jimbobuk
Established
What a difference a week makes... having taken receipt of a set of film cameras and having 2 test rolls pending development in a lab I'm starting to consider developing my own film more and more. I have no scanner at this time so its not going to happen any time soon but i just thought i'd try to find out more about it and have the time to make the right decisions. All this in a week before which I was happy just using my R-D1 and other digital cameras.. I will still use the R-D1 a lot, the most probably.. but it'd be nice to know you can have film to try and work with as well.
I'd have to go with the light proof bag and sealed developer tank. I've been impressed by how small the tanks sometimes are.. space to store everything would be a concern.. here are my main issues at this time.
How many litres of chemicals do you have to typically keep around?
How much of this would you use developing a roll or a few rolls of film?
which chemicals are suitable for reuse?
What temperatures is it important to store the chemicals in or is the temperature only important at the time of developing?
How much of a smell do these chemicals have, i realise whilst in use they're going to have a particular smell.. once its drained off though how long does it linger.. it doesn't taint the room.. say a bathroom?
Are all the chemicals involved safe to dispose of into the normal waste water pipes? What are the actual names of the chemicals required for b&w developing so i may look into their safety and relative pollutant values?
Are these chemicals safe to be used in white ceramic and plastic sinks like you have in a typical UK bathroom? What about plastic waste pipes that you are going to drain them away into.. this in particular i'd be concerned at leaving a smell in as that would be unacceptable to everyone else who uses the room for other purposes.
I'd love to see a video of someone actually developing a roll of film using these more mainstream components and techniques.. it'd be nice to see the actual actions of agitation that someone has found to work well for, rather than reading a description.
Sorry.... a lot of questions... i'm really interested, just to find out to be honest.. long term there are potential cost savings to be had but it'd be nice to be exposed to the actual act of developing and getting some good results whilst its still relatively easy to do so.
Any links or other things on this topic would be hugely appreciated as my googling hasn't turned up THAT many good results so far.
Cheers
I'd have to go with the light proof bag and sealed developer tank. I've been impressed by how small the tanks sometimes are.. space to store everything would be a concern.. here are my main issues at this time.
How many litres of chemicals do you have to typically keep around?
How much of this would you use developing a roll or a few rolls of film?
which chemicals are suitable for reuse?
What temperatures is it important to store the chemicals in or is the temperature only important at the time of developing?
How much of a smell do these chemicals have, i realise whilst in use they're going to have a particular smell.. once its drained off though how long does it linger.. it doesn't taint the room.. say a bathroom?
Are all the chemicals involved safe to dispose of into the normal waste water pipes? What are the actual names of the chemicals required for b&w developing so i may look into their safety and relative pollutant values?
Are these chemicals safe to be used in white ceramic and plastic sinks like you have in a typical UK bathroom? What about plastic waste pipes that you are going to drain them away into.. this in particular i'd be concerned at leaving a smell in as that would be unacceptable to everyone else who uses the room for other purposes.
I'd love to see a video of someone actually developing a roll of film using these more mainstream components and techniques.. it'd be nice to see the actual actions of agitation that someone has found to work well for, rather than reading a description.
Sorry.... a lot of questions... i'm really interested, just to find out to be honest.. long term there are potential cost savings to be had but it'd be nice to be exposed to the actual act of developing and getting some good results whilst its still relatively easy to do so.
Any links or other things on this topic would be hugely appreciated as my googling hasn't turned up THAT many good results so far.
Cheers
Fedzilla_Bob
man with cat
How funny is this... I was thinking there's got to be a "B/W developing for dumies," while eating lunch.
I've got my eyes open for one. I'll post here when I locate it.
I've got my eyes open for one. I'll post here when I locate it.
S
Socke
Guest
I have a Jobo 2400 daylight tank which can be loaded in daylight. On the negative side, you need 450ml chemicals for one film so I don't use one shot developers much.
I use Amaloco chemicals, the fixer is close to odorless.
I store used developer and fixer in 5l gas canisters and bring them to a place where they collect difficult waste.
I use Amaloco chemicals, the fixer is close to odorless.
I store used developer and fixer in 5l gas canisters and bring them to a place where they collect difficult waste.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
I suggest you look up Allan Chen (kaiyen here on RFF). I don't have it bookmarked, but in another thread inquiring about b&w developing (within the last week), Allan pointed to a site he created that is devoted to b&w processing technique. From the little I saw, it looked great. I know Allan (he's local); he's dedicated to the cause and very enthusiastic. Check out the darkroom forum. He's usually found helping out over there.
