haagen_dazs
Well-known
a newbie question
i have always dealt with alot of digital post processing, so film is quite new to me....
couple of qns
from what i understand, the colour, contrast, sharpness and push pull is quite dependent on the operator and on the equipment.
i was wondering if there are any reasonably good places to send my film for developing (colour negatives and b/w)
please kindly provide some suggestions.
will i have to mail the film to them?
are there any places in the Cental NJ area that i could possible get to?
where are some sources to get good b/w film or pro colour film...
i think the usual walmart, stop and shop etc etc probably sell consumer film.. (i might be wrong but havent had the time to check things out yet since i received my bessa)
many many thanks
i have always dealt with alot of digital post processing, so film is quite new to me....
couple of qns
from what i understand, the colour, contrast, sharpness and push pull is quite dependent on the operator and on the equipment.
i was wondering if there are any reasonably good places to send my film for developing (colour negatives and b/w)
please kindly provide some suggestions.
will i have to mail the film to them?
are there any places in the Cental NJ area that i could possible get to?
where are some sources to get good b/w film or pro colour film...
i think the usual walmart, stop and shop etc etc probably sell consumer film.. (i might be wrong but havent had the time to check things out yet since i received my bessa)
many many thanks
C
ch1
Guest
For most color film (not "chrome: - i.e. slide film) and what are called "chromogenic" B&W films you can get quick, and hopefully decent, developing from W-Mart, Target, your local 1-hour developer etc.
Note: "Chromogenic films" are B&W like films that use the common C-41 color film processing that "quickie developer places" are set up for.
These developers will provide you with negatives and, if you want, prints.
Since I now scan all my negatives, I do not ask for prints (saves a few $) - I just ask for "develop only, please cut and sleeve the negaitives".
That costs me $4.00 for a roll of 24 exposure (what I paid today) of what this time was "chromogenic" B&W.
Now you can also shoot what is known as "professional" B&W film (e./g. Kodak Tri-X and the various other similar high quality films offered by Fuji, Ilford (HP5+) etc.
I still have these developed by someone else - so the "quickie" places take the rolls in but send them out to specialist "labs"
This adds a delay to getting your film back and - sadly - often I find it is scratched etc. The "labs" do not seem to care as much about us "little" guys who are, in fact, third party buyers.
The answer, which I am coming around to, and which many here practice is to develop your own high quality B&W film. Even though it has to "go to the labs" from the quickie places - apparently, it is the easiest to develop on one's own.
Go figure.
Now, I'll let the "experts" come in with corrections, elaborations and explanation etc (Oh, and since it's me - some may come in with expletives too!
)
Note: "Chromogenic films" are B&W like films that use the common C-41 color film processing that "quickie developer places" are set up for.
These developers will provide you with negatives and, if you want, prints.
Since I now scan all my negatives, I do not ask for prints (saves a few $) - I just ask for "develop only, please cut and sleeve the negaitives".
That costs me $4.00 for a roll of 24 exposure (what I paid today) of what this time was "chromogenic" B&W.
Now you can also shoot what is known as "professional" B&W film (e./g. Kodak Tri-X and the various other similar high quality films offered by Fuji, Ilford (HP5+) etc.
I still have these developed by someone else - so the "quickie" places take the rolls in but send them out to specialist "labs"
This adds a delay to getting your film back and - sadly - often I find it is scratched etc. The "labs" do not seem to care as much about us "little" guys who are, in fact, third party buyers.
The answer, which I am coming around to, and which many here practice is to develop your own high quality B&W film. Even though it has to "go to the labs" from the quickie places - apparently, it is the easiest to develop on one's own.
Go figure.
Now, I'll let the "experts" come in with corrections, elaborations and explanation etc (Oh, and since it's me - some may come in with expletives too!
)
jcline
Established
Developing your own B/W is as simple or complex as you want it to be. How's that for an answer. It's not very expensive, and quite a lot of fun to experiment with. I develop color at home as well but lets put it this way, I never expect it to turn out perfect. (Though nothing has come out as bad as my first roll did). I'm very pro having lots of control and souping your own will definitely give you that.
I'll give ya the advice everyone gave me, find a community college and take a photo class, or just go get some chemicals and try it out. Call your local waste place and ask about disposing of it. I generally flush developer (sewer not sink), and hold on to the fixer until I've got a couple gallons and then make an appointment with the local folks to take me hazards waste folks and they take it off my hands.
