Developing over-size roll film?

Muggins

Muggins

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I have finally got myself a roll of exposed 118 film so I can use the backing paper in my No3 Kodak, and I'd like to develop it. Has anyone else developed a similarly oversized film and, if so, could you share your method please?

I do realise this may be a mug's game - I have developed various found films, with results ranging from the really interesting to the embarrassingly blank, and I do know that it's at least 54 years old, so the odds are definitely against me getting any images, but nonetheless I'm intrigued as to what might be on it, and for what I pay for chemicals etc it's only my time I'm wasting.

The problem is its size - the film is much wider than 120 (it's 3 1/4"

wide), so won't fit on a spiral. I could try the method suggested in the 1912 edition of "How to Make Good Photographs", which involves wetting first by dipping into a tank a bit like pasting up wallpaper, then squashing it down into the tank, but I'm concerned that over half a century of being tightly rolled will leave it like a spring (though in that case I guess I could prewet, then out into a tall tank?).

Any ideas would be very welcome!

Many thanks,

Adrian
 
What's the length? 4 feet or so? I'd set up as if I were doing dip and dunk 4X5 with tanks. Do a prewet to help resolve the curling as it's probably dried out. I may be tempted to put a drop of LFN in the prewet though I'm not sure that's a great idea. For the developer just keep the film agitated and try to keep it from sticking to itself or you'll wind up with the dreaded grey splotches. It should be easy once you get past the developer.
 
If you are willing to sacrifice a centre core to the cause, you can use short self tapping screws to locate the two ends of a Paterson reel onto it spaced with their spirals at the appropriate distance apart in order to load it. When someone needed an old 116 roll of Verichrome Pan developed a few weeks ago (70mm short roll, I think, and one of the oldest roll film formats?) this was how I did it. Gratifyingly, there were actually several usable images on that film. Naturally you will also need a tank tall enough to take the modified spiral set up, but one able to accomodate two 35mm reels or if needed, two 120 reels will certainly suffice. I used the former for my hacked 70mm reel but 118 sounds wider again so you might need the slightly larger size.
Cheers,
Brett
 
Oh good heavens. Don't tell me the procedure of tankless film processing has been lost in antiquity like Egyptian mummification. It ain't rocket science or brain surgery. Put your three chemicals in three trays like you were going to print pictures. Turn out the light. This is the most important part of the whole process. Nobody ever thinks about it, but if you don't turn out the light, everything you do from then on is worthless, but you knew that. That' s why nobody gives it a second thought! Anyway, remove the film from the paper backing and hold it by each end so it hangs down in the shape of the letter U (actually, a catenary to be scientifically accurate, and we do want to be scientifically accurate, don't we). Lower the film into the developer tray until you feel the film touch the bottom of the tray. Then see saw the film from end to end by raising one hand while lowering the other. Obviously you want to keep the film in contact with the bottom of the tray at all times. I'd strongly suggest practicing this with some old film, a tray of water, and the lights on until you get a feel for it. Continue on with the stop bath and fixer. Turn on the lights, wash and print!
 
BTDT and while it isn't easy it's not hard. I didn't do it but a deeper tray ought to help I'd have thought. Wasn't there some trick to encourage the bottom of the U to stay in the developer? Just something with a little weight?
 
Can you find a really old Patterson tank? I have one that does "odd" (i.e. old-fashined) sizes - the top spiral slides up and down on the centre shaft with a spring detent at the correct size for 127, 35mm 120 and others which I forget.

Where are you located? I might be willing to loan (or even sell) the tank if it's of any use to you, but it is a) old and b) Bakelite so a bit fragile for overseas shipping (I'm in the UK)

I'll check the sizes that it covers and report back later.
 
Well, I'm learning fast here! I'd never seen one of those tanks - I thought I might be able to use my 1920s one with a similar apron device, but that turns out to be a 120 one. John - if the tank will do 118, I'm in Oxford, I'd love to borrow it (actually... I have a Bakelite tank I'd forgotten about... I onder if that would fit it?)

Spavinaw, that's the method I was considering! It was just the likelihood of crazy curl that was worrying me, I guess I've shot too much Efke...

Thanks guys, really appreciate that.

Adrian
 
The only thing I could add to Spavinaw would be the consideration of using a piece of plastic tubing, such as small PVC, to help keep the film from rubbing on the bottom of the tray. Also, if I remember correctly, the developing time has to be reduced due to the constant agitation. I've never done it, but used to read about it from time to time many years ago. That method can also be used for overly large prints.

If you use the aprons, you might want to consider stand development in Rodinal. You may remember a couple or three years ago Keith developed some very old film and I believe that was the method he used.
 
