Different Rodinal dilutions--the effects

[J J Kapsberger]

What will be the chief difference between developing film in a 1+25 dilution and a 1+50 dilution given the same film?

 

[Goldorak]

Less the dilution, the better the contrast and bigger the grain. That's a rule of thumb but I have never used rodinal so maybe this particular developer behaves differently, which I doubt.

 

[J J Kapsberger]

If you've never used it, why are you responding to my question? Simply to pollute my thread?

 

[Goldorak]

I also recommend a good print washer if you intend to become a good printer.
PM me for more infos!

 

[J J Kapsberger]

OK, if ever I want to become a good printer I'll consult in you.

 

[nikon_sam]

If you've never used it, why are you responding to my question? Simply to pollute my thread?

Nice way to respond to someone trying to help...key word being "Trying"!!!
Besides I thought his reply was helpful...but then who am I???

Maybe a notice in your original post..."Don't even think of replying unless you know the correct answer to my question" would be helpful to others so, in trying, they don't get their heads bit off...

One thing you could do is develop two rolls of film, one in each dilution and then compare...but then maybe you already thought of this and now I'm just wasting your time...

Sorry in advance...no reply needed...Have a Nice Day!!!

 

[J J Kapsberger]

Don't worry. I like you. But this Goldorak guy....

 

[Goldorak]

I give him the benefit of the doubt. Indicator stop bath is very harmful for the brain, especially in the morning. Even the Pope would lose his temper after inhaling indicator stop bath.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I use Rodinal all the time, usually at the 1+50 dilution. I have used Rodinal since I was 15 years old, when my high school photo teach introduced it to me. The more you dilute Rodinal, the more sloped the shoulder region of the film's curve becomes. Overall contrast won't lessen, if you use the correct dev. times, but the light tones will have less contrast within that range of tones. I mention that because highly diluted Rodinal has a reputation as a "low contrast" developer. It isn't overall if you develop long enough, but it does tame very contrasty bright tones. I have not seen much difference in grain with different dilutions with the films I use (Fuji Acros and Tmax 100 are my Rodinal faves), though it does look a little sharper at higher dilutions. I lke 1+50 for most things because it gives a good balance of sharpness, gradation, and manageable dev. times for most work. The 1+25 dilution gives very short times for most films, around 5 minutes, and I like longer times because it gives more consistant, even results for me. 1+50 gives 10-14 minute times with most films, which is fine for me. at 1+100 times are often over 20 minutes.

35mm Ilford Pan-F in Rodinal 1+50. A great combo.

120 size Acros 100 in Rodinal 1+50

120 Ilford FP-4 in Rodinal 1+50

 

[J J Kapsberger]

I give him the benefit of the doubt. Indicator stop bath is very harmful for the brain, especially in the morning. Even the Pope would lose his temper after inhaling indicator stop bath.

You see what I mean?

 

[adietrich]

The answer to pollution is dilution

The answer to pollution is dilution

If you've never used it, why are you responding to my question? Simply to pollute my thread?

Dear JJ,

The answer was absolutely correct and your aggressive reply was uncalled for.

May I suggest you show a bit respect for your fellow forum members that try to be helpful, be more generous with the use of the the words "please" and "thank you", and do some research before you ask questions of which the answers are known to most of us.

-a

 

[J J Kapsberger]

Thanks, Chriscrawfordphoto. That's my kind of tonality. Plenty of bight and singing highlights.

The more you dilute Rodinal, the more sloped the shoulder region of the film's curve becomes.

I.e., more gradual, less sudden, tonal separation in the highlights?

...but the light tones will have less contrast within that range of tones. I mention that because highly diluted Rodinal has a reputation as a "low contrast" developer. It isn't overall if you develop long enough, but it does tame very contrasty bright tones.

That pretty well answers things for me. Thanks.

 

[J J Kapsberger]

Dear JJ,

The answer was absolutely correct and your aggressive reply was uncalled for.

May I suggest you show a bit respect for your fellow forum members that try to be helpful, be more generous with the use of the the words "please" and "thank you", and do some research before you ask questions of which the answers are known to most of us.

