Gid
Well-known
Jim,
Just follow the instructions on the Ilford "Develop your first B&W" info sheet. It is very easy - that is what I used and if I can do it anyone can. If you haven't done so already, practice loading the reel on a film that you can afford to waste. I practiced for about 15 mins after which I could do it with my eyes closed. I use a large changing bag and a patterson daylight universal tank for for developing single rolls. Mine takes 1 x 120 or 2 x 35mm films - the quantity of chemical you require is on the bottom of the tank. I use Ilford DDX, Ilfostop and their rapid fixer.
I usually fill a basin with water at just about 22 C (it really is quite cold) and use this for mixing up the chemicals - I store chems in my garage so this brings the temerature down to near enough the required 21 C. I then use the remaining water for washing in accordance with the instructions.
I do pour the stuff down the drain - the Ilford H&S data sheets say this is OK (sort of) - and in any case, the quantities I am using are quite small.
If I have several films to develop I use a Jobo processor because the quantity of chemical required is less.
Just follow the instructions on the Ilford "Develop your first B&W" info sheet. It is very easy - that is what I used and if I can do it anyone can. If you haven't done so already, practice loading the reel on a film that you can afford to waste. I practiced for about 15 mins after which I could do it with my eyes closed. I use a large changing bag and a patterson daylight universal tank for for developing single rolls. Mine takes 1 x 120 or 2 x 35mm films - the quantity of chemical you require is on the bottom of the tank. I use Ilford DDX, Ilfostop and their rapid fixer.
I usually fill a basin with water at just about 22 C (it really is quite cold) and use this for mixing up the chemicals - I store chems in my garage so this brings the temerature down to near enough the required 21 C. I then use the remaining water for washing in accordance with the instructions.
I do pour the stuff down the drain - the Ilford H&S data sheets say this is OK (sort of) - and in any case, the quantities I am using are quite small.
If I have several films to develop I use a Jobo processor because the quantity of chemical required is less.
sf
Veteran
tons of valuable information here, thanks. I'm buying the full Arista line to use with the Arista.edu Ultra 200. Film developer, stop, fixer, hypo wash, and wetting agent.
I'll use Neopan Acros 100, developed at a lab, for the lens tests and for when I want to produce top-notch B&W landscape negs.
I'll use Neopan Acros 100, developed at a lab, for the lens tests and for when I want to produce top-notch B&W landscape negs.
jimbobuk
Established
just an update thats UK centric mostly..
I've yet to develop any of my own film but am getting a lot closer. I managed to find this section on ilford's site
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=48
Quite encouraging.
I'm trawling through my browser history to retread a week old browsing session here, not sure how i found it, I thought it was via Ilford's site but i discovered this other site here
http://pic.uk.net/coppice/coppice_pages/start.htm
Which is a very thorough and detailed site outlining guidelines and recommendations, or a code of practice for the UK photo-processing industry in dealing with photo developing chemicals.
I browsed around to see if i could find anything relevant for home use, nothing really though, all for businesses and labs of various sizes. I did however email them and asked them for their advice for amateur developers disposing of chemicals at home.
Here is the email i got back
I am very appreciative of their advice as they clearly know what the state of affairs is for these chemicals, and so I now feel much happier about trying it out myself and being careful to try and minimise the waste and diluting the chemicals as they are disposed of.
Before getting this response I had asked a number of sellers of these chemicals in the UK for their thoughts, another reassuring response, with an additional caution to be mindful of updates on the situation was given to me from nova darkroom
Hope this information is reassuring for anyone else as it was for me. The previous comments about exhausted fixer not being suitable haven't been confirmed for small heavily diluted quantities by any of these sources, given the lack of any alternative of disposing of these at the moment they must be ok to be disposed of along with the other chemicals.. though not mixed as Ilford recommended.
Anyways, thought i'd add this to this thread to hopefully help anyone else who's going to try and follow me down this path
I've yet to develop any of my own film but am getting a lot closer. I managed to find this section on ilford's site
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=48
Quite encouraging.
I'm trawling through my browser history to retread a week old browsing session here, not sure how i found it, I thought it was via Ilford's site but i discovered this other site here
http://pic.uk.net/coppice/coppice_pages/start.htm
Which is a very thorough and detailed site outlining guidelines and recommendations, or a code of practice for the UK photo-processing industry in dealing with photo developing chemicals.
I browsed around to see if i could find anything relevant for home use, nothing really though, all for businesses and labs of various sizes. I did however email them and asked them for their advice for amateur developers disposing of chemicals at home.
Here is the email i got back
I am very appreciative of their advice as they clearly know what the state of affairs is for these chemicals, and so I now feel much happier about trying it out myself and being careful to try and minimise the waste and diluting the chemicals as they are disposed of.
Before getting this response I had asked a number of sellers of these chemicals in the UK for their thoughts, another reassuring response, with an additional caution to be mindful of updates on the situation was given to me from nova darkroom
Hope this information is reassuring for anyone else as it was for me. The previous comments about exhausted fixer not being suitable haven't been confirmed for small heavily diluted quantities by any of these sources, given the lack of any alternative of disposing of these at the moment they must be ok to be disposed of along with the other chemicals.. though not mixed as Ilford recommended.
Anyways, thought i'd add this to this thread to hopefully help anyone else who's going to try and follow me down this path
tarasi
Tarasi
I use Diafine for Agfa APX rated at 200 ISO and for TriX rated at 1250, Calbe A49 and HC-110 for Fuji Neopan 400, TriX rated at 400 and Ilford Delta 100.
Use 400 ml liquid for one film.
The Diafine is reusable;the HC-110 developer is one_shot,then I pour down the drain.
I use a water stop.
I use Tetenal Superfix Plus for 5-6 films,then I pour down the drain the fixer.
I used this system for 20 years now and never any problem.
Corneliu
Use 400 ml liquid for one film.
The Diafine is reusable;the HC-110 developer is one_shot,then I pour down the drain.
I use a water stop.
I use Tetenal Superfix Plus for 5-6 films,then I pour down the drain the fixer.
I used this system for 20 years now and never any problem.
Corneliu
Andy K
Well-known
Jimbob, you will also find a mountain of advice and information over at APUG. (The Analogue Photography Users Group).
As already mentioned the pdf files on Ilfords site are also an excellent guide for any darkroom beginner.
If you have a Jessops near you pop in and see if you can get a copy of their pamphlet: The Jessops Darkroom Book, a beginner's guide to developing and printing (see attachment). I found it extremely handy when I fiirst started darkroom work.
As already mentioned the pdf files on Ilfords site are also an excellent guide for any darkroom beginner.
If you have a Jessops near you pop in and see if you can get a copy of their pamphlet: The Jessops Darkroom Book, a beginner's guide to developing and printing (see attachment). I found it extremely handy when I fiirst started darkroom work.
Last edited:
vicmortelmans
Well-known
Gid said:
Ilford documentation was also my guide into B&W development (quite a while ago now). Very clear!
Success!
Vic
titrisol
Bottom Feeder
The only chemicals you may have to be careful doisposing of are fixer and toners.
If you want to be very good with your fixer, accumulate it in a 5 gallon jug and put some steel wool in it.
Agitate every other while..... most of the silver will be stuck in the steel wool and you can send the rest down the drain.
Otherwise dumping a liter per month down the drain is very safe.
Toners are a different aniaml, and they can be tricky.
If you want to be very good with your fixer, accumulate it in a 5 gallon jug and put some steel wool in it.
Agitate every other while..... most of the silver will be stuck in the steel wool and you can send the rest down the drain.
Otherwise dumping a liter per month down the drain is very safe.
Toners are a different aniaml, and they can be tricky.
jimbobuk
Established
I just recieved my first chemicals and kit today.. all arrived ok apart from the fixer had leaked, thankfully the chemicals were in a tightly sealed plastic bag so after cleaning them up a bit i'm left ready to go for the weekend.
I'm just a little confused, i guess i need some storage bottles but as the fixer and stop is reusable, yet diluted i guess you measure out and dilute a fresh batch, use and store diluted in a spare bottle for x amount of developings, when you can then redilute another amount ready for the reuse.. is this about right?
Cheers.. now to find some b&w films, and some spare cassettes to butcher and practice loading reels.
I'm just a little confused, i guess i need some storage bottles but as the fixer and stop is reusable, yet diluted i guess you measure out and dilute a fresh batch, use and store diluted in a spare bottle for x amount of developings, when you can then redilute another amount ready for the reuse.. is this about right?
Cheers.. now to find some b&w films, and some spare cassettes to butcher and practice loading reels.
markinlondon
Elmar user
I usually make up a litre each of working strength stop and fix. The indicator in the stop bath should tell you when it's done. As for the fixer, perform this test. In room light drop a piece of undeveloped film into a beaker of fixer, agitate constantly and note the time the film takes to clear. Fix film for 2-3 times the clearing time. Return fixer to the stock bottle after use. I usually test again after 5 or 6 rolls. When the clearing time (for the same film) is twice the original result, the fixer is near exhaustion and should be replaced. Don't worry about excluding air from stop and fixer stocks as they don't go off like developer. Fizzy drink bottles make good stock bottles. BE SURE TO LABEL THEM CLEARLY.
Good luck,
Mark
Good luck,
Mark
titrisol
Bottom Feeder
Yes, you keep the concentrates in a cool dark place and prepare "working" solution in used bottles of peroxide or similar that are thick borwn plasticbottles.
jimbobuk said:
jimbobuk
Established
Ok, well I've received most of my kit now so am about ready to try and develop something. I've started practicing the taking 35mm film out of its container and loading it onto the reel. I've two reels, one that came with a darkroom starter kit and the patterson super system 4 universal developing tank.
I've been playing with the 35mm one that came with the kit. It has extra large tabs that you can feel and help guide the film which the patterson doesn't have, i fear that will make things harder at first. After some initial fiddling i got the film going onto the reel nicely, finished and hoped to leave the film attached the cartridge spool so i could wind it up and try again.
Sadly i hit a big problem.. I couldn't get the film back off the tank reel.. I tried and tried... the 2 tabs that help guide the film on along with the ball bearings that help you load make it difficult to pull the film back, i'm assuming you have to push the film through and past the ball bearings and then pull the film with a slight bending motion to get it off the outer most track as you pull off the reel... pulling the film it just wouldn't budge.. looking later it looked like in the inner coil the film had risen up a bit and was therefore not being pulled back out.. in the end i had to go crazy and squeeze and even cut some of the film to be able to get it off. this would have killed the film had it had any pictures on it.
I'm not sure if the patterson reel will come apart, or even if this 35mm one would but this would be ideal if you were struggling to pull it off straight.
So my question is what are the strategies to cleanly getting the film off the developing reel, and what do you do if you can't just pull it off cleanly.
Cheers
I've been playing with the 35mm one that came with the kit. It has extra large tabs that you can feel and help guide the film which the patterson doesn't have, i fear that will make things harder at first. After some initial fiddling i got the film going onto the reel nicely, finished and hoped to leave the film attached the cartridge spool so i could wind it up and try again.
Sadly i hit a big problem.. I couldn't get the film back off the tank reel.. I tried and tried... the 2 tabs that help guide the film on along with the ball bearings that help you load make it difficult to pull the film back, i'm assuming you have to push the film through and past the ball bearings and then pull the film with a slight bending motion to get it off the outer most track as you pull off the reel... pulling the film it just wouldn't budge.. looking later it looked like in the inner coil the film had risen up a bit and was therefore not being pulled back out.. in the end i had to go crazy and squeeze and even cut some of the film to be able to get it off. this would have killed the film had it had any pictures on it.
I'm not sure if the patterson reel will come apart, or even if this 35mm one would but this would be ideal if you were struggling to pull it off straight.
So my question is what are the strategies to cleanly getting the film off the developing reel, and what do you do if you can't just pull it off cleanly.
Cheers
Andy K
Well-known
Grip each half of the reel and turn the left one clockwise and the right one in the opposite direction. There will be a click and then they slide apart.
jimbobuk
Established
ahh cheers.. I read that later in the patterson instructions, nice that its constant for all reels.. this does indeed work.. do you prefer getting the film out this way or trying to reverse it out?
Andy K
Well-known
It is the safest way. If you try to reverse a wet film out of the reels there is a very good chance it will crease.
jimbobuk
Established
excellent, cheers... it seemed to me that way would be better as well.. strange the manual doesn't encourage it. I'm guessing you want to be careful when you are rotating to unlock the reel as that movement has to be non harmful to the film wrapped in the coils.
jimbobuk
Established
Ok, well I've just developed my first film this afternoon/evening.. it was quite a long drawn out affair as I stumbled through everything.. I wasn't able to work near a source of water and so had multiple trips to the tap to help stretch things out. Also i started with far too warm water (30 degrees) thinking it'd cool down rather quickly sadly this wasn't the case.. it took at least 30 mins to get down to 21 degrees or so.
My biggest worry was operating things inside my changing bag but this all seemed to work very well first time, was really quite chuffed at that.. I dont think i really touched the film too much at all.
Developing seemed to go quite well too, i adopted just to use the spindle to rotate the reel rather than inverting the tank as it would have proved very annoying putting the lid on and off again so many times.
Taking the film out i ended up twisting the two halves apart but having tried this on my practice roll i saw how the film then shoots into the centre of the spindle once the coiled ridges are removed by the two halves being split.. in the end i managed to pull the film out with no obvious signs of abuse from having done it.
Left it to dry for probably an hour or so and i've just started scanning some stuff in.
In all my planning i forgot perhaps the most important thing.. to get some covers/holders for the developed negatives!!!!! so they're having to share slots with other film at the moment.. probably not ideal for either of the films.
I've uploaded them to here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbobuk/sets/72057594134971903/
I'd appreciate it if you guys could have a look.. the shots are rubbish mostly.. I wasn't really expecting to get workable negatives out of my first attempt.. I'm mostly happy with them.. I've started scanning with my epson 4490 at 3200 dpi i think its probably the best resolution to scan in as at 100% viewing it almost stands up to scrutiny, where as at 4800 you really have to scale back to not be looking at an ugly set of pixels.
I've noticed quite a few have what look like hairs or scratches or burns in them.. I wasn't exactly careful with water source or anything else.. what exactly could cause these things? Looking with the naked eye the negatives dont seem to have that dirt on the surface anymore, though i've not really looked that closely... I'm assuming its the image of something that was there whilst developing was happening, or stopping/fixing etc.
On the whole though i'm rather chuffed with the quality, and relative ease of use... i was rather paranoid with the chemicals.. best way i reckon... I rinsed everything down afterwards.. sadly had to throw away the fixer and stop as i didn't have a bottle at hand to store them in.. something i'll be working on for next time round.
I used all odourless branded stuff apart from the developer, all fotospeed chemicals.. thankfully the developer didn't seem to have any smell at all..
Anyways thats about it.. your tips and pointers as ever are appreciated
My biggest worry was operating things inside my changing bag but this all seemed to work very well first time, was really quite chuffed at that.. I dont think i really touched the film too much at all.
Developing seemed to go quite well too, i adopted just to use the spindle to rotate the reel rather than inverting the tank as it would have proved very annoying putting the lid on and off again so many times.
Taking the film out i ended up twisting the two halves apart but having tried this on my practice roll i saw how the film then shoots into the centre of the spindle once the coiled ridges are removed by the two halves being split.. in the end i managed to pull the film out with no obvious signs of abuse from having done it.
Left it to dry for probably an hour or so and i've just started scanning some stuff in.
