Different Rodinal dilutions--the effects

[mh2000]

Ok, maybe I'll duck after saying this, but I never saw a real difference between Rodinal at 1:25 and 1:50, so I just went with 1:50 and tweaked my aggitation... but the two cannot be completely separated... so you have to include your aggitation method... that all said, I've jumped on the stand devlopment bandwagon and take a full stop push from 5+500ml and 1 hour stand development time for Tmax films. If you haven't tried this yet, consider giving it a go.

 

[charjohncarter]

Don't duck, time, temp, agitation, I think ought to be given with every personal development method. I used to do that but I have gotten lazy. When I did 1+100 semi-stand for a hour, my negatives were a little dark so maybe some push would be good. That was Rodinal 1+100, 1 hour, 30 seconds agitation to start, then two inversions every twenty minutes, at 68 degrees.

This is not my thread but I always used semi-stand because I was afraid of this:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/rodinal/discuss/72157611641088607/

 

[MCTuomey]

chris, john, and all

i'm now making the move from hc-110 to rodinal. one question (well two, actually). could you descibe in a bit more detail what "agitation" and "inversion" methods you use? it would be helpful so that i might avoid the rodinal pitfall of too much agitation. tia.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I probably agitate too much by the standards of many here. The thing is, every single time I have tried gentle agitation or reduced agitation techniques, I have gotten extremely uneven development. This isn't just with Rodinal, but with D76 and Tmax Developer too.

My method: I fill the tank then hit it hard on the palm of my hand 4 or 5 times to dislodge air bubbles. Then I begin agitating by quickly inverting the tank then quickly turning it back then hitting it twice on my hand...keep repeating for the first 30 seconds. Every 30 seconds thereafter, quickly invert and quickly turn back up twice, then hit 3-4 times on my hand to dislodge air bubbles. I get good tonality and the grain is still very fine with fine grain films I use (Tmax 100, Fuji Acros, Ilford FP-4).

 

[Tom A]

I follow the same procedure for every developer. Initial agitation is 30 sec with vigerous shaking and then a couple of sharp tap against the edge of the sink to dislodge airbubbles (that's why my Paterson tanks all are chipped at the bottom!). After that, two inversions every 60 sec, followed by a tap against the sink edge. Also when I grab the tank for the two inversions, I twist it about a half turn.
If you are using a 1000 ml tank (Paterson 3 reel or Nikkor stainless) I recommend three inversions/60 sec instead of two.

 

[Svitantti]

Actually I dont quite agree with what Goldorak said. The dilution cannot determine the contrast, because there are many other things that also have effect on it (temperature, agitation, developing time).

Rodinal is a high acuntance developer especially when diluted. The more you dilute, the longer the developing time will be normally. If you dont agitate much more, you will get more acuntance ("edge sharpness") when you dilute Rodinal. The grain will also stand out better.

Also if you dilute a developer and agitate relatively rarely, you will get a compensating effect for the tones as was probably said before. Highlights will not blow out so easily, so the shadow detail will (at least relatively) be better.

Rodinal is also often said to be one of the rare developers, where 1+25 or stronger developer will actually make the grain look kind of big too. The grain will be blurred but not smaller. This is mostly hear-say, but I kind of think I noticed this kind of action when I was a beginner and developed a Delta 3200 in 1+25 solution.

Almost everywhere that I read, 1+50 or milder dilution is recommended for Rodinal. For some films (APX?), the times get quite long thoug...

I use Rodinal for most or all films slower than 400 ASA and sometimes for faster films too. Usually for fast films I use Xtol for better shadow detail and film speed and more compensating development and a bit more "sophisticated" grain (I wouldn't say "fine" and I'm not allergic to grain and I also dilute Xtol so it wont blur the grain too much).

 

[MCTuomey]

thanks to chris & tom, that's very clear

 

[charjohncarter]

Like Tom, I do it the same every time except those rare times I do semi stand or what Ansel called Compensating Development. I initially agitate for 30 seconds then I agitate for 10 seconds (3 inversions) on the minute until time is completed. I use an inversion where I 180 the tank so the top is in my right hand and as I upright the tank I twist it with my left probably not a half turn but close. With either HC-110 or Rodinal I have not had any problems with uneven development.

 

[charjohncarter]

Hey Pixtu, I didn't mention that I always have slosh, too.

 

[chris91387]

oh man, now i'm really confused. i thought i read somewhere that the longer development times resulted in tighter/sharper grain. or maybe it was the higher dilution.

i'm planning on a little test in the next month or so. i was thinking of shooting 3 identical rolls of tri-x (my film of choice) and processing at 1:25 or 1:50 (to suggested specs on box), 1:100 stand development for an hour and 1:200 stand development for 2 hours.

if i still had my 'blad i'd use 3 different fllm backs but since it's long gone i'll just have to use 3 rolls and try hard not to lose the leader in the canister. my thought is to shoot a macbeth color chart, a high contrast scene, a low contrast scene and maybe a city-night scene just for fun. i'll try and note ev values (spot meter) for each setup as well as exposure info.

anyone think i should try semi-stand instead? any other thoughts?

i'll be more than happy to post my results.

here's to a great 2009....

