Developing Old Exposed Film

[MinorTones]

I used "search" function to find a thread on this topic, but found when I searched for "Old Film Developing" it only searched film and developing, not the word old. Conspiracy!

Anyway...
I have 2 rolls of delta 3200 I exposed about 2 years ago. I'm going to develope them in Illford DDX. I have developed old exposed film before and it came out flat. I'm wondering if I over develope the 3200 might I get a better result?
I know there is no cut and dry fix to this one other than cutting the slack and developing stuff on time heh.

Who knows they are probably blank film :bang:

-Mitch

 

[bmattock]

Mitch,

I do not know how well Diafine 'likes' Delta 3200, but if you can find any evidence that it does, I guess I'd recommend that over DDX. Reason being, a two-bath developer works by developing the neg to the extent that it can be developed, and then stops. On PNET, there are a couple of guys who enjoy buying old cameras with film left in them just to see what kind of images they can retrieve from them - and we're talking 20 or 40 year old film, and color as well as B&W. I seem to recall they recommend Diafine. I could be wrong.

Anyway, 2 years is really not that long in the scheme of things. I wonder why your other results came out wonky?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Bryan Lee]

I had some old film and a couple were good but a couple had fungus inside the can. For sure devolope them seperatley and depending on the first roll try to make the second one better maybe you will get lucky.

 

[MinorTones]

Good advice thanks guys. I'll be sure to develope the rolls separately, and adjust accordingly.

-Mitch

 

[bobofish]

Ahhh....says the not yet old curmudgeon.

I sometimes abuse the hell out of my film, often on purpose.

For example I've had a couple rolls of Delta 100 and 400 that are six years old, have been sitting on my balcony, and in the winter they freeze, in the summer they cook. I also forgot a couple of rolls on the dashboard of my car for three days, in 100F heat.

I develop in Microphen, push 100%, and get exactly what I want....which however is highly contrasty, blown shadows and an above average amount of grain. 😀

When in doubt, push two stops....says the bone-head from Portland.

 

[Kevin]

So how did you develop your 2-year-old Delta 3200 rolls and have they suffered from
fogging???

 

[XAos]

I just developed some 40 year old film in diafine. I got recognizable images, but I also got way too much development/push. It looked a lot like the Neopan 100 I shot at 100 instead of 160 and developed in diafine. Now - to be fair, I don't know how much of this was just chemistry change and age of the film. I don't get 40 year old rolls every day to develop. (And my choice would have been to send it out, but mom insisted that I try it.)

Diafine is almost magic, but not quite. If it were old tri-x I wouldn't hesitate to use diafine. I wouldn't use diafine automatically because of the age even though it was a film not normally regarded to work well in diafine though. And I'd be cautious about dunking low speed films of unknown exposure in it. (That I think is probably what got me.) That said, I should probably be thrilled that I got recognizable pictures out of it - it was after all, in addition to being 40 years old, shot by ordinary people - not photo enthusiasts - using a Brownie as a point and shoot camera.

 

[stevew]

Old exposures-Restrainers.

Old exposures-Restrainers.

Fogging can be a problem when developing old exposed film, although 2 years shouldn't be too much.

Restrainers such as benzotriazole can be added to the developer to reduce fogging. 1:10,000 normally is used. Probably hard to find now.

HC-110 developer is used by the scientific folk especially because of its low fog properties.

 

[JimG]

How not to develop old film

How not to develop old film

This film was exposed by my father in the 1940's I found the roll and developed it 3 years ago. It developed better then I expected but there are small white specks on the negs. that you can see on the attached images. (Taken with a Leica III)

 

[Kevin]

Microphen ?

Microphen ?

That's a blast from the past, Jim. How fun to see such an old pic for the first time! I was hoping to do the same but now.....

..........


The reason I ask about Mitch's Delta 3200 films is that I have a similar situation. I have lots more rolls than he does, however. Probably close to 70 exposed Delta 3200 films that I have stored in their canisters in the fridge starting around mid-2003.

Now I have been reading all over the internet about high-speed films' tendency to fog - even when when stored in a cool, dry place, caused by "cosmic radiation." Great news for the uninformed batch processor, don't you agree?

So now I am all paranoid that I have lost at least half of those films. Somewhere I read, however, that Microphen will minimize this cosmic fogging effect, so I think I will start processing the older rolls with this developer first and see what kind of damage has been done.

Other voices out there are praising Ilfotec DD-X for this film as well. Then there are some who say that ID-11 is their chose for Delta 3200. And yet others swear by XTol.

But I couldn't find a lot of data about out-of-date exposed Delta 3200 film.

 

[kaiyen]

Hm...

-Yes, Delta 3200 will fog from cosmic radiation fairly quickly. Shelf life in the fridge is probably in the neighborhood of 2-3 years. I have recently finished off my batch of Delta 3200 that was 2 years old and while it's got more than before, it's still manageable at my normal dev times. I did end up adding about 10% for the last few, though. Grain went up, but they were easier to scan.

-Microphen and it's kinda-liquid-twin DDX are both known for low base fog and good speed. I would agree that they are both excellent choices.

-I have read a number of times on PN that Diafine is not a great dev in terms of base fog minimization. I have not tried it, so can't help you.

If you can, try a clip test, or perhaps take a roll and a stab in the dark at a dev time. For instance, Delta 3200 @ 3200 in Microphen 1+0 for me is 13:00. I'd go for perhaps 15:00 to start off with, and be prepared to adjust from there.

allan

 

[Kevin]

Thanks Allan, I just came back from darkroom testing. It has been soooo long !!!