Fedzilla_Bob
man with cat
http://photography.about.com/library/weekly/aa051401e.htm
http://www.phocus.org.uk/resources/basicdarkroomtechniques.pdf
basicdarkroomtechniques.pdf
http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/pdf/film hobbyist.pdf
film hobbyist.pdf
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10864&highlight=develop+B/W
This is what I have found so far
http://www.phocus.org.uk/resources/basicdarkroomtechniques.pdf
basicdarkroomtechniques.pdf
http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/pdf/film hobbyist.pdf
film hobbyist.pdf
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10864&highlight=develop+B/W
This is what I have found so far
kaiyen
local man of mystery
Wow. I'm away 3 days and the site changes its look and I'm even being cited as a reference
my site is http://photos.kaiyen.com
It's not everything. I got up a head of steam with the chemcals section, then ran out of energy. but I'll respond to this thread bit by bit after I finish this last bit of e-mail catch up from while I was gone...
allan
my site is http://photos.kaiyen.com
It's not everything. I got up a head of steam with the chemcals section, then ran out of energy. but I'll respond to this thread bit by bit after I finish this last bit of e-mail catch up from while I was gone...
allan
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
kaiyen said:Wow. I'm away 3 days and the site changes its look and I'm even being cited as a reference
my site is http://photos.kaiyen.com
It's not everything. I got up a head of steam with the chemcals section, then ran out of energy. but I'll respond to this thread bit by bit after I finish this last bit of e-mail catch up from while I was gone...
allan
see...told you he hangs out here!
.
kaiyen
local man of mystery
let's see if I can do one giant reply...
let's see if I can do one giant reply...
Yup. Changing bag and a daylight tank. Personally, I don't see why folks bother with other methods. Then again, I move a lot, so setting up a true dark room is dicey.
Almost my entire kit fits into a "banker's" box or xerox box, except for the big bucket I use for a steady-temp water supply.
The usual response here is to recommend liquid concentrate developers to start with. No need to deal with dissolving powders. I actually started with the powders, oddly enough.
The liquid devs come in a litter at a time, or smaller. That's all you need to store. I prefer to mix up the 1 gallon powder developers. So either a liter or a gallon of developer.
I mix up fixer in 1 liter quantities, and a gallon of permawash/HCA at a time. The photo--flo is diluted at time of use so all I have stored is a tiny bottle of it.
Most of it is re-usable. The developer is one-shot (or at the least I recommend it as one shot). If it's a liquid concentrate like Rodinal, you use like 12 ml into 600ml of water (1+50). So not much. If it's like D76 which is often used 1+1, then it's 300ml of developer.
A 2 reel plastic daylight tank uses _about_ 600ml of liquid. Not exactly, but that's the number I round up to, usually.
Stop (if you use it - I use just water), Fixer, and HCA can all be reused. The stop and fixer until exhaustion, and the HCA for about 3 months in a full bottle.
It's most important during the actual processing. But I've seen stuff come out of solution with both developer and fixer if it gets cold enough. It gets down to about 35 in my garage at night, and no problems.
let's see if I can do one giant reply...
jimbobuk said:
Yup. Changing bag and a daylight tank. Personally, I don't see why folks bother with other methods. Then again, I move a lot, so setting up a true dark room is dicey.
Almost my entire kit fits into a "banker's" box or xerox box, except for the big bucket I use for a steady-temp water supply.
The usual response here is to recommend liquid concentrate developers to start with. No need to deal with dissolving powders. I actually started with the powders, oddly enough.
The liquid devs come in a litter at a time, or smaller. That's all you need to store. I prefer to mix up the 1 gallon powder developers. So either a liter or a gallon of developer.
I mix up fixer in 1 liter quantities, and a gallon of permawash/HCA at a time. The photo--flo is diluted at time of use so all I have stored is a tiny bottle of it.
Most of it is re-usable. The developer is one-shot (or at the least I recommend it as one shot). If it's a liquid concentrate like Rodinal, you use like 12 ml into 600ml of water (1+50). So not much. If it's like D76 which is often used 1+1, then it's 300ml of developer.
A 2 reel plastic daylight tank uses _about_ 600ml of liquid. Not exactly, but that's the number I round up to, usually.
Stop (if you use it - I use just water), Fixer, and HCA can all be reused. The stop and fixer until exhaustion, and the HCA for about 3 months in a full bottle.