+1 Dip and dunk. If it's orthochromatic film you can also use a safelight.

rybolt said:
What's the length? 4 feet or so? I'd set up as if I were doing dip and dunk 4X5 with tanks. Do a prewet to help resolve the curling as it's probably dried out. I may be tempted to put a drop of LFN in the prewet though I'm not sure that's a great idea. For the developer just keep the film agitated and try to keep it from sticking to itself or you'll wind up with the dreaded grey splotches. It should be easy once you get past the developer.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, everyone. I'm thinking HC110 to reduce fogging rather than Rodinal, and I can probably find a couple of bits of piping to keep it off the bottom of the tank (in fact, two underneath and one on top might make sure it stays in the developer? Though it could scratch the emulsion?), so if I need to go that way I think I'm prepared, just need to find the right tray. The only other worry will be RSI!

Unfortunately, although it's of an age that it could have been Ortho, it's Verichrome Pan, so it's panchromatic. One day I must try some Ortho film!

Adrian
 
Spavinaw said:
Oh good heavens. Don't tell me the procedure of tankless film processing has been lost in antiquity like Egyptian mummification. It ain't rocket science or brain surgery. Put your three chemicals in three trays like you were going to print pictures. Turn out the light. This is the most important part of the whole process. Nobody ever thinks about it, but if you don't turn out the light, everything you do from then on is worthless, but you knew that. That' s why nobody gives it a second thought! Anyway, remove the film from the paper backing and hold it by each end so it hangs down in the shape of the letter U (actually, a catenary to be scientifically accurate, and we do want to be scientifically accurate, don't we). Lower the film into the developer tray until you feel the film touch the bottom of the tray. Then see saw the film from end to end by raising one hand while lowering the other. Obviously you want to keep the film in contact with the bottom of the tray at all times. I'd strongly suggest practicing this with some old film, a tray of water, and the lights on until you get a feel for it. Continue on with the stop bath and fixer. Turn on the lights, wash and print!
Click to expand...

This............................
 
Muggins said:
Spavinaw, that's the method I was considering! It was just the likelihood of crazy curl that was worrying me, I guess I've shot too much Efke...
Click to expand...

That's the thing I always wondered about with the see-saw method too. Most of the old roll films I have developed have had such a stiff curl to them that there is absolutely no way they would have been able to hang nicely without twisting and bunching up. Unless wetting the roll first takes care of this? I'm curious to know as someday I may need to try it (at the moment I have reels that can handle up to 116/70mm size, but no wider).

The HC-110 is a good choice, often recommended for developing old exposed film, and what I use for the task.

Jeff
 
Muggins said:
Well, I'm learning fast here! I'd never seen one of those tanks - I thought I might be able to use my 1920s one with a similar apron device, but that turns out to be a 120 one. John - if the tank will do 118, I'm in Oxford, I'd love to borrow it (actually... I have a Bakelite tank I'd forgotten about... I onder if that would fit it?)

Adrian
Click to expand...

Oh Adrian,

I was in Oxford last weekend, introducing my wife to the delights of Pitt-Rivers (she nearly feinted when we first went in!)

I will dig out the tank and see what is inscribed in respect of film sizes - more soon.
 
You old romantic, John! I know what you mean, though, wonderful place.

I await with anticipation - I dug my old tank out last night, and it takes nothing wider than 120. Still, even if it yours is the same, dip and dunk will be a new experience!

Adrian
 
Well, I took advantage of a wet bank holiday weekend to have a go at dip and dunk, and after all that it was blank, no evidence even that it had ever been exposed.

On the other hand, dip and dunk even in a shallow tray wasn't too much like hard work (helped by popping in a thermometer to keep the film from lifting out), so if I need to do it again... and I now have a 118 backing paper I can use with 120.

Such is life...

Adrian
 
Adrian,

Sorry, I have not been able to findthe old tank - I thought I new exactly where it was, along with my Alden 200ft daylight loader, but they have both dissapeared :eek:

I just hope my wife hasn't sent them off to the local charity shop :bang:

I'll let you know when it turns up
 
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Adrian,

I found the tank - it's a Johnson of Hendon one, not Paterson, and must be 50+ years old.

There is a detent that is larger than 120 - about 8 - 12mm larger in fact, so that could be 118? (I didn't have my glasses on, so could not see any markings on the tank), it's the absolute max size that can be fitted in the tank.

I think this one will do a wide range of sizes - 11mm, 16mm 127, 35mm 120 and (possibly) 118. Black bakelite with (originally) a rod for swirl agitation. The rod is long gone, so I use a hexagonal biro which works just as well. Somewhere I have a thermometer in a hex housing that fits it too, but I haven't seen that for a while....

[edit] It looks like it might be a J-20 tank, it is very like the one on this page:-

http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Paterson/Developing_Tanks.html

So I wonder if it is 116, rather than 118?

There appear to be plenty on the video game around a fiver.
 
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