Developers with long shelf life

[p.giannakis]

Hi everyone,

As some of you might have already figured out, I am not shooting too much film nowadays, anything between 5 to 10 rolls of film per year. Therefore the old HC110 developer was ideal for me - it lasts forever.

Now I am running low on HC110 and the new version doesn't keep for as long as the old one (i opened that bottle in 2011). I also grew out of the way Rodinal looks with 400 ISO films.

So, what are my options for long shelf life developers in 2021? Any tips or tricks I should know about?

 

[Nitroplait]

Now I am running low on HC110 and the new version doesn't keep for as long as the old one

Is that a statement based on actual experience or from reading the expiry date?

 

[John Bragg]

Try Ilfotec HC. Very much in the ball park of the old HC-110. I have tried it and it seems very similar. Best uk price at Wex Photographic. Also keeps well too. Also consider making D23 at home. Small quantities made and used one shot.
Personally I am using Ilfosol 3 and despite bad rep, it keeps really well in full bottles. I use 100ml Calpol bottles. Ready supply of those with a 4 year old in the house..

 

[p.giannakis]

Is that a statement based on actual experience or from reading the expiry date?

No, it has nothing to do with the expiring date. The new version oxidises within 6 months to a year from the moment it is opened. The old version would work even if it was opened decades ago.

 

[p.giannakis]

Try Ilfotec HC. Very much in the ball park of the old HC-110. I have tried it and it seems very similar. Best uk price at Wex Photographic. Also keeps well too. Also consider making D23 at home. Small quantities made and used one shot.
Personally I am using Ilfosol 3 and despite bad rep, it keeps really well in full bottles. I use 100ml Calpol bottles. Ready supply of those with a 4 year old in the house..

Yes ilfotec HC is one if those I thought about but I am pretty sure I have read 1 year shelf life once opened. Some people are using wine bottles to store developers, I wonder how this works.

 

[Nitroplait]

No, it has nothing to do with the expiring date. The new version oxidises within 6 months to a year from the moment it is opened. The old version would work even if it was opened decades ago.

Does "oxidise" mean that it doesn't work? I mean, have you or somebody established that it doesn't work?

I have recently finished a bottle of the old stuff that I had forgotten for 8 years (half empty bottle) 6 of which were past expiry, it was dark golden almost brown - I would guess that that qualifies as "oxidised" but it was as potent as new.

I just bought a new formular bottle, and would be interested in hearing of real world experience.

 

[p.giannakis]

Does "oxidise" mean that it doesn't work? I mean, have you or somebody established that it doesn't work?

I have recently finished a bottle of the old stuff that I had forgotten for 8 years (half empty bottle) 6 of which were past expiry, it was dark golden almost brown - I would guess that that qualifies as "oxidised" but it was as potent as new.

I just bought a new formular bottle, and would be interested in hearing of real world experience.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. When I say "running low on HC110" I mean there is not much left inside the bottle. I know that it doesn't lose its developing potency. The new version of HC110 is not like that though.

 

[Nitroplait]

I think there is a misunderstanding here. When I say "running low on HC110" I mean there is not much left inside the bottle. I know that it doesn't lose its developing potency. The new version of HC110 is not like that though.

No misunderstanding.
You say "The new version of HC110 is not like that though". My question is; How do you know the new version is not like that?

When I use Google to educate myself, I find a lot of people guessing that due to water content that it will not last as long, but it is speculations mostly made 2 years ago when the change was just introduced and obviously nobody could know.
I can't find current reports that support those speculations.

I am wondering if you can reference some recent reports that supports that the new stuff doesn't last?

 

[BillBingham2]

Does "oxidise" mean that it doesn't work? I mean, have you or somebody established that it doesn't work?.........

Oxidize speaks to oxygen mixing with the liquid developer. Mixed developer should (IMHO) always be kept in a dark glass bottle. Oxidized developer will not work well (read, I'm pretty sure at all, depending upon how Oxidized it is).

Running tests to see if it works is a bit of a gamble as it costs a roll of film and a bit of time at very minimum.

Long time ago Kodak used to sell D76 in small foil packets. Doubt they or anyone does. IMHO that would be an interesting market to get into as folks like to shoot film, but no where near as much as we all did say 30 years ago.

B2 (;->

 

[Nitroplait]

Oxidize speaks to oxygen mixing with the liquid developer.

I understand what Oxidation is, but I don't understand what OP means.

The old version of HC-110 was yellow when new, but could be used even when almost brown (aka. oxidized) and several years past its expiry date.

OP says that the "new version oxidises within 6 month to a year from the moment it is opened" - but does OP's use of the word "oxidises" mean that the developer doesn't work?
The old version of HC-110 would oxidise, but it was OK to a certain extend. How does OP know that oxidation is NOT OK with the new one?

The statement of the first post in this thread is: the old HC-110 would last a long time, the new version will not.
I would like to know if that statement is based on speculation or actual reports.

 

[VoodooXT]

To my understanding, the new 2019 formula is still too new to know if its shelf life is anywhere near the longevity of the original HC-110 syrup.

 

[John Bragg]

Yes ilfotec HC is one if those I thought about but I am pretty sure I have read 1 year shelf life once opened. Some people are using wine bottles to store developers, I wonder how this works.

From my understanding, the use by date is equally underoptomistic to that quoted by Kodak for the original. Both made by Tetenal anyhow so I expect similar life in similar conditions.

 

[xayraa33]

D-76 has a long life if the powder is parcelled out to small air-tight containers and mixed as need...I been using this technique since the 1970s and it has worked for me very well.

You will have to do your own calculations to achieve a repeated constancy on how much D-76 powder to water you need for development at 20 deg. C for a straight dilution or a 1:1 dilution for the type and quantity in a single tank of film you normally use .

