gcrawfo2
Member
Hey guys,
I've recently just picked up a Bessa R2A and a Heliar 50mm Classic, and am wanting to develop my own film. I've been lurking around the forums for a couple of months now and have come to realize that you guys really do know your stuff. I originally thought that taking my film to a local Walgreen's and getting it developed and put on a CD would be enough for me, but after seeing the galleries around here, I'm inspired to want to learn how to process and develop my own 35mm film.
Like most of my hobbies I pick up, I usually just order and book and start from scratch. I bought "The Film Developing Cookbook" by Anchell. However, after reading through the first couple of chapters I felt like I needed more general advice to get going, as opposed to the very fine specifics I was reading about. Which brings me to my question...
I was wondering if you guys could suggest some general advice a list of crucial supplies that I should pick up to get me introduced to film developing. I will strictly start out with black and white photography in the 35mm format, and tend to not take too many portraits of people.
If I can supply you with any more information, please let me know.
I've recently just picked up a Bessa R2A and a Heliar 50mm Classic, and am wanting to develop my own film. I've been lurking around the forums for a couple of months now and have come to realize that you guys really do know your stuff. I originally thought that taking my film to a local Walgreen's and getting it developed and put on a CD would be enough for me, but after seeing the galleries around here, I'm inspired to want to learn how to process and develop my own 35mm film.
Like most of my hobbies I pick up, I usually just order and book and start from scratch. I bought "The Film Developing Cookbook" by Anchell. However, after reading through the first couple of chapters I felt like I needed more general advice to get going, as opposed to the very fine specifics I was reading about. Which brings me to my question...
I was wondering if you guys could suggest some general advice a list of crucial supplies that I should pick up to get me introduced to film developing. I will strictly start out with black and white photography in the 35mm format, and tend to not take too many portraits of people.
If I can supply you with any more information, please let me know.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Welcome!
I started developing my own B&W just last year, after ~30 years of commercially developed color neg and slide photography. My list of must-haves:
Changing bag or completely dark room or closet
Daylight tank and reel -- I use a Paterson tank and automatic reel, can't seem to get the hang of the stainless variety
Graduated jugs -- the cheap plastic grocery store kind for me (absolute precision is less important than repeatability from batch to batch)
Storage containers for developer and fixer -- cider jugs will work
Another bottle for stop bath (can be diluted white vinegar)
Nitrile gloves
Clock or timer with seconds display
Size of containers depends on the developer and fixer you'll be using. You'll need gallon size if you buy powdered Kodak chemicals, for example. Don't forget a catching bowl and second container for your used fixer. I reuse my fixer only once, because I find it too much of a hassle to keep dust out of it, but you can get a lot more uses out of it if you want.
A thermometer is desirable, but not essential. You can prepare your solutions, including stop bath and water for the first few rinses, ahead of time and let them come to room temperature. (Adjust development time if your home is cooler or warmer than the standard 20 deg C.)
I started developing my own B&W just last year, after ~30 years of commercially developed color neg and slide photography. My list of must-haves:
Changing bag or completely dark room or closet
Daylight tank and reel -- I use a Paterson tank and automatic reel, can't seem to get the hang of the stainless variety
Graduated jugs -- the cheap plastic grocery store kind for me (absolute precision is less important than repeatability from batch to batch)
Storage containers for developer and fixer -- cider jugs will work
Another bottle for stop bath (can be diluted white vinegar)
Nitrile gloves
Clock or timer with seconds display
Size of containers depends on the developer and fixer you'll be using. You'll need gallon size if you buy powdered Kodak chemicals, for example. Don't forget a catching bowl and second container for your used fixer. I reuse my fixer only once, because I find it too much of a hassle to keep dust out of it, but you can get a lot more uses out of it if you want.
A thermometer is desirable, but not essential. You can prepare your solutions, including stop bath and water for the first few rinses, ahead of time and let them come to room temperature. (Adjust development time if your home is cooler or warmer than the standard 20 deg C.)
douwe
Jazz and Silver
Stuff you need...
Stuff you need...
Ok! I'll give you a head start by sharing my process with you. Please buy&burn plenty of film so that kodak, ilford, and fuji will be in business for just a bit longer
Things you will need.
Stuff you need...
Ok! I'll give you a head start by sharing my process with you. Please buy&burn plenty of film so that kodak, ilford, and fuji will be in business for just a bit longer
Things you will need.