If you're not up to it (or more likely, don't have a way to scan/print it), perhaps mailers are the best way to go if you can't find a local lab that will take care of you right.
Mailers as well as film is available online from all kinds of places. You might try these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/
http://www.adorama.com/
http://www.jandcphoto.com/
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/ <--- my personal favorite
http://www.google.com/
I'll give ya the advice everyone gave me, find a community college and take a photo class, or just go get some chemicals and try it out. Call your local waste place and ask about disposing of it. I generally flush developer (sewer not sink), and hold on to the fixer until I've got a couple gallons and then make an appointment with the local folks to take me hazards waste folks and they take it off my hands.
If you're not up to it (or more likely, don't have a way to scan/print it), perhaps mailers are the best way to go if you can't find a local lab that will take care of you right.
Mailers as well as film is available online from all kinds of places. You might try these:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/
http://www.adorama.com/
http://www.jandcphoto.com/
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/ <--- my personal favorite
http://www.google.com/
sooner
Well-known
Hey Mark,
I grew up in Chatham, NJ, by the way. I'm also a newbie and develop my own b&w at home, using a very simple setup: single developing tank, HC110 developer, ILford fix, hypoclear. Others like the control (to push/pull, or whatever), I just like the freedom to finish a roll and not have to drive across town and then wait three days. Either take a course or buy a book, or google it, and go. It's really easy. Then, the choice is between scanning your negs versus going the full darkroom with enlarger route. Good luck....John.
I grew up in Chatham, NJ, by the way. I'm also a newbie and develop my own b&w at home, using a very simple setup: single developing tank, HC110 developer, ILford fix, hypoclear. Others like the control (to push/pull, or whatever), I just like the freedom to finish a roll and not have to drive across town and then wait three days. Either take a course or buy a book, or google it, and go. It's really easy. Then, the choice is between scanning your negs versus going the full darkroom with enlarger route. Good luck....John.
kaiyen
local man of mystery
I like being redundant and giving repetitive advice just to hear myself talk so ...
For color, just find just about any 1 hour lab that is willing to do develop only. If you get to know the operator there and they seem to be diligent about cleaning the machine, then you can probably get a CD and/or prints made as well without scratching your negatives.
If you start pushing and pulling your color film that's different. However, color print film has tremendous latitude. If you push or pull 1 stop then you're probably fine developing as normal. With that much flexibility, it's possible to avoid pushes and pulls more than that if you just keep the right film handy.
For B&W, I also recommend shooting either chromogenic and doing as above, or developing your own. It can be very simple. Several of us can go into very specific detail about what you'll need and what to do. Or we can send you to a PDF that says the same thing. But, once again, the former let's us (me) talk more
allan
...For color, just find just about any 1 hour lab that is willing to do develop only. If you get to know the operator there and they seem to be diligent about cleaning the machine, then you can probably get a CD and/or prints made as well without scratching your negatives.
If you start pushing and pulling your color film that's different. However, color print film has tremendous latitude. If you push or pull 1 stop then you're probably fine developing as normal. With that much flexibility, it's possible to avoid pushes and pulls more than that if you just keep the right film handy.
For B&W, I also recommend shooting either chromogenic and doing as above, or developing your own. It can be very simple. Several of us can go into very specific detail about what you'll need and what to do. Or we can send you to a PDF that says the same thing. But, once again, the former let's us (me) talk more
allan
haagen_dazs
Well-known
sooner said:
i remember attending just ONE darkroom course. It was fun but i forgot most of the stuff.
I remember the teacher tellling us that we have to buy a few type of chemicals.
Are the chemicals costly?
Some of the chemicals can be resued but it also has a certain lifespan (cannot keep too long or used too many time in developing the silver halide).. is that true?
what do you mean by "enlarger route"
is it the part where one puts the negative under a lamp, shine the light through the negative onto a piece of photographic paper?
(and you can even change the aperture of the light hole etc)
sorry i cannot remember coz its been a while back since that darkroom class.
btw is there anything pretty/nice/scenic/happening to do in NJ?
i just relocated and have been here for 3 mths ...
haagen_dazs
Well-known
thanks alot !jcline said:
was wondering how much start up cost is required to set up a simple darkroom to develop the negatives?
kaiyen
local man of mystery
haagen_dazs said:
they certainly don't have to be. All you _really_ need is developer and fixer. The rest you can do with plain water. A bottle of HC-110 concentrate is $13 and is enough for like dozens of rolls. And the Ilford Rapid fixer I get is $9 and you get 5 liters out of it, each of which is good for 30+ rolls.