-a

Oh, JJK's the bad buy and Goldorak's the good guy! I see! When did this universe turn upside down?

 

[Nh3]

For Tri-X:

The higher the contrast, the lower the dilution and very gentle agitation.

For low contrast use high dilution with +1 or +2 and normal agitation.


Start from there and experiment.

 

[Trius]

What Chris said. I find that little or no agitation (stand dev) helps to produce better grain structure. Not necessarily an order of magnitude smaller, but better behaved/shaped, if that makes any sense. I have also found that -- for me and my conditions -- 20minutes for Rodinal 1:100 works for nearly all films: TX, TMY-2, Pan F+ and, IIRC, TMX. Magic!

 

[charjohncarter]

Great answer Chris, thanks. I have read all this before but never in an understandable manner. And all in one paragraph.

I just printed it, I hope you don't mind; only for personal use.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Thanks, Chriscrawfordphoto. That's my kind of tonality. Plenty of bight and singing highlights.



I.e., more gradual, less sudden, tonal separation in the highlights?



That pretty well answers things for me. Thanks.

Glad I could help. I have found that using higher dilutions makes very bright highlights less likely to go totally white even when developed to give normal midtone contrast. On the other hand, when done in most lighting conditions, it can make the light tones look too flat for my taste. I rarely use anything but 1+50. In contrasty light, I develop 30% less and give one more stop exposure, which tames contrast nicely (that's an N-1 in zone system terms). If it is really contrasty then i'll go 1+75, which works well for that. I've only used 1+100 a few times.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Great answer Chris, thanks. I have read all this before but never in an understandable manner. And all in one paragraph.

I just printed it, I hope you don't mind; only for personal use.

No problem. I wouldn't even care if you passed it out to students if you were a teacher. None of the writing I do on the forum is something I would get psycho about someone using unless someone did something like collecting all my forum wisdom and publishing a book that made them tons of $$$ (my photos I don't want people printing since selling them does make a good part of my little income for me).

 

[ZorkiKat]

I've not used Rodinal in about 3 years, but instead a substitute virtual-equivalent, "paRodinal". It's a home brew. And I hope not to pollute the thread

In addition to the earlier statements, diluting Rodinal is usually done for compensating effects. The weakened developer concentration causes lower and slower reactions (ie, development of exposed silver halides). With gentle or limited agitation - a requisite for achieving the famed Rodinal effects- the developer quickly loses activity in the well exposed areas due to exhaustion. No or little agitation means that no fresh, unused developing agent is carried over to these areas to commence more activity.

On the other hand, in the less-exposed areas, where less actitivity happens, the developing agent exhausts more slowly and activity continues, letting the less exposed areas develop to a greater degree. In short, the combined low activity in the highlights and extended activity in the shadows make both areas 'catch' up with each other, thus the 'compensating' effect.

The same local exhaustion also brings about the enhanced sharpness associated with high dilution Rodinal. The edge areas between the exposed and nonexposed areas become more pronounced to create this impression of extra sharpness in the contours. This also makes the individual grains more obvious- they're not made any larger, but since one grain is clearly outlined against the equally-outlined others, there is also an impression of increased grain.

Rodinal doesn't really increase grain, it just shows it honestly. Fine-grain types diffuse the grain edges and make where one grain ends and another begins less obvious.

Note too, that high dilution Rodinal may not bring out the full published emulsion speed, particularly with High Speed Films. For instance, ISO 400 Fuji Neopan will likely be EI 320 or 250 if developed 'normally' at 1+100.

Lower dilutions, eg, 1+20 or 1+25 may allow full Speed Utilisation, but at the cost of heightened contrast (not really so, if the development times are kept at the necessary minimum). This is what I use when I feel that an extra snap in development will improve what I think to be films starved of some exposure.

Ilford Pan F, 1+50 paRodinal (homebrew, paracetamol-based formula)

Ilford Pan F, 1+100 paRodinal -note compensating effects. Details outside the window can still be seen, despite considerable differences in brightness between interior lighting and outdoor noonday sun.

 

[charjohncarter]

That is another feature of Rodinal: loss of film speed. But in my case it has never bothered me.

Rodinal 50+1, TriX at 250: