developing slides without a processor?

[aizan]

how hard is it to do manually? got any methods to control temperature, time, and agitation precisely and consistently enough? is the difficulty overblown?

 

[Trius]

how hard is it to do manually? got any methods to control temperature, time, and agitation precisely and consistently enough? is the difficulty overblown?

Aizan: Many years ago I did a few rolls of Agfachrome and Ektachrome in E6 chemistry from Bogen or Tetenal... I can't remember. I was scared s#@tless that my shots would be pooched.

However, they came out perfectly processed, and I think I was more thrilled than when I saw my first roll of b&w come out of the fixer.

I mixed the chemicals at the right temperature and simply used a water bath to maintain the termperature. IIRC, I had a calculator that had an interval timer funcition. I could set it to count down and beep every 30 seconds, so I used that to keep the agitation right on.

I think the key to my success was thinking through things very carefully, rehearsing it in my mind, and relaxing as much as I could.

Come to think of it, with all the cheapo Elitechrome I picked up laterly, I may give it another go.

Trius

 

[Roger Hicks]

Big bucket of hot water; kettle to top it up; extend agintation maybe 15 per cent... Yes, it's doable. I've done it. But a secpnd-hand CPE2 doesn't cost much and lets you process 5 films in 600ml of E6, and is easier and better.

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)

 

[RichardS]

It certainly can be done. Start with the chemicals on the high side of the recommended temperatures, I haven't developed slide film for years but I think it allows for a few degrees of temperature variation, and stick the tank in a tray of hot water to keep the chemicals at the proper temperatures. I think someone now makes a process that allows room temperature but I never tried it and don't remember who makes it.

You'll have a strip of slides. You might want to mount them which will mean a bit more work.

Dick

 

[phototone]

how hard is it to do manually? got any methods to control temperature, time, and agitation precisely and consistently enough? is the difficulty overblown?

DEVELOPING SLIDES can be done with the most simple and primitive of equipment, all you need really (besides the bottles to put the mixed chemistry in) is a film developing tank and film developing thermometer, and a source of adjustable hot and cold water.

I have developed Ektachromes since the E-3 process, which I did in my parents bathroom back in the '60's. By comparison the E-6 proceess is a piece of cake.

The only BIG difference between developing color slides (E-6) and b/w negatives, is that E-6 has more steps (more chemicals) and is done at 100f rather than at 68f to 75f. Thus, the chemistry has to be heated, and kept at correct temperature in a water bath. (Think dishwashing tub sitting in bathtub with tempered water running in with bottles partially submerged and overflow running off into tub and into drain)

The first developer and color developer are the only ones absolutely critical as to temperature, the others can vary by a few degrees.

 

[phototone]

You may wish to keep your processed film in strips, or you may wish to cut and mount the film as individual slides. You can purchase a small quantity of Pakon slide mounts in packs of 100, and this size even comes with a little hand-held "mounter" thingy that spreads the slide mount apart so the cut frame slides in without scratching. You would need to handle the film and the cut frames with cotton gloves to keep fingerprints off.

 

[aizan]

i have a $5 delta thermometer. is that precise enough? i'm thinking no. i already have the ss tanks, reels, bottles, timer, and tub.

the water in the kettle has to be hotter, right? it doesn't seem like i'd need a running source of tempered water....

 

[kiev4a]

The rule back in the E-4 days was you needed to keep the temps plus or minus 1/2 degree F. I don't think it's quite that critical but it's best to have an accurate thermometer. If your developer runs too hot the contrast can get out of control quickly. The color chemicals are quite perisable after they are mixed so the only way to do it at home and be cost effective is to have enough exposed rolls so you can used the kit to it's maximum capacity fairly quickly.

 

[phototone]

The color chemicals are quite perisable after they are mixed so the only way to do it at home and be cost effective is to have enough exposed rolls so you can used the kit to it's maximum capacity fairly quickly.