 

[p.giannakis]

No misunderstanding.
You say "The new version of HC110 is not like that though". My question is; How do you know the new version is not like that?

When I use Google to educate myself, I find a lot of people guessing that due to water content that it will not last as long, but it is speculations mostly made 2 years ago when the change was just introduced and obviously nobody could know.
I can't find current reports that support those speculations.

I am wondering if you can reference some recent reports that supports that the new stuff doesn't last?

Well, it seems that i educate myself the same way you do - i do read a lot of speculation on the internet due to the fact that it is a new product. If i dont know that the new HC110 has a long or short shelf life, i dont see why i should assume that it is a long one. That is why i ask for suggestions.

The Learn.Filmphotogrpahy website says "The new formula doesn’t last as long as the old syrupy version, but if it’s mixed into multiple sealed 250ml bottles or bags, it’ll last just as long as new bottles." Some of those folks are far many more experienced and know much more than i do. Also Kodak states that storage life for unsused solutions is anything between 2 to 6 months for the new product - on Phototrio people talk about storage life of almost a year of the old unsused solutions. So my uneducated guess is that there is a difference - how much? i dont know.

As I said in the beginning, i dont use much film and i would prefer to buy a developer with long shelf life.

I hope i clarified it a bit more.

 

[Doug A]

The Ilford Simplicity one-use sachet system might another possibility. The developer is Ilfosol 3. The sachet makes 600 ml of working developer, just enough for two rolls of 135 film or one roll of 120 film in a Patersen or Nikor-type tank.

 

[p.giannakis]

The Ilford Simplicity one-use sachet system might another possibility. The developer is Ilfosol 3. The sachet makes 600 ml of working developer, just enough for two rolls of 135 film or one roll of 120 film in a Patersen or Nikor-type tank.

Thank you, I wasn't aware of this.

 

[Nitroplait]

Well, it seems that i educate myself the same way you do - i do read a lot of speculation on the internet due to the fact that it is a new product. If i dont know that the new HC110 has a long or short shelf life, i dont see why i should assume that it is a long one. That is why i ask for suggestions.

<snip>

As I said in the beginning, i dont use much film and i would prefer to buy a developer with long shelf life.

I hope i clarified it a bit more.

It is difficult to identify what is speculations and assumptions on the internet, so thank you for clarifying.

I thought that there may have been new evidence that it last significantly shorter, but that seems not to be the case. HC-110 may still have long shelf life but only time will tell.
Keep in mind that Kodak did not endorse the extremely long life of the old formular either - yet we use old HC-110 way past the official expiry date.

If you are otherwise happy with HC-110, I would suggest you try a new bottle and see how it goes. Distributing the content of the bottle into smaller bottles wouldn't harm of course.

It is not that you will loose much if it goes bad a few years before you expected, the alternatives are fairly expensive or troublesome.

1 liter of HC-110 cost €32 (Fotoimpex) it will develop up to 160 rolls of 35mm film.
1 liter of Ilfotec HC €52 (I assume it has the same concentration as HC-110 but haven't checked)
Ilford Simplicity cost €4.70 for 2 rolls of 35mm films!
Kodak D76 and Ilford ID-11 are for all practical purposes the same and very good.
A large pack of D76 cost €10 and will develop around 20 rolls in the recommended 1:1 solution, but with your limited usage, consider if you want to mess with splitting powder sachets and containers etc.

 

[John Bragg]

Thank you, I wasn't aware of this.

This is an expensive option. Ilfosol 3 is a great developer and it is easy enough to divide the 500ml into smaller air tight bottles. I use 100ml calpol brown glass bottles and each comes with a handy dandy syringe to boot ! Calprofen syringes are even better as graduated in ml ! Free storage and measuring. What's not to like ?

 

[jdriffill]

For my own irregular developing of black and white film I’ve been using D76, a packet of which made up 3.8 litres of stock solution. I have used it up within about a year and it seems to have lasted ok. No sign of it going off. Unfortunately D76 seems to have become unreliable recently. The most recent pack of the white powder that I bought turned into a solid brown cake well within the stated use-by date on the pack.

I have bought some 1 litre packs of ID-11 which is not so cheap to use. The 5 litre packs would be more economical but seem to be hard to find at the moment. I also have some 1 litre packs of Fuji Microfine and Super Prodol (bought in Tokyo some years ago for about 200 yen each) that I mean to use sometime.

How about Caffenol for very occasional use? Not especially cheap though. It uses a lot of instant coffee which can be quite pricey. Smelly, but I found the results fairly good.

 

[Joao]

Hello
Concerning D-76, there was a thread in the old RFF reporting a discoloration of the powder with two dreaded batches (Batch 2020/01/23 8438 & Batch 2019/10/09 8432). Kodak Alaris had recognized the problem and replaced the defective batches.

My first experience with D-76, some months ago, was with Batch 2020/01/23 8438

​D-76 by João Freitas, on Flickr

The developer in the sachet was brownish, with coarse grains, not a white poder as expected.
Solution was tea-colored, not transparent.

​D76 solution by João Freitas, on Flickr

Anyway, I decided to use it and the results were acceptable (to me)…

​DOCK by João Freitas, on Flickr
If it was a comercial assignement or any form of professional use, I would have not used it, of course. I used it as an experiment.
And I intend to use another sachet that I have from the same batch.

Concerning HC-110: I have a bottle of the new stuff that I opened in 2020 (and kept in a dark closet in the original bottle) and so far it is working as expected. I have used 1/3 of the developer.
The last few rolls were developed as semi-stand, and I have no complaints so far…

Regards
Joao