- chris

 

[Pherdinand]

does paracetamol based rodinal also give a headache?🙂

sorry, just polluting the forum, here. And reading the answers for my own good.

 

[snip]

does paracetamol based rodinal also give a headache?🙂

sorry, just polluting the forum, here. And reading the answers for my own good.

Yes really, where do you get off! 😉

 

[snip]

oh man, now i'm really confused.
if i still had my 'blad i'd use 3 different fllm backs but since it's long gone i'll just have to use 3 rolls and try hard not to lose the leader in the canister. my thought is to shoot a macbeth color chart, a high contrast scene, a low contrast scene and maybe a city-night scene just for fun. i'll try and note ev values (spot meter) for each setup as well as exposure info.



- chris

Your confused?

I'm wondering how you are testing four methods on three films and many scenes on different rolls with the same camera without using interchangeable backs..

Anyway as long as you get it done, I'll be happy to see the results.

//Jan

 

[chris91387]

3 methods:
1:25 or 1:50 (normal agitation as recommended)
this represents what i normally have been doing with tri-x and rodinal
1:100 (stand or semi-stand)
1:200 (stand or semi-stand)

with regards to not having interchangeable backs: just have to rewind the film after each location. i do this all the time between b&w and color films. just put your ear up to the film back and slowly rewind. you can hear when the film releases from the take up spool. before opening the back, write down the number you left off at. when i use that roll again i cover the lens (stop down and set to highest shutter speed) and fire off to a couple images past the number i left off at.

 

[ZorkiKat]

does paracetamol based rodinal also give a headache?🙂

sorry, just polluting the forum, here. And reading the answers for my own good.

Same, same.

Quite happy with paRodinal, and use it exclusively. Lasts long too- the published info that says its only good for "3 months" is quite untrue. I have paRodinal close to 3 years old, half full, and still good.

 

[russianRF]

What difference have you found between paRodinal and the Rodinal currently available through Freestyle?

 

[ZorkiKat]

What difference have you found between paRodinal and the Rodinal currently available through Freestyle?

Nothing easily seen or obvious to be significant. They virtually work the same. The paRodinal I use is different from what's commonly published in the net, but even that formula gives virtually Rodinal negatives.

Aside from that, paRodinal is readily available to us outside America. And costs very little to make.

 

[Peter S]

Charjohncarter,

Liked the tonality of your picture, may I ask development time for the Trix at 250 with Rodinal 1+50 ?

Planning to do my own test this weekend shooting three rolls of Tri-x with identical 200/250/320/400 shots on each roll and then developing the rolls in Rodinal 1+50 for 9/10/11 minutes. I hope that that will give me a rough idea of what EI and development time fits me (hybrid workflow) and then go on from there. Maybe I should do 10/11/12 or 9.5/10.5/11.5 minutes ? OP, sorry for - in a way - hijacking this tread, hope you don't mind.

All opinions/experiences are welcome.

 

[charjohncarter]

Charjohncarter,

Liked the tonality of your picture, may I ask development time for the Trix at 250 with Rodinal 1+50 ?

Planning to do my own test this weekend shooting three rolls of Tri-x with identical 200/250/320/400 shots on each roll and then developing the rolls in Rodinal 1+50 for 9/10/11 minutes. I hope that that will give me a rough idea of what EI and development time fits me (hybrid workflow) and then go on from there. Maybe I should do 10/11/12 or 9.5/10.5/11.5 minutes ? OP, sorry for - in a way - hijacking this tread, hope you don't mind.

All opinions/experiences are welcome.

Yes, TriX at 250, Rodinal 1+50 for 15 minutes, 30 seconds initial agitation, 3 inversions each minute, 68 degrees. The negatives were at litlle dark so maybe 14 minutes, but I have to say the dark negatives were not blown out and the tones were all there.

 

[shadowfox]

Timely thread, I just got started with Rodinal, same questions, same concerns.

Chris, John, and Tom, thanks for sharing your wisdom.

Here's one sample that I like from the first successful roll, a 6x9 Ilford FP4 Plus (expired) developed 1+25 for 9 minutes because it's cold.

NOTE: The brown color is because I scan as positive and I didn't bother removing the cast if I happen to like it.

Overall, there is little to dislike about this developer, it's cheap, last long, it shows the characteristics of film as is, and it works well when diluted a lot.

What are the downsides?