- Developer. Use a forgiving one to start out with like D76.
- Stop. You can buy stop bath, I just mix 7 gram of acetic acid crystals in 1 Liter of water. use once only.
- Fix. I use Ilford rapid fixer. make sure that if you use it more than once (you can and should for environmental purposes) that it is absolutely clear. Filter out particles is you must.
- dedicated bottles to keep the dev, stop, and fix. Make sure they're squeezable so you can close them with no air inside. Oxidation ruins your fluids. Keep fluids in there own containers. Wide openings would be nice. It makes pouring the fluids easier.
- Use will need 3 beekers to measure fluids. use each beeker for its dedicated bath (dev, stop, fix)
- A thermometer to check the temperature of your fluids.
- You will need scissors to cut your film.
- you will need a bottle opener to open the film canister. I like the one in my swiss army knife.
- You will need a dark place. A proper changing bag (That's what I do), or a proper darkroom. It needs to be absolutely dark. Film is much more sensitive than paper.
- You will need a developing tank. I use a paterson super system 4, because it doesn't leak when I invert it, and it pours nicely. There quite cheap. It takes 330mm of fluid per 35mm roll. Get one that fits at least 3 rolls of 35mm, you want to develop rolls simutaneously. (But only when you got the hang of it)
- Make sure you have a clock when you develop. I actually mark the minutes on a piece of paper, to make sure I don't loose track of time.
- a piece of tubing you can fix on the tap is useful for washing the film.
- Deionized water for a final rinse. I use it once without photo-flo, and once with. making for at leasts 660ml per roll of 35mm.
- Photo-flo, it makes the water run of the film, so the film dries without stains.
- A shower cabin to dry the film. (2-3h)
- special clamps to hang the film.
- sleeves to store the dry film.
tbm
Established
Two days ago I bought a roll of Walgreens' 200-speed color print film and captured images with it and my M6 TTL and 50mm Elmari and 90mm Summicron lenses indoors with my Metz flash unit, gave the film to the same Walgreens' film processing machine handler, and most of the images sucked! I will never give any color film to other than a professional lab again! Meanwhile, I still develop and print all of my black and white film and it is truly a joy in getting gorgeous prints in my darkroom!
douwe
Jazz and Silver
What you do next:
- Mark your beekers and bottles with dev, stop, and fix.
- Mix the fluids according to the instruction sheet.
- Make sure the temperature of the fluids is right. If the temperature is of, but the bottles in the sink, and fill the sink with hot or cold water.
- Put your film canister, scissors, bottle opener, development tank with all components in the changing bag. close it and stick your arms in the sleeves. (work in a semi dark place.)
- Dent the canister wall with your thumb. Do this near the bottom (where the axle does not stick out) and next to where the film normally protrudes. Take the bottle opener and open the canister at the dent you made.
- take the film out, and cut the leader at the bend. Cut the corners so that there rounded. This makes it easier to load the film on the real.
- Feel where the opening of the reel is and stick the film in, bit by bit. If it doesn't want to go any further, use the autoload feature until only the plastic axle is left. Cut the axle away from the film, and completely load the film on the reel.
- Stick the reel on the axle of the tank, and properly close the tank. You can now open the changing bag and take the tank out. It's light trap keeps your film safe. Just don't work in bright light.
- Now you can really develop your film. Check that the fluids are the right temperature. The temperature of the developer is most important. Pour the developer in. Agitate according to manufacturers instructions. After your time is up, your pour the developer back into its bottle, and pour in the stop bath. Agitate for 30 seconds, than discard the stop bath. pour in the fix and agitate continuously for however long you need to fix. (depends on freshness and type of fix) After you're done, pour the fix back into its bottle, and wash the film with lukewarm water for 15 minutes. Fix the tubing on the tap, and stick the other end into the hollow axle of the tank...
- Once its been in running water for 15 minutes, open the tank and rinse the film once with deionized water.
- Mix another batch of deionized water with some photo-flo. A few drops will do. Pour the photo-flo water in the tank and leave it for a minute or so.
- Take out the reels, open them up. Take the film out and hang the film to dry in the shower cabin with the clamps. Hang it in such a way that the leader (the black end) is hanging down. This will stay wet for longest. Do not try to wipe the water of the film. That's where the photo-flo comes in. You can only scratch it!