In all my planning i forgot perhaps the most important thing.. to get some covers/holders for the developed negatives!!!!! so they're having to share slots with other film at the moment.. probably not ideal for either of the films.
I've uploaded them to here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbobuk/sets/72057594134971903/
I'd appreciate it if you guys could have a look.. the shots are rubbish mostly.. I wasn't really expecting to get workable negatives out of my first attempt.. I'm mostly happy with them.. I've started scanning with my epson 4490 at 3200 dpi i think its probably the best resolution to scan in as at 100% viewing it almost stands up to scrutiny, where as at 4800 you really have to scale back to not be looking at an ugly set of pixels.
I've noticed quite a few have what look like hairs or scratches or burns in them.. I wasn't exactly careful with water source or anything else.. what exactly could cause these things? Looking with the naked eye the negatives dont seem to have that dirt on the surface anymore, though i've not really looked that closely... I'm assuming its the image of something that was there whilst developing was happening, or stopping/fixing etc.
On the whole though i'm rather chuffed with the quality, and relative ease of use... i was rather paranoid with the chemicals.. best way i reckon... I rinsed everything down afterwards.. sadly had to throw away the fixer and stop as i didn't have a bottle at hand to store them in.. something i'll be working on for next time round.
I used all odourless branded stuff apart from the developer, all fotospeed chemicals.. thankfully the developer didn't seem to have any smell at all..
Anyways thats about it.. your tips and pointers as ever are appreciated
clarence
ダメ
That is very impressive for a first roll. Congratulations and I hope you'll continue to enjoy playing with chemical soup!
Clarence
Clarence
jimbobuk
Established
I was surprised how trouble free most stages went.. yeah i'm really happy.. i'm sure i'll get it down with practice too.
Any ideas on the hair like marks.. you may have to view the fullsize image to see some clearly.. the picture of a tiny blip of a plane in the sky shows it up well against the bright sky.. more any tips onto reduce/remove this in the future?
I ended up scanning the negatives backwards to how the epson manual recommends, this way the film arches away from the scanner and so no newton rings like i was getting with the negatives the official way round... I wonder if there is an alternative 35mm and MF film holder that better holds the negatives tight and straight, as well as perhaps offering the height adjustment that may improve sharpness.
Anyways, sleep beckons.. cheers
Any ideas on the hair like marks.. you may have to view the fullsize image to see some clearly.. the picture of a tiny blip of a plane in the sky shows it up well against the bright sky.. more any tips onto reduce/remove this in the future?
I ended up scanning the negatives backwards to how the epson manual recommends, this way the film arches away from the scanner and so no newton rings like i was getting with the negatives the official way round... I wonder if there is an alternative 35mm and MF film holder that better holds the negatives tight and straight, as well as perhaps offering the height adjustment that may improve sharpness.
Anyways, sleep beckons.. cheers
Andy K
Well-known
Hi Jimbob, great first development, congratulations!
Ok, the little marks look like dust. Most likely this got on the film after it was removed from the reel.
When I hang my film to dry I hang it from a coat hanger (before I had film clips I used a plastic clothes peg) on the shower rail in the bathroom. About thirty minutes or so beforehand I run the shower hot so the room steams up and then leave it to clear with window and door shut. This helps clear any motes of dust from the air.
Regarding water. Before starting I fill a large stainless steel salad bowl (about 30cm across bought in Asda for a couple of quid) with water and get it to twenty degrees using the hot and cold taps. I then mix my chemicals from that using four one litre measuring jugs (one each for dev, stop and fix and one to fill the others, use a felt pen to write on the jugs what they contain: 'dev', 'stop', 'fix'). Once the chemicals are mixed I refill the bowl (to twenty degrees again) ready for rinsing the film.
That way everything is ready before I start the process and I don't have to worry about getting water. (fortunately I can work in my kitchen so that isn't a probnlem but it helps to have everything ready and set out before you start).
Perhaps you could persuade the family to let you use the bathroom or kitchen next time you develop.
Ok, the little marks look like dust. Most likely this got on the film after it was removed from the reel.