That is a load of blarney. I have processed E-6 for 30 years, Before I got my sink line, I used to process a lot of film using the 1/2 gallon processing kit offered by Kodak. I used old 1/2 gallon bleach bottles thoroughly rinsed out, got them from the waste bins at Laundromats. These are opaque, but white. I used to put a big wash tub into my bathtub put the full bottles of chemistry in it, and fill the wash tub with 110f water, I would then turn the water down to trickle water into it at slightly above 100 degrees, and leave it for an hour or so for the chemicals to warm up. It might take longer. The surplus water would spill over the wash tub into the bathtub and go right down the drain. I would process the film with my stainless steel tanks immersing the tank between agitation cycles in the tub of water, perhaps sitting it on a submerged riser so as to not let the water get over the top of the tank. I would use each chemical and then repour it into its jug with a funnel, recap it and then sit it on the floor, outside the tub, so as to have a good idea of what was already done. I used to mix up chemistry once a month, sometimes I would wait two months, still got good results. The only really critical chemical for precise temperature control is the first developer, which should be within 1/2 degree of 100f. The Color Developer can vary 1 or 2 degrees either side of 100f, and the others can vary up to about 10 degrees.
If you can't use up the capacity of a 1/2 gallon kit within 30 to 45 days, you can extend the life of the kit by mixing up new First & Color Developers as these are the only ones that have a limited life span. Over the years Kodak has made running improvements in the process and it is now the most stable process ever.

The results using fresh chemistry in a home processing situation can be even better than the automatic processing machines used by 1 hour labs, as they use replenished chemistry, which may be years old, and if they don't run test strips regularly and adjust the process their results will not be the same quality as fresh chemistry used and then disposed of within a couple of months. At home, you can "push" your film also by extending the developing time in the first developer. Sometimes you may want to do this to extend the life of the first developer if you are approaching the end of the 30 to 45 days and you need to get one or two more rolls processed.

Everything I say above is from personal experience of many years, and may deviate from the technical data published by Kodak. I still process E-6 regularly for my Commercial Studio photography, but I have an old Kreonite water-jacket sink with stainless steel 3.5 gallon tanks for each chemical and nitrogen burst and air burst agitation now. I still have to manually dip and dunk the reels or hangers of film though, no automation there, just me and a timer with glo-in-the-dark hands. However, if my volume for my own commercial work dwindled down to a bare minimum I would not hesitate to go back to the 1/2 gallon jugs and do it in a wash tub.

Additional note. You can use a cheap thermometer, just calibrate it against a known accurate thermometer at 100f.

For those of you who might be curious, the timings of the process are as follows, and this is using Kodak chemistry. 100f processing temperature.

First Developer 6.5 min.
Water Rinse 2 min
Reversal Bath 2 min.
(remaining steps can be in light)
Color Developer 6 min.
Pre-bleach 2 min.
Bleach 6 min. (vigorous and frequent agitation)
Fix 4 min.
Wash 6 min.
Final rinse (similar to Photoflo) 30 sec.

hang up in dust free place to dry.

 

[jlw]

I'll second the above comments that it's perfectly feasible to do E-6 at home.

My tip: Instead of a sink or laundry tub, buy a foam picnic cooler for a few dollars and use that as your water bath. Keep the lid on the cooler when you're not actually sloshing stuff around. Using the cooler and lid keeps the temperature constant with much less effort.

About thermometer accuracy: Consistency is more important than absolute accuracy. In other words, even if your thermometer is off by a degree or so, you can still get good results as long as it's consistent enough to let you hit the same temperature every time. Try a test roll first, and you may find you have to change your first-developer time a bit to compensate for your thermometer being off, but once you've got an adjusted time, it will give good results on future rolls.

What I used to do, back when I ran E-6 at home, was fill my foam cooler with water and adjust the temperature to 101 degrees as shown on my dial thermometer. I'd wait a bit to make sure this temperature was stable (keeping the lid on helped a lot; I just poked my thermometer through a little hole in the lid so I could check it without taking the lid off.) Then I'd float my loaded tank (plastic Paterson type) and all my chemical bottles in the water, put the lid back on the cooler, and let them sit for an hour, to bring them to temperature equilibrium with the water in the cooler.

After the one-hour wait, I'd process the film -- the plastic developing tank retained enough heat to keep the first developer (the only one that's really temperature-critical) at almost exactly 100 degrees once the tank came out of the water bath and went on the tank roller. The foam cooler kept the rest of the chemical steps at a very nearly constant temperature without any further attention. It was really pretty easy.

Between processing sessions, you can store your empty chemical bottles, thermometer, developing tank, etc., in the foam cooler. Aside from chemicals and film, this stuff, a changing bag, and some kind of slide mounter are really all you need to do E-6 processing at home.

 

[Trius]

Phototone & jlw are right on the money. As long as you have at least the minimum required equipment, you can do it. Just read up on what you need to do, study the steps, write out a plan that is easy to follow, and go at it.

If you wanted to, you could write a little computer program to audibly prompt you for each step and agitation cycle.

Finally, what phototone said about the results potentially being better than commercial processing is true. One-shot or limited use of chemicals maintains consistency of processing. I remember when I pulled my first roll of Agfachrome 50 out and man, was I amazed at how good it looked! Isn't Tetenal a German firm? Must have been the synergy between their chemistry and Agfa film!