Yes, that is true. "Working" developer is what you mix up and actually pour into the tank with the film. It's usually diluted from the "stock" solution. Sometimes the dilution is 1 part developer to 1 part water (1+1), sometimes it's 1+100, etc. The working developer should be used once then tossed. The concentrate or stock lasts longer, though how long depends on what developer and storage conditions (full bottles, half-empty,l etc).
Fixer can be reused until it's saturated. That's about 30 rolls per liter.
Basically, yes. The alternative is to scan your film.
allan
kaiyen
local man of mystery
haagen_dazs said:
Just to develop?
Changing bag - $25
You need this if you can't set up an actual dark, dark room. No light at all. YOu just throw everything in this bag, zip it up, and stick your hands in. It's what I use.
2 reel developing tank with reels - $30
Developer - $15 or so
Fixer - $10 or so
Beakers and graduates - $25
Funnel - $5
Thermometer - $10
I think that might be all you have to have. Did I forget anything? Anyone?
it's not much.
allan
haagen_dazs
Well-known
kaiyen said:
All those stuff sound familiar...
never heard of a changing bag.. interesting.. guess the workshop i attended was in a dark room
why do you need a thermomenter??
haagen_dazs
Well-known
just to verify since it wasnt stated explicitlykaiyen said:
is HC110 = developer?
when you say you can get 5 liters out of the fixer, is the fixer also a concentrate?
that means your fixer can be used for 150 rolls ??
but i remember that even though the chemicals can be used for so many rolls, it also has a time span right? (i am not sure)
that means if you used 1 liter to develop 1 roll only and not use the liquid for 1 year, i doubt its usable..
just checking with you. thanks for your good advice.
Last edited:
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
kaiyen said:
Good list, Allan. I can add some details:
Depending on which developer you use you may need some storage bottles (1 liter or 1 gallon), maybe a stirring/mixing wand, a timer (a watch works fine), drying setup: string & clips (clothes pins), Photo-flo, a couple of rags.
peterc
Heretic
Apart from the changing bag and something to keep track of time, here's a shot of all the stuff I use (and need) to develop B&W films.
There are tanks and reels (3 reels and a single and double tank), two graduates (250 and 300ml) , two 1L measuring cups, thermometer, three developers (Rodinal, Rollie LC and ID-11), Iford Rapid fixer, and clips for hanging the film to dry. I also have 50ml and 30ml cups (available from drug stores) for measuring chemicals and a 1ml dropper for measuring small amounts of Rodinal.
Peter
There are tanks and reels (3 reels and a single and double tank), two graduates (250 and 300ml) , two 1L measuring cups, thermometer, three developers (Rodinal, Rollie LC and ID-11), Iford Rapid fixer, and clips for hanging the film to dry. I also have 50ml and 30ml cups (available from drug stores) for measuring chemicals and a 1ml dropper for measuring small amounts of Rodinal.
Peter
Attachments
markinlondon
Elmar user
haagen_dazs said:
That's yes and yes to those questions.
Fixer is concentrated, I usually mix up a litre of working strength (1+4 for Ilford Rapid Fixer) at a time (there's a storage bottle you'll need). Test the fixer by dropping a piece of film into it. Agitate continuously and time how long the film takes to clear. Test every few rolls, the working fixer is exhausted when your film takes twice as long to clear. Then throw it out and make a new batch. I usually get 15-20 rolls of FP4 or HP5 from a litre this way, less for Delta films, so that's up to 100 rolls per litre of concentrate.
Developer certainly has a shelf life. check the manufacturer's guidlines for liquid concentrates. If using powders store the stock solution in FULL bottles (yes, more bottles). coloured glass or PET (fizzy drink bottles) are usually best. ID-11/D76 usually lasts about 6 months this way. DO NOT store working strength developer made from liquid concentrates, it has a life of a few hours at best. Fixer and stop bath are acidic, I've never had the concentrates go off before finishing the bottle.
Mark
titrisol
Bottom Feeder
Or you can get this kit from Freestyle:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1462
It has everyting you need except for chemistry and an enlarger
Re Chemistry:
HC110 is a Developer
Fixer is generally a concentrated, and it can be reused
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1462
It has everyting you need except for chemistry and an enlarger
Re Chemistry:
HC110 is a Developer
Fixer is generally a concentrated, and it can be reused
kaiyen said:
kaiyen
local man of mystery
At that price, I'd start with the kit that Pablo (titrisol) suggested at Freestyle. Otherwise, if you're not enlarging, you don't need the trays anyway.
