dave lackey
Veteran
The magic of developing film at home is something every photographer should experience. Wet printing, too, but that is a whole 'nother world.
Several years ago, I started developing film on my own and sometimes using a local lab's facilities. But life got in the way. I am now back to piecing my baseline together and it is great to know that some of my memory has been retained. But there is this issue about disposing of developer and fixer that still bugs me.
I love D76 for what I do... but I really do not want to pour it into the drain and I think Fixer may be worse.
RFF has so much knowledge about film processes and such, I just have to throw out the question of how to best handle the chemistry disposal. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Also, safety protocols would be good for us all, especially for those of us who are new or less-experienced. Thanks in advance for any help regarding the handling and disposal of chemicals involved in film developing.
Several years ago, I started developing film on my own and sometimes using a local lab's facilities. But life got in the way. I am now back to piecing my baseline together and it is great to know that some of my memory has been retained. But there is this issue about disposing of developer and fixer that still bugs me.
I love D76 for what I do... but I really do not want to pour it into the drain and I think Fixer may be worse.
RFF has so much knowledge about film processes and such, I just have to throw out the question of how to best handle the chemistry disposal. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Also, safety protocols would be good for us all, especially for those of us who are new or less-experienced. Thanks in advance for any help regarding the handling and disposal of chemicals involved in film developing.
Skiff
Well-known
Don't worry too much Dave.
Developer:
The developing substances in it like hydrochinone, p-aminophenole, p-phenylendiamine etc. are also used as main colouring substances in hair tinting lotions. And in them in even much higher concentrations compared to developers. Hundreds of millions of people / women are putting these substances down the drain.
Do have the wastewater treatment plants in cities any problems with that?
No.
Because the thousands of different micro organism types used in the plants use all these substances as food: They are metabolising them!
And: After developing your developer is oxidised, and also less harmful because of that.
Fixer:
In the used fixer there is silver. And that is harmful to microorganisms in the wastewater treatment plants. Therefore the fixer should be collected. And then given to recycling for silver recovery (you can also do that at home, and with the silver: make some jewelry for your wife with it ;-) ).
Developer:
The developing substances in it like hydrochinone, p-aminophenole, p-phenylendiamine etc. are also used as main colouring substances in hair tinting lotions. And in them in even much higher concentrations compared to developers. Hundreds of millions of people / women are putting these substances down the drain.
Do have the wastewater treatment plants in cities any problems with that?
No.
Because the thousands of different micro organism types used in the plants use all these substances as food: They are metabolising them!
And: After developing your developer is oxidised, and also less harmful because of that.
Fixer:
In the used fixer there is silver. And that is harmful to microorganisms in the wastewater treatment plants. Therefore the fixer should be collected. And then given to recycling for silver recovery (you can also do that at home, and with the silver: make some jewelry for your wife with it ;-) ).
Bill Clark
Veteran
Because of population, I believe Atlanta numbers are a lot higher than where I live here in Minneapolis.
At any rate, click on the link and look at the number of gallons that are processed each day here in Minneapolis area.
https://metrocouncil.org/About-Us/Facts/Wastewater-WaterF/FACTS-Wastewater.aspx
Here are some numbers from the link above:
“Collection interceptors carry wastewater to the 8 treatment plants, which have a combined capacity to treat 358 million gallons per day (mgd). In an average day, the plants treat 250 million gallons of wastewater from 109 of the region’s communities. The plants operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, and serve 2.6 million residents in the seven-county Twin Cities region. ”
For me, I don’t worry too much about the 300 or so ml it takes to develop a roll of film in my Paterson tank. With stand development and Rodinal I mix 6 ml stock to 600ml of water.
If I told you what we did in the Navy you’d probably roll your eyes. That was 50 years ago. One example, when we were doing shore bombardment with the big guns on targets what do you think happened to the powder casings?
At any rate, click on the link and look at the number of gallons that are processed each day here in Minneapolis area.
https://metrocouncil.org/About-Us/Facts/Wastewater-WaterF/FACTS-Wastewater.aspx
Here are some numbers from the link above:
“Collection interceptors carry wastewater to the 8 treatment plants, which have a combined capacity to treat 358 million gallons per day (mgd). In an average day, the plants treat 250 million gallons of wastewater from 109 of the region’s communities. The plants operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, and serve 2.6 million residents in the seven-county Twin Cities region. ”
For me, I don’t worry too much about the 300 or so ml it takes to develop a roll of film in my Paterson tank. With stand development and Rodinal I mix 6 ml stock to 600ml of water.
If I told you what we did in the Navy you’d probably roll your eyes. That was 50 years ago. One example, when we were doing shore bombardment with the big guns on targets what do you think happened to the powder casings?
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
You certainly should collect and reuse your fixer to the point of exhaustion, then recycle it properly to reclaim the silver (or at least keep it out of the water table); but I wouldn't worry about dumping developers down the drain. If you are on a septic system I would try to stick to developers like caffenol or Rodinal or vitamin C developers that don't have heavy metals and/or are used in very high dilutions, but if your waste water goes to a water treatment plant I wouldn't worry about it. As someone else pointed out, unless you are dumping huge (think commercial) volumes of the more toxic photo chemistry, you are likely pouring less toxic stuff down the drain than your neighbors.