It's most important during the actual processing. But I've seen stuff come out of solution with both developer and fixer if it gets cold enough. It gets down to about 35 in my garage at night, and no problems.
jimbobuk
Established
Thanks a lot for all the great replies... I will definitely look into this further, those links are all a great start Right now i'm rushing to fill in and post off the two films for developing.. getting stung on the higher prices may motivate or force the issue for me
Be interested to know how anyone else in the UK is disposing of the Exhausted fixer as to my knowledge i dont think we have a household hazardous waste day around here.. Be great to get someone else from the UK to confirm kaiyen's info on disposing on the rest of the chemicals.. by that i mean confirm that its an ok thing to do in the UK as it clearly is in the US.
Allan, a video would certainly be a fascinating thing to have for reference, face or no face
Thanks guys.
Right now i'm rushing to fill in and post off the two films for developing.. getting stung on the higher prices may motivate or force the issue for me Be interested to know how anyone else in the UK is disposing of the Exhausted fixer as to my knowledge i dont think we have a household hazardous waste day around here.. Be great to get someone else from the UK to confirm kaiyen's info on disposing on the rest of the chemicals.. by that i mean confirm that its an ok thing to do in the UK as it clearly is in the US.
Allan, a video would certainly be a fascinating thing to have for reference, face or no face
Thanks guys.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
kaiyen said:
I recently created a movie on loading stainless steel reels as part of assisting on a school project. It' was a LOT of work, and the file size of our movie got quite big. It is possible to break it down into small components, though. For instance, something like a 20-30 second clip on agitating a tank is probably a manageable length. Ours went from cracking the film canister, to loading the reels, to capping the stainless steel tank. We were trying to keep it under 5 minutes with titles, introductory & closing lead-ins, and credits. We had two soundtracks going with it, and ended up around 15Gb!!
It ended up quite nice, if you can get past my voice-over.
kaiyen
local man of mystery
2 soundtracks? That certainly makes it a lot longer. Yes, I think it would have to be several segments. Sounds like you already got one big one done.
Is it worthwhile to make other little segments on stuff? Like a series of things?
allan
Is it worthwhile to make other little segments on stuff? Like a series of things?
allan
jimbobuk
Established
RayPA said:I recently created a movie on loading stainless steel reels as part of assisting on a school project. It' was a LOT of work, and the file size of our movie got quite big. It is possible to break it down into small components, though. For instance, something like a 20-30 second clip on agitating a tank is probably a manageable length. Ours went from cracking the film canister, to loading the reels, to capping the stainless steel tank. We were trying to keep it under 5 minutes with titles, introductory & closing lead-ins, and credits. We had two soundtracks going with it, and ended up around 15Gb!!
It ended up quite nice, if you can get past my voice-over.
I've only ever dabbled with my own dv outputs very fleetingly on my PC.. the filesizes as you described get to be too big for my hdds to handle.. i have quite a lot of hdd space but its generally taken up with my music collection and a digital clutter to mirror the mess in my bedroom, and on my desk at work
Don't forget that a 5 minute clip with 2 soundtracks, or two versions of the clip one for each soundtrack is very easily squashable down to something internet hostable.. I already put my binaural field recordings online (http://binaural.jimtreats.com) and each of those sometimes approach 100meg each.. its costing me to do so, but its not THAT much. I'd be happy to help you with the free software you need to squash your clip down to whatever size you'd want.
jimbobuk
Established
kaiyen said:
I for one being totally newbie, a developing virgin as it were would absolutely love as much video of the process as possible.. it can't get much clearer than a well thought out set of video clips.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
jimbobuk said:
That's true. Our project was always destined for tape, or DVD, so "squashing" it wasn't important, but when I did squash it (for grins), it made for a much smaller Quicktime video (1~2GB, IIRC).
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
jimbobuk said:I for one being totally newbie, a developing virgin as it were would absolutely love as much video of the process as possible.. it can't get much clearer than a well thought out set of video clips.
It can't get much more costly or time-consuming to produce either!
But I agree. I learned in school by watching.RicardoD
Well-known
I am a developing Newbie (have yet to develop first roll) as well and was thinking the same thing about how useful a video would be. However if you search the archives you will see everyone has slight variations on their process and each seems to have good results. So I decided to adopt the Diafine Pimp's process start to finish. Rather than try and create some hybrid process which may not turn out in the end.
To keep video length to a managable size you have to encode to mpeg4. I definitely would like to see a how to load stainless reels video. Just a clip of that would suffice for now. Let me know if I can help to encode down to mpeg4.
I just won a nice darkroom kit auction on ebay for very little money and hopefully can start practicing stainless steel reel loading by the end of the week.
To keep video length to a managable size you have to encode to mpeg4. I definitely would like to see a how to load stainless reels video. Just a clip of that would suffice for now. Let me know if I can help to encode down to mpeg4.
I just won a nice darkroom kit auction on ebay for very little money and hopefully can start practicing stainless steel reel loading by the end of the week.
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titrisol
Bottom Feeder
Long time ago i purchased the Kodak Photgraphy encyclopedia
Every month a volume came and at the end they sent me a collection of videos about photgraphy.
They ere 8 or 10 VHS cassettes and darkroom work was one of them.
You maybe able to find these videos in Oivay
Every month a volume came and at the end they sent me a collection of videos about photgraphy.
They ere 8 or 10 VHS cassettes and darkroom work was one of them.
You maybe able to find these videos in Oivay
RicardoD said:
jimbobuk
Established
I was in a few camera shops today (jacobs, and jessops) and saw some illford developing kit.. had a look around.. also asked for help and advice on the safety of disposing of the chemicals and whether its safe for plastics, ceramic etc.. didn't really get that much good answer but one thing we did spot was the illford chemicals, developer especially have labels saying
don't throw away
dont pour down toilet
I'm sure there are differing chemicals out there.. but it'd be nice to have a set of chemicals that weren't saying such things on their labels.
Thanks for all the other advice as well guys... it will happen.. no rush yet.
don't throw away
dont pour down toilet
I'm sure there are differing chemicals out there.. but it'd be nice to have a set of chemicals that weren't saying such things on their labels.
Thanks for all the other advice as well guys... it will happen.. no rush yet.
kaiyen
local man of mystery
Jim,
Unless you are dealing with a septic tank OR with pyro-based developers, it is absolutely safe to throw the developer down the drain.
It is _never_ safe to throw exhausted fixer down the drain. I think you could throw fresh fixer down the drain but I"m not sure. Nor do I know why you'd want to.
I don't know about stop bath, but it should be safe as well as it's basically just vinegar. However, if you want to be safe, just use a water stop. Nothing wrong with throwing water down the drain.
Permawash is...I'm not so sure. I just toss it, and so do a lot of folks. But since it is technically helping to wash fixer off your film I guess it could have trace bits of silver in it. But I would not worry about it.
I do not believe my comments are any less valid for the UK than it is here. Don't worry about it. Get some chems and get developing!
allan
Unless you are dealing with a septic tank OR with pyro-based developers, it is absolutely safe to throw the developer down the drain.
It is _never_ safe to throw exhausted fixer down the drain. I think you could throw fresh fixer down the drain but I"m not sure. Nor do I know why you'd want to
.I don't know about stop bath, but it should be safe as well as it's basically just vinegar. However, if you want to be safe, just use a water stop. Nothing wrong with throwing water down the drain.
Permawash is...I'm not so sure. I just toss it, and so do a lot of folks. But since it is technically helping to wash fixer off your film I guess it could have trace bits of silver in it. But I would not worry about it.
I do not believe my comments are any less valid for the UK than it is here. Don't worry about it. Get some chems and get developing!
allan
markinlondon
Elmar user
Jim,
Allan has raised some valid points about waste disposal, but here in the UK we don't really have household hazardous waste disposal.
Stop bath is perfectly safe to throw down the drain. I also find that a working strength solution of stop bath lasts a very long time if used for film as you're only neutralising the traces of developer soaked into the emulsion.
I read somewhere that used fixer was OK to put into the sewers (not a septic tank) but it's better to throw it down the soil pipe rather than the sink trap. The amount of silver will be removed by the settlement tanks at the sewage plant. We're taling about minute amounts here. If you have lots of spent fixer you could try your local photo lab who will have a silver recovery deal.
Have a look at Ilford's health and safety data sheets
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/healthandsafety/datasheet.asp?n=1
Mark
Allan has raised some valid points about waste disposal, but here in the UK we don't really have household hazardous waste disposal.
Stop bath is perfectly safe to throw down the drain. I also find that a working strength solution of stop bath lasts a very long time if used for film as you're only neutralising the traces of developer soaked into the emulsion.
I read somewhere that used fixer was OK to put into the sewers (not a septic tank) but it's better to throw it down the soil pipe rather than the sink trap. The amount of silver will be removed by the settlement tanks at the sewage plant. We're taling about minute amounts here. If you have lots of spent fixer you could try your local photo lab who will have a silver recovery deal.
Have a look at Ilford's health and safety data sheets
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/healthandsafety/datasheet.asp?n=1
Mark