I developed a freshly-exposed film and one that appears to be about 6 months old, both exposed at 3200 asa. DDX 1:4 at 75F (24C) for 13 minutes, 1 inversion per minute. They are almost spot on! No fog and the negs are nice and contrasty, just the way I like them. A few frames are a bit thin but I will assume those were exposure errors.

John Hicks recommends 11 minutes at the same temperature for Delta 3200 exposed @ 2000 asa. So I added 2 minutes on top. By tomorrow I should have scans for a better validation.

BTW, I used one litre of mixed chemistry in a jobo tank with two reels. If I were to put four reels in the tank tomorrow and use the same mixed chemistry from today, how many minutes would you calculate based on today's depletion?

On the weekend I would also like to test a fresh and an old roll together in Microphen stock. But you say they are siblings?

 

[Kevin]

Chemistry !

Chemistry !

Fogging can be a problem when developing old exposed film, although 2 years shouldn't be too much.

Restrainers such as benzotriazole can be added to the developer to reduce fogging. 1:10,000 normally is used. Probably hard to find now.

HC-110 developer is used by the scientific folk especially because of its low fog properties.

Well the darkroom store expert also mentioned this "benzotriazole" and said it can be ordered over the web. If I encounter a fogged film along the way I will definately seek this stuff out.

In the shop I also saw a litre bottle of HC-110. It looks like honey. Do you recommend I test this as well and compare the results with DDX and Microphen? I also picked up Microdol-X and a 5-litre packet of XTol.

Do you think I should avoid using any of the latter chemistries on Delta 3200 at any particular ASA ?

Best,
Kevin

 

[T_om]

This film was exposed by my father in the 1940's I found the roll and developed it 3 years ago. It developed better then I expected but there are small white specks on the negs. that you can see on the attached images. (Taken with a Leica III)

Tonality held up well. I pulled these into PS and did a simple levels adjustment along with a curves adjustment to fix the contrast.

They turned out very nicely considering the age. I don' tknow where your spots came from, but they are not evenly distributed over the whole frame... just appear in the top third. Strange.

Tom

 

[kaiyen]

BTW, I used one litre of mixed chemistry in a jobo tank with two reels. If I were to put four reels in the tank tomorrow and use the same mixed chemistry from today, how many minutes would you calculate based on today's depletion?

Do you mean if you _reuse_ the 1+4 dilution you mixed up already? Generally, a working solution like you have is not to be reused. Single-shot only.

On the weekend I would also like to test a fresh and an old roll together in Microphen stock. But you say they are siblings?

They are both phenidone-based, speed-enhancing, relatively low-grain developers. They are not otherwise chemically the same. People just say they give similar results.

I'm glad it's working out for you. Like I said, I have seen some 3 year old D3200 with what seemed to be increased fog (contrast seemed low for the dev time), but I've shot 2 year old that's been okay with a very slight increase in time. YMMV, but it sounds like you're doing okay.

allan

 

[Kevin]

Do you mean if you _reuse_ the 1+4 dilution you mixed up already? Generally, a working solution like you have is not to be reused. Single-shot only.

So if I were to have used 500ml instead of one litre while developing the two films, the development time might have been different? In other words I could have developed 4 films in that tank but only put in two. Surely there is some life left in the working solution? ??

They are both phenidone-based, speed-enhancing, relatively low-grain developers. They are not otherwise chemically the same. People just say they give similar results.

I'm glad it's working out for you. Like I said, I have seen some 3 year old D3200 with what seemed to be increased fog (contrast seemed low for the dev time), but I've shot 2 year old that's been okay with a very slight increase in time. YMMV, but it sounds like you're doing okay.

allan

I hope the older films turn out the same. Do you have any recommendations concerning the Microdol-X and XTol ? Should I use them for other films?

 

[kaiyen]

So if I were to have used 500ml instead of one litre while developing the two films, the development time might have been different? In other words I could have developed 4 films in that tank but only put in two. Surely there is some life left in the working solution? ??

Most companies quote something like 12 hours at the most for working solution shelf life. Once you dilute it, use it and toss it.

You always need a certain minimum amount of developer per roll. I have no idea what it is for either Microphen or DDX. Other than making sure you have that amount, the only other concern is having enough to cover the reels, plus a little extra for spillage and reel movement in the tank.

The amount of developer you use has no impact on development time. You could have put your two rolls in a 5 gallon monster tank and it sitll would've been the same time (though obviously somewhat less practical of a method).

I hope the older films turn out the same. Do you have any recommendations concerning the Microdol-X and XTol ? Should I use them for other films?

Well, Microdol will cost you speed, so I can't imagine wanting to use that for the Delta 3200 stuff. It is usually used with slower films to minimize grain.

XTOL is a great developer, and perhaps the most modern one out there. I haven't used it myself, though, so I can't comment. I don't believe it gives you the same speed boost as Microphen, though. Perhaps a bit less.

allan

 

[Kevin]

Thanks so much, Allan! You've been a big help.
Kevin

 

[Kevin]

So tonight I developed 4 rolls of Delta 3200 shot@3200 in Microphen stock. 10 minutes at 75F (24C) with 1 inversion per minute. The negs are also nice and contrasty and I don't see any difference between the 1 fresh film and the 3 6-month-old films.

Whew.

 

[kaiyen]

Let's see...10 minutse at 24C is about 14:30 at 20C. Wow - not much of a difference. But it worked out. Cool.

allan