When I hang my film to dry I hang it from a coat hanger (before I had film clips I used a plastic clothes peg) on the shower rail in the bathroom. About thirty minutes or so beforehand I run the shower hot so the room steams up and then leave it to clear with window and door shut. This helps clear any motes of dust from the air.
Regarding water. Before starting I fill a large stainless steel salad bowl (about 30cm across bought in Asda for a couple of quid) with water and get it to twenty degrees using the hot and cold taps. I then mix my chemicals from that using four one litre measuring jugs (one each for dev, stop and fix and one to fill the others, use a felt pen to write on the jugs what they contain: 'dev', 'stop', 'fix'). Once the chemicals are mixed I refill the bowl (to twenty degrees again) ready for rinsing the film.
That way everything is ready before I start the process and I don't have to worry about getting water. (fortunately I can work in my kitchen so that isn't a probnlem but it helps to have everything ready and set out before you start).
Perhaps you could persuade the family to let you use the bathroom or kitchen next time you develop.
jimbobuk
Established
Thanks for the pointers Andy.. It will be a learning experience every time i do it i'm sure.
I plan to develop in the bathroom eventually and agreed I'll be doing more to get all the water at the right temp before i start.. i think i need a water jug to pour the water into the containers as i'm mixing.. I was paranoid about contaminating so started from scratch with water quite a lot. Even if i can't develop in the bathroom i may hang the negatives there just to try and get a more dust free environment.
I'm beliving you that it could be dust.. so many of them look like tiny hairs as well.. I was kinda under the impression that if it was dust after rinsing that i'd see it on the surface and be able to get the dust off, as i said i dont think i could see anything on the film as i was handling it. Is it possible the dust can scratch off the negative and cause this?
I assumed it was water quality, either contaminated containers or water so that those dust and hair like things were touching the surfaces of the film as developing and stopping was occuring hence permanetly altering their development?
I'm going to have to be more careful with regards the equipment as its not exactly an ideal place i'm storing them.. a garage... I'll try to put them in plastic air tight bags when i can to at least protect from any dust before starting procedures.. most important in this i guess will be the tank as its this that can't be wet before you start, so its not even like i can flush it before using like i could everything else.
Is using just water from the tap mostly ok? I've heard of using filtered/distilled water... would not using this ever cause things like what is visible on some of my pictures? I think generally our water quality is quite good.
Anyways good stuff.. the trick will be more practice runs and more happiness with resultant negs, hopefully with far less marks on them.. get to that point and developing film i actually care about will be the next step
Cheers
I plan to develop in the bathroom eventually and agreed I'll be doing more to get all the water at the right temp before i start.. i think i need a water jug to pour the water into the containers as i'm mixing.. I was paranoid about contaminating so started from scratch with water quite a lot. Even if i can't develop in the bathroom i may hang the negatives there just to try and get a more dust free environment.
I'm beliving you that it could be dust.. so many of them look like tiny hairs as well.. I was kinda under the impression that if it was dust after rinsing that i'd see it on the surface and be able to get the dust off, as i said i dont think i could see anything on the film as i was handling it. Is it possible the dust can scratch off the negative and cause this?
I assumed it was water quality, either contaminated containers or water so that those dust and hair like things were touching the surfaces of the film as developing and stopping was occuring hence permanetly altering their development?
I'm going to have to be more careful with regards the equipment as its not exactly an ideal place i'm storing them.. a garage... I'll try to put them in plastic air tight bags when i can to at least protect from any dust before starting procedures.. most important in this i guess will be the tank as its this that can't be wet before you start, so its not even like i can flush it before using like i could everything else.
Is using just water from the tap mostly ok? I've heard of using filtered/distilled water... would not using this ever cause things like what is visible on some of my pictures? I think generally our water quality is quite good.
Anyways good stuff.. the trick will be more practice runs and more happiness with resultant negs, hopefully with far less marks on them.. get to that point and developing film i actually care about will be the next step
Cheers