:: Mark
Well-known
Despite the warnings about damage to aquatic wildlife, I believe that most developers are ok to dispose in a domestic drain providing that they are reasonably well diluted. Aside from the dilution, the active chemicals break down very quickly - at least for the developers that I have looked at.
FWIW, my other half runs a lab i the local university. Generally, avoid inhalation of fumes and any contact with skin (use disposable latex gloves or similar). Pre-dilluted developer such as DD-X or Ilfosol are preferable from a safety perspective and are more convenient.
The two most dangerous things I have are (i) HC-110 concentrate and (ii) power based developer. No matter how carefully the powder was mixed, we would find small stains on anything nearby and damp, thanks to escaping dust - the inhalation of which is definitely very unwise. Both the syrup and powders are relatively safe when diluted if you continue to use gloves and avoid eye splashes etc.
FWIW, my other half runs a lab i the local university. Generally, avoid inhalation of fumes and any contact with skin (use disposable latex gloves or similar). Pre-dilluted developer such as DD-X or Ilfosol are preferable from a safety perspective and are more convenient.
The two most dangerous things I have are (i) HC-110 concentrate and (ii) power based developer. No matter how carefully the powder was mixed, we would find small stains on anything nearby and damp, thanks to escaping dust - the inhalation of which is definitely very unwise. Both the syrup and powders are relatively safe when diluted if you continue to use gloves and avoid eye splashes etc.
x-ray
Veteran
Dave my degree is in chemistry and there's nothing really toxic in anything you're using. As mentioned some of the agents are used in hair dye and hydroquinone is used in skin cream to bleach age spots. Sodium Sulfite is used in wine to sterilize the bottles and as a preservative in some foods. Stop bath is basically acetic acid which is vinegar. Fixed is either sodium thiosulfite or amonium thiosulfite and neither are toxic. Sodium thiosulfate was used years ago as a treatment for fungal infections.
As far as silver, you're not likely shooting enough film to worry about silver but if you want to recover it simply put your spent fixed in a container and toss in some steel wool. Steel wool is what's in the old Kodak silver recovery cartridges. You're not likely to recover more than a few grams a year.
If you don't want to pour developer down the drain neutralize it with vinegar and then dispose of it.
As far as silver, you're not likely shooting enough film to worry about silver but if you want to recover it simply put your spent fixed in a container and toss in some steel wool. Steel wool is what's in the old Kodak silver recovery cartridges. You're not likely to recover more than a few grams a year.
If you don't want to pour developer down the drain neutralize it with vinegar and then dispose of it.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I was on a septic for many years, and ran a darkroom 4 days a week. I had the tank pumped regularly and there was never a problem of any kind. The only potential problem I was told to worry about (by Kodak tech IIRC) is too much water going through the system. Chemistry is not really an issue in the volumes you'd be using it, and as stated by many whenever this subject comes up, standard household cleaners are far worse for the septic.
Personal safety:
• Wear gloves when developing film, toning and cleaning up.
• Have a decent ventilation system and use it every time.
• Choose liquid chemistry over dry when possible, or wear a mask when mixing from powders.
• Clean up with damp rags when done mixing powdered chemistry and when done working for the day.
I've added to the above a pair of safety glasses when I develop film in tanks these days as some of my lids are starting to develop leaks and I occasionally have some escaping fixer (usually fixer for some reason). That's them in my user pic
Personal safety:
• Wear gloves when developing film, toning and cleaning up.
• Have a decent ventilation system and use it every time.
• Choose liquid chemistry over dry when possible, or wear a mask when mixing from powders.
• Clean up with damp rags when done mixing powdered chemistry and when done working for the day.
I've added to the above a pair of safety glasses when I develop film in tanks these days as some of my lids are starting to develop leaks and I occasionally have some escaping fixer (usually fixer for some reason). That's them in my user pic
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
XTOL is most friendly developer, I think. It is something like vitamin C, close to coffeenol.
One gallon of Kodak fixer in powder might last six months or more with dozens of films processed.
Ilford Rapid liquid fixer could be kept replenished for long time as well.
Regular water works just as good as stop bath.
Photo Flo working mix will also lasts for months.
So, for BW films developing is not eco banditto.
But with BW printing and C-41, E-6 is more waste into the drain.
One gallon of Kodak fixer in powder might last six months or more with dozens of films processed.
Ilford Rapid liquid fixer could be kept replenished for long time as well.
Regular water works just as good as stop bath.
Photo Flo working mix will also lasts for months.
So, for BW films developing is not eco banditto.
But with BW printing and C-41, E-6 is more waste into the drain.
dave lackey
Veteran
I was on a septic for many years, and ran a darkroom 4 days a week. I had the tank pumped regularly and there was never a problem of any kind. The only potential problem I was told to worry about (by Kodak tech IIRC) is too much water going through the system. Chemistry is not really an issue in the volumes you'd be using it, and as stated by many whenever this subject comes up, standard household cleaners are far worse for the septic.
Personal safety:
• Wear gloves when developing film, toning and cleaning up.
• Have a decent ventilation system and use it every time.
• Choose liquid chemistry over dry when possible, or wear a mask when mixing from powders.
• Clean up with damp rags when done mixing powdered chemistry and when done working for the day.
I've added to the above a pair of safety glasses when I develop film in tanks these days as some of my lids are starting to develop leaks and I occasionally have some escaping fixer (usually fixer for some reason). That's them in my user pic
Love your glasses, Bob, I have been meaning to tell you that for some time.