Trius

 

[kiev4a]

I was speaking of experience a long time ago with E-4. Two months is a "relatively short" life span. Thanks for the more up-to-date info.

That is a load of blarney. I have processed E-6 for 30 years, Before I got my sink line, I used to process a lot of film using the 1/2 gallon processing kit offered by Kodak. I used old 1/2 gallon bleach bottles thoroughly rinsed out, got them from the waste bins at Laundromats. These are opaque, but white. I used to put a big wash tub into my bathtub put the full bottles of chemistry in it, and fill the wash tub with 110f water, I would then turn the water down to trickle water into it at slightly above 100 degrees, and leave it for an hour or so for the chemicals to warm up. It might take longer. The surplus water would spill over the wash tub into the bathtub and go right down the drain. I would process the film with my stainless steel tanks immersing the tank between agitation cycles in the tub of water, perhaps sitting it on a submerged riser so as to not let the water get over the top of the tank. I would use each chemical and then repour it into its jug with a funnel, recap it and then sit it on the floor, outside the tub, so as to have a good idea of what was already done. I used to mix up chemistry once a month, sometimes I would wait two months, still got good results. The only really critical chemical for precise temperature control is the first developer, which should be within 1/2 degree of 100f. The Color Developer can vary 1 or 2 degrees either side of 100f, and the others can vary up to about 10 degrees.
If you can't use up the capacity of a 1/2 gallon kit within 30 to 45 days, you can extend the life of the kit by mixing up new First & Color Developers as these are the only ones that have a limited life span. Over the years Kodak has made running improvements in the process and it is now the most stable process ever.

The results using fresh chemistry in a home processing situation can be even better than the automatic processing machines used by 1 hour labs, as they use replenished chemistry, which may be years old, and if they don't run test strips regularly and adjust the process their results will not be the same quality as fresh chemistry used and then disposed of within a couple of months. At home, you can "push" your film also by extending the developing time in the first developer. Sometimes you may want to do this to extend the life of the first developer if you are approaching the end of the 30 to 45 days and you need to get one or two more rolls processed.

Everything I say above is from personal experience of many years, and may deviate from the technical data published by Kodak. I still process E-6 regularly for my Commercial Studio photography, but I have an old Kreonite water-jacket sink with stainless steel 3.5 gallon tanks for each chemical and nitrogen burst and air burst agitation now. I still have to manually dip and dunk the reels or hangers of film though, no automation there, just me and a timer with glo-in-the-dark hands. However, if my volume for my own commercial work dwindled down to a bare minimum I would not hesitate to go back to the 1/2 gallon jugs and do it in a wash tub.

Additional note. You can use a cheap thermometer, just calibrate it against a known accurate thermometer at 100f.

For those of you who might be curious, the timings of the process are as follows, and this is using Kodak chemistry. 100f processing temperature.

First Developer 6.5 min.
Water Rinse 2 min
Reversal Bath 2 min.
(remaining steps can be in light)
Color Developer 6 min.
Pre-bleach 2 min.
Bleach 6 min. (vigorous and frequent agitation)
Fix 4 min.
Wash 6 min.
Final rinse (similar to Photoflo) 30 sec.

hang up in dust free place to dry.

 

[phototone]

Finally, what phototone said about the results potentially being better than commercial processing is true. One-shot or limited use of chemicals maintains consistency of processing. I remember when I pulled my first roll of Agfachrome 50 out and man, was I amazed at how good it looked! Isn't Tetenal a German firm? Must have been the synergy between their chemistry and Agfa film!

Trius

I remember when Agfachrome was a propriatary process only available through Agfa. The film came with a processing bag to mail it back for processing. ha ha. Of course now, all transparency films (other than Kodachrome) are Kodak E-6 compatible. Yes Tetenal is a German brand of chemistry, although Agfa also markets their own E-6 processing kits, but these may be only available in large volume mixes.

My statement about the quality of E-6 processing in comparing home processing to a mini-lab is just that. Compared to a mini-lab. There are large professional labs that do a superb job of E-6, but it is costly. Many local camera store mini-labs are not maintained correctly, and are run by semi-skilled help who wouldn't know how to read a test strip anyway.

Speaking of Tetenal, there are several brands of do-it-yourself home process E-6 chemistry sets. Some have shorter processing times than the Kodak Chemistry, some have fewer steps, some even allow more freedom in temperature control, but if you want your slides to last the longest time and have the most stable dyes, I think it is best to use (here in the USA) the Kodak brand of chemistry, as they invented the process and they have continued to improve it over the years.