- Wait for 2-3h to dry. The emulsion is easily damaged when wet. You can touch the emulsion of the leader to check. if it's no longer sticky and feels rough, your film is dry.
- The shower cabin shouldn't be too hot, and can't be too dry, or your film will curl up more than you want.
- Once dry, cut your film and store in sleeves. Put the sleeves underneath a heavy book if the film is a bit curly. A day or so later it will be flat.
jmkelly
rangefinder user
Freestyle (google them) has all the development stuff you need; good prices and reasonable shipping too. I also buy some supplies form digitaltruth. Best of luck and have fun.
aeolist
Member
roger and frances have a very very good module on the subject at http://rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps how process 35-120.html
what I do:
1. Put tap water in the tank, stir vigorously for a minute, and let it sit.
2. Put tap water in bucket, about a gallon, checking the temperature so it's 20 celcius.
3. Change the water in the tank (it should come out colored), now adding in the 20 celcius water. Stir a bit and set aside.
4. Mix developer while the water is still the right temperature. Empty tank and in goes the dev.
5. No stop bath for me, just 2 water changes with a bit of stirring each time (say 5 to 10 times).
6. Fixer, room temperature.
7. I mix a big glass of water (my tank's volume is 300ml and the glass about 400) with 2 tablespoons of vinegar.
7. Ilford wash method (3 water changes, with 5-10-20 stirs), take the top part of the dev tank off and in goes the vinegary water. I also add a couple of drops of photo-flo, not too sure it works. I think the vinegar prevents water stains better.
8. hang the film with regular clothes clamps/clips from a clothes hanger. 2 at the top, 2 at the bottom to straigthen the film. Find a suitable place to hang it from, needs to be 2 meters off the floor. Should be good and dry in an hour or two.
You can use syringes instead of beakers for better accuracy. Nothing gives me the shivers more than "specialized" clamps and "specialized" beakers etc etc. If you get any water stains (white salty stuff), rub it with a bit of alcohol.
what I do:
1. Put tap water in the tank, stir vigorously for a minute, and let it sit.
2. Put tap water in bucket, about a gallon, checking the temperature so it's 20 celcius.
3. Change the water in the tank (it should come out colored), now adding in the 20 celcius water. Stir a bit and set aside.
4. Mix developer while the water is still the right temperature. Empty tank and in goes the dev.
5. No stop bath for me, just 2 water changes with a bit of stirring each time (say 5 to 10 times).
6. Fixer, room temperature.
7. I mix a big glass of water (my tank's volume is 300ml and the glass about 400) with 2 tablespoons of vinegar.
7. Ilford wash method (3 water changes, with 5-10-20 stirs), take the top part of the dev tank off and in goes the vinegary water. I also add a couple of drops of photo-flo, not too sure it works. I think the vinegar prevents water stains better.
8. hang the film with regular clothes clamps/clips from a clothes hanger. 2 at the top, 2 at the bottom to straigthen the film. Find a suitable place to hang it from, needs to be 2 meters off the floor. Should be good and dry in an hour or two.
You can use syringes instead of beakers for better accuracy. Nothing gives me the shivers more than "specialized" clamps and "specialized" beakers etc etc. If you get any water stains (white salty stuff), rub it with a bit of alcohol.
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
The Massive Dev Chart has all sorts of information on different films and developer times. Also, I just adjust based on temperature, rather than ensuring a constant temperature. I have very good results using the iPhone App version of the Massive Dev Chart.
Also, have a look at Kodak's Tech pub J-78. There is a pretty good discussion of small tank processing in these technical publications.
As for what you absolutely need:
Tank + reel
Jug for dev, another for fix (and you need dev and fix of your choice. Get a rapid fixer. You will thank me.)
Measuring device larger than your tank. Get three of them.
Thermometer
Funnel for fix to return it to the jug.
Dark bag or dark room.
You can use water for stop.
If I am using D76, I mix the stock from the jug 1:1 with water and use it once. If I am using Rodinal, I mix it 1 part to 50 or 100 parts water and use it once. (you do not need a jug if you are using rodinal).
Fix is reused, but should be tested. See the rogerandfrances link posted earlier.
I load my film in a dark bag, even though I have a darkroom. I just prefer to watch movies while I am doing it.
