabamadez/281628328/


Hopefully I get enough feedback by the time my supplies get here:cool:
Click to expand...


Well, on the 1st image you selected, the information is given on how they

achieved that look. But most likely they shot Tri-X as 400 to begin with.


For pushing Tri-X I would use Diafine. It gives excellent results, and is nearly

impossible to screwup. Rodinal 1:100 can be used easily with semi-stand

development and yield useable negs as well. Everyone will have their way of

doing this trick, perhaps experimentation on your part is what's needed here.

And with Diafine, it can easily give excellent results with alomst every film

out there without much to worry about.
 
black_box said:
I was under the impression rodinal was a brand of D-76. So it doesnt really matter too much what type of D-76?

Im still in the dark about this agitation thing. Does changing this affect how you want your outcome, or do you just follow the charts?
Click to expand...



D-76 is a powder form film developer from Kodak. Rodinal is a liquid


developer (and listed as the world's oldest film developer


1st patented in 1891) from Agfa in Germany. (Now Agfa/A&O).






Rodinal is like a magic potion. You will hear many say it gives grainy

negatives especially with Tri-X. But with the limitless dilutions/times

available for it, plus the fact it can literally last for years in the bottle,

grain doesn't have to be an issue. Especially with MF & LF.






A lot of shooters absolutely love the Tri-X /Rodinal combination. Myself


included. However if shooting portraits, I'd go with HC-110 1:50 from

the syrup with Tri-X or Plus-X as HC-110 gives a softer look.




As you get into processing your own films, you will find dozens of

developers, all giving varying results. Chose 1 and stick with it for a

year. Learn what it can and can't do for you.


I've been doing this for almost 40 years, believe me: There's no shortcut

for experience.
 
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I shoot all my Tri-X at 800, developed in Acufine, 5min at 72deg. Popular method with alot of old PJ's. Little contrasty, but decent grain. $5 buys you a quart, enough for 16 rolls. Try it out, see if you like it.
 
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