You need the thermometer because you need at least the developer at the right temperature (usually 20C/68F, but if it's a little high or low you can compensate with time). You need the other chemicals at least kinda close to that, though it's not as exacting.
As others have pointed out, you do need a few more items. I didn't include the Photo-flo that Ray mentioned because you don't _need_ it. I use it, but you don't have to. It's a "wetting agent" that helps the water drip off better during drying.
With developer, you have stock or concentrated strength, and you have working solution. With powder, the stock is what you mix up initially. With concentrate, it's what you get in the bottle. These all have a shelf life, but it varies. As mentioned, D76, the most common developer, can go about 6 months in a full bottle. Rodinal can go like 8 years with only slight decrease in performance, even in a half ful bottle.
When you dilute the stock or concentrate, you now have a working solution. A working solution lasts just a few hours before oxidation kills it. Use it once, then toss it.
Ilford used to have a great PDF but I can't find it on their new site. You can also try my site:
http://photos.kaiyen.com/pages/chemicals.html
allan
You need the thermometer because you need at least the developer at the right temperature (usually 20C/68F, but if it's a little high or low you can compensate with time). You need the other chemicals at least kinda close to that, though it's not as exacting.
As others have pointed out, you do need a few more items. I didn't include the Photo-flo that Ray mentioned because you don't _need_ it. I use it, but you don't have to. It's a "wetting agent" that helps the water drip off better during drying.
With developer, you have stock or concentrated strength, and you have working solution. With powder, the stock is what you mix up initially. With concentrate, it's what you get in the bottle. These all have a shelf life, but it varies. As mentioned, D76, the most common developer, can go about 6 months in a full bottle. Rodinal can go like 8 years with only slight decrease in performance, even in a half ful bottle.
When you dilute the stock or concentrate, you now have a working solution. A working solution lasts just a few hours before oxidation kills it. Use it once, then toss it.
Ilford used to have a great PDF but I can't find it on their new site. You can also try my site:
http://photos.kaiyen.com/pages/chemicals.html
allan
haagen_dazs
Well-known
guess i havent got my question answered about why is a thermometer needed...
is developing pretty temperature sensitive?
oh what about developing negative film for colour film (not including the enlarger step)
is it the same way and cost to develop the negatives (for colour?)
is developing pretty temperature sensitive?
oh what about developing negative film for colour film (not including the enlarger step)
is it the same way and cost to develop the negatives (for colour?)
kaiyen
local man of mystery
Mark,
Clearly we crossed paths on our last posts. Development is temperature sensitive, yes. Higher temperature increases developer activity, which means it develops faster. So you reduce time. But you need to know by how much to reduce the time...a mercury thermometer is a must, in my opinion.
Color development is an entirely different story, and not as easy. You have a much bigger issue with temperature control. And, to be honest, at $5 for development and a photoCD, it's not worth my time to do it. I don't get the control since C41 is a standard process, so I don't feel the need to bother.
allan
Clearly we crossed paths on our last posts. Development is temperature sensitive, yes. Higher temperature increases developer activity, which means it develops faster. So you reduce time. But you need to know by how much to reduce the time...a mercury thermometer is a must, in my opinion.
Color development is an entirely different story, and not as easy. You have a much bigger issue with temperature control. And, to be honest, at $5 for development and a photoCD, it's not worth my time to do it. I don't get the control since C41 is a standard process, so I don't feel the need to bother.
allan
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
kaiyen said:
I agree you don't NEED it, but I was anticipating another thread like, "HELP! Spots on Negs!"
Also, you're not done developing until the negs are dry (at least that was the attitude, my wife gave me when I used to use the shower for hanging negs), so don't neglect the accessories required for that end of things.
Otherwise you'll be walking around your house with a strip of wet negs wondering what to do with them. .
haagen_dazs
Well-known
this is one heck of an awesome forum.
you guys are the best.
so helpful (believe me it is SOOOOOOOOO helpful)
funny point.. i started this thread but when you look at the thread started in the subforum, its "sooner"
this is wierd
you guys are the best.
so helpful (believe me it is SOOOOOOOOO helpful)
funny point.. i started this thread but when you look at the thread started in the subforum, its "sooner"
this is wierd