I believe that freestyle has kits for basic film developing. So does ebay... as people sell off their darkroom gear. I like stainless, but what do I know. I especially like Hewes Heavy duty reels.
Also, have a look at Kodak's Tech pub J-78. There is a pretty good discussion of small tank processing in these technical publications.
As for what you absolutely need:
Tank + reel
Jug for dev, another for fix (and you need dev and fix of your choice. Get a rapid fixer. You will thank me.)
Measuring device larger than your tank. Get three of them.
Thermometer
Funnel for fix to return it to the jug.
Dark bag or dark room.
You can use water for stop.
If I am using D76, I mix the stock from the jug 1:1 with water and use it once. If I am using Rodinal, I mix it 1 part to 50 or 100 parts water and use it once. (you do not need a jug if you are using rodinal).
Fix is reused, but should be tested. See the rogerandfrances link posted earlier.
I load my film in a dark bag, even though I have a darkroom. I just prefer to watch movies while I am doing it.
I believe that freestyle has kits for basic film developing. So does ebay... as people sell off their darkroom gear. I like stainless, but what do I know. I especially like Hewes Heavy duty reels.
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batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
gcrawfo2
Member
I appreciate this so much guys! I've been reviewing all the responses that have come through, and benefited from each one -- even the Walgreen's one Batterytype. I've had some bad experiences at Walgreens, and I found his comment supportive of my efforts to break the barrier of developing my own negatives. But again, thank you so much.
After reading through all the post, here's a couple of things I'm still not sure about...
1) I'm a little sketchy on how many containers I'm supposed to have; One for developer, one for the optional stop bath, and one for the fixer. And should they all be compressible to keep chemical oxidation of the solids/liquids from oxidizing?
2) What size beakers would you suggest getting, and how many?
Also, I've spent a majority of the day researching prices at online retailers figuring out approximate prices to get my foot in the door. And I think I've come to the conclusion that if it comes down to it I'll buy new, but I'm going to scope out the used darkroom equipment market first and see if I can land a decent deal.
If any of you guys know anybody wanting to sale their darkroom equipment, let me know. Else I'll try my shot at the local classifieds and the bay.
After reading through all the post, here's a couple of things I'm still not sure about...
1) I'm a little sketchy on how many containers I'm supposed to have; One for developer, one for the optional stop bath, and one for the fixer. And should they all be compressible to keep chemical oxidation of the solids/liquids from oxidizing?
2) What size beakers would you suggest getting, and how many?
Also, I've spent a majority of the day researching prices at online retailers figuring out approximate prices to get my foot in the door. And I think I've come to the conclusion that if it comes down to it I'll buy new, but I'm going to scope out the used darkroom equipment market first and see if I can land a decent deal.
If any of you guys know anybody wanting to sale their darkroom equipment, let me know. Else I'll try my shot at the local classifieds and the bay.
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
Typically in stainless steel, the sizes are 1 roll 35mm = 250 ml. I would suggest starting with a two roll tank, but that is because it lets you process 120 as well as 35mm.
So, for sizes, I would get 1 liter graduates, but you can get by on half liter, for measuring the three chemicals. (So: 3 x 1 liter graduates). You can use 2 cup measuring cups, but make sure you keep them out of the kitchen, and be sure you use the same one for the same chemicals (sharpie helps here). Also, it helps to have metric.
Also get a big water pitcher like they use in restaurants. You can use that in the kitchen, it just has have only water in it.
If your water is hard, you are going to need a smaller jug for mixing distilled water and photoflo. (it helps prevent spots. there are other brands of wash aid). This one is not critical, as you won't store anything in it. Just use a drop or two in with the water.
For storage, if you are starting with Kodak powders: at least 2 x 1 gallon jugs or compressible containers. (3 if you are using stop instead of water).
I hope that answered your remaining questions.
For chemicals, I would recommend 1 gallon pack of D76 and 1 (thing) of rapid fixer to start. Decide if you need photoflo, and if you need stop after that.
And remember that this should be fun as well as cheap. The initial investment may seem fairly high, but after about five or ten rolls you will remember that it is much cheaper to do it yourself.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Well, it doesn't belong here, but my experience with C-41 developing at CVS and Walgreens has been overwhelmingly positive. Some other forum members report the same.
The trick seems to be to find one that still does a good amount of film, and get to know the staff. Which can be frustrating as fluctuation is high behind those counters. But if you chat a little, maybe bring in your camera, etc. they are likely to remember you and do a good job. Just don't get drugstore prints. Those are indeed often crap these days. Negs only and scan at home.
Cost: My changing bag was $3.50, new, from KEH. Tank and reel, $1 at a yard sale. Everything else is repurposed kitchen stuff.
gcrawfo2
Member
Thanks Degruyl. That clarified it all. You're the man.
dap
Established
The others have done a pretty good job breaking it down for you. I do have a couple of recommendations for you though. Pick your chemicals and stick to them until you have developed enough enough film to appreciate the differences between other formulations. Starting out you might want to pick a "one shot" friendly developer (you use only enough of the Dev liquid concentrate for one developing batch...HC110 is a good one for this) - that way your developer is always fresh. Choose a rapid fixer. I would also recommend that you try to find products that are offered in concentrated liquid form...these are usually much more convenient for a new darkroom user to handle (and they are more conducive to working in a "one shot" fashion.
Another Developer you might want to consider is Diafine. This stuff lasts forever (my last batch is over a year old and still works fine), it is very forgiving as far as developing temps are concerned, you don't need a stop bath, and it is very easy to get good results with it.
I would also recommend that you pick up David Vestal's book "the craft of photography"...I think it is the best basic B&W darkroom book ever written (and I have read a LOT of them). It is out of print but it is well worth hunting a copy down.
Have fun
Another Developer you might want to consider is Diafine. This stuff lasts forever (my last batch is over a year old and still works fine), it is very forgiving as far as developing temps are concerned, you don't need a stop bath, and it is very easy to get good results with it.
I would also recommend that you pick up David Vestal's book "the craft of photography"...I think it is the best basic B&W darkroom book ever written (and I have read a LOT of them). It is out of print but it is well worth hunting a copy down.
Have fun
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batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
I can't believe we've all forgotten the #1 requirement up until now -- a sympathetic spouse!
Seriously, if you live with someone, don't just assume they'll be fine with the smell, toxicity (perceived more than real, but still), mess and inconvenience. Explain what you're doing and why you need the bathroom / kitchen sink for the next half hour and positively can't answer the door, the phone, look after the baby, walk the dog, stir the chili pot... You get the idea. And clean up afterwards!
Seriously, if you live with someone, don't just assume they'll be fine with the smell, toxicity (perceived more than real, but still), mess and inconvenience. Explain what you're doing and why you need the bathroom / kitchen sink for the next half hour and positively can't answer the door, the phone, look after the baby, walk the dog, stir the chili pot... You get the idea. And clean up afterwards!
not_in_good_order
Well-known
I am also considering getting started with home development of b&w film. I ran across a darkroom kit on Freestyle's website and am wondering if it would be worth buying.
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5054-Arista-Premium-Darkroom-Kit?sc=24100
Other than chemicals and a changing bag, would this kit get me up and running?
Edit to add that I just want to be able to develop 35mm film for scanning at this stage.
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/5054-Arista-Premium-Darkroom-Kit?sc=24100
Other than chemicals and a changing bag, would this kit get me up and running?
Edit to add that I just want to be able to develop 35mm film for scanning at this stage.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Then you don't need this kit. The trays and tongs are only for print developing (or sheet film), and the squeegee does more harm than good (read about the pros and cons in some other threads here).
Really, the only specialized items you need are changing bag and tank with reel. Buy a good size bag. Mine is 16 x 16 inches and that's a little snug even with a one-reel tank.
One more tip: Put the tank in the bag with the lid closed. Only open it after you're done trimming your film. Make sure you retrieve all the trimmed-off bits of film. If you don't find one, I guarantee it's in the tank, grinning and just waiting to mess up your best frame. Better to put the tank back in the bag and shake it out.
Really, the only specialized items you need are changing bag and tank with reel. Buy a good size bag. Mine is 16 x 16 inches and that's a little snug even with a one-reel tank.
One more tip: Put the tank in the bag with the lid closed. Only open it after you're done trimming your film. Make sure you retrieve all the trimmed-off bits of film. If you don't find one, I guarantee it's in the tank, grinning and just waiting to mess up your best frame. Better to put the tank back in the bag and shake it out.
Chris101
summicronia
For the graphically inclined, here's what you need:
