Digital addition to mostly analog kit: m43 vs Fuji vs M

[Marc G.]

I'll start right away...

favorite focal lengths: 28, 50, 90. this is why I feel a little uncomfortable with the X100, thus I want to replace it with a solution of interchangable lenses. the wide angle converter would still make little sense. I love 50mm...

my current favourites are:

Micro Four Thirds: Olympus OMD-EM5 + 14/2.5, 25/1.4, 45 macro (2200€ for the whole thing)
+body waterproof, dont know about lenses (if not it would make the whole point of a waterproof body kinda senseless...)
+smallish and light system with good imagequality for the size of the sensor ( i know... fast AF, sensor cleaning)
+price (compared to the other systems I think about)
-sensor size? larger DOF, worse noise performance than x-Pro1 (not talking about the M )
-only EVF but better than LCD-only although I really prefer OVF over anything else


Fuji X Mount: X-Pro1 + 18/2, 35/1.4, 60 2.4 macro (3000€ for that whole lot)
+rangefinder style with OVF
+larger sensor than m43 with great noise performance, image quality and rendition
-price a lot higher than oly setup
-OVF frame lines quirky, EVF quirky at some times too
-AF speed is said to be rather slow (i havent tested this but the X100 is not a king here either. it might have improved with latest firmware... would like some opinions on this because at the time of writing I prefer manual focus over AF)

Leica M: I'd either get a M9 or M-E. probably without a lens since I already have a 28 and a 50 or a zeiss 50/2 so I got a standard for each camera
+quality of native lenses and I like the images from the sensor
+true rangefinder with manual focus which I like since I got my M6
+full frame sensor with all the positives like shallow DOF and...
-negatives of the kodak sensor like rather bad noise performance (but I dont have a tripod at the moment and I'm quite sure I wont get one in future. I'm not a night shooter too.)
-price but well.. its leica. you expect it to be expensive somehow...

If I missed important aspects please tell me. I'm rather confused with all the micro four thirds and fuji hype going on at the moment. what I actually want from a camera is a OVF and a fast/precise AF or manual focus to do it right. I could dispense with OVF if the overall package is just right

so much to the point of keeping it short...:angel:

I know this kind of threads might not be the favourite ones (and i hope it doesnt bother anyone seriously...) but I really need to hear some m43 and fuji users

thanks in advance and greetings from Germany

Cheers

Marc

 

[jsrockit]

Can you go to a store and compare each one? Maybe that is all that is needed to cut some out of your list.

 

[edge100]

The v2.0 FW upgrade has completely changed the X-Pro1. Gone is the shutter lag and AF lag that previously plagued the camera. It's a truly incredible beast now. The native lenses are terrific, and several third-parties have committed to making lenses for the XF mount (Samyang, Zeiss...the latter will make AF lenses, no less).

I can't say enough good things about the X-Pro1. It is more expensive than the other systems, but I think the cost is certainly justified.

 

[Marc G.]

thats the problem... no camera store around with the X-Pro1 or the olympus. probably some m43 but if its not that cam it seems pointless to me

thanks for the information regarding FW 2.0. sounds pretty nice how fuji did it. probably the same evolution like the X100 got with updates.

the only cam in town I can get my hands on is the M-E/M9.. already did that

 

[rbelyell]

if you really mean 'ovf' is a druther, then the only choice is the fuji.

i had been a pretty happy olympus ep2 as my second digicam person for two years. decided to move to the omd as my primary digicam for all the reasons you mentioned. i was very disappointed with the IQ especially when compared to my x100, which you also have. compaing the results is like the incredible x100 clarity paired against a camera with cataracts. truly.

i settled on the gxr which also has amazing clarity, but really is a MF cam to be used with M lenses.

therefore, again, for AF, and for ovf, and for the IQ youre used to, my vote goes to the xpro.
tony

 

[krötenblender]

Also greetings germany. - I have a E-M5 as Addition to my analog and digital RF (Zeiss Ikon, M9). Except from playing around a little bit in my local camera-store, I have no experience with the Fuji, so I can't say, if it is better or worse than the E-M5.

But I can say, that the Olympus for me is a very capable camera. Extremely quick AF (with the right lenses), impressive image quality. But it has no OVF, if this is a must for you. But the EVF is pretty good (although I prefer real RF OVFs).

But the main reason, why the OM-D is a really good addition to a RF, is that it also is a complement to RFs. The OM-D can handle long tele-lenses and macros, both not really good with a RF. Also it is really good as unobtrusive street-camera, because of its quick AF, the ability to focus and release via the tilted touch screen. Also it is smaller and lighter than most RFs.

So if you search a digital RF-alike camera, the OM-D might not be the right thing, but if you need a complement or completion to your RFs, I think, the OM-D is a good choice.

Nevertheless, I agree to jsrockit: If you have a local camera store, you should go and try both.

 

[Eric T]

I like the m43rds system. The lenses are great and the sensors have improved tremendously over the last two years.
But, the Fuji X-Pro1 and its lenses are even better - only less versatile than m43rds lenses (for now).
The Leica M system is just not competitive. And not just on price. No autofocus. Not close to the mirrorless competition in low light. No sensor cleaning. No EVF.
The M system has great IQ but so does Fuji. And m43rds is not far behind.

 

[Marc G.]

good points on the OMD camera! are there any problems with panasonic lenses on olympus cameras?

As I said: i love manual focusing as I already have a M6ttl with 50 Lux asph and 28 Elmarit asph... held the M-E for some minutes 2 weeks ago and I liked it besides being quite loud (compared to the analog..)

i dont need a large variety of lenses. fuji offered everything I need with their first 3 lenses. 28, 50, 90. bingo. and one of those is even a macro lens which would complement nicely.

what about the externel flash for the x-pro1? is it as good as the fill flash from the X100??

I've just played around with the EVF of the X100 and I get sick from using a viewfinder that even lags a tiny bit... and I mean it. its not good for my stomach what about the refresh time of the EVF on the olympus? the x-pro1 is said to be a bit laggy but I'd primarily use it with macro lens.

the good thing of a non-leica digital would be the ISO performance and the use of macro lenses.

should try to find a dealer near me but the ones in town dont have it.

 

[cosmonaut]

I think there's a lot of difference in the x100 and E-M5 EVF. Under normal lighting situations you can't really tell you are viewing a digital image. Doesn't the x100 combine OVF and overlay the data on the finder?

 

[lam]

Can you go to a store and compare each one? Maybe that is all that is needed to cut some out of your list.

This, You can't make your judgements really based on reviewers and whatever, the real question is how do YOU like it, any of the devices you listed will give great results! (i've owned 2 of the 3 cameras listed, i've since went to a $100 dollar NEX-C3 )

If a VF is necessary, then I still vote XP1, getting cheaper by the day.

 

[krötenblender]

good points on the OMD camera! are there any problems with panasonic lenses on olympus cameras?

No.

As I said: i love manual focusing as I already have a M6ttl with 50 Lux asph and 28 Elmarit asph...

If manual focusing is a must, I'm not sure, if the OM-D is the right thing. Many people say, it works very good, especially the on-the-fly 10x magnification when you turn the focus ring. But if you are used to RF-manual focus, it is a really different thing. I'm not sure, though, if the Fuji is better in that department. - At last, there is nothing like a real RF...

The only type of shooting, where I use manual focusing with the OM-D is macro with the display. And that is more because of old habits, instead of being necessary.

 

[GaryLH]

I think there's a lot of difference in the x100 and E-M5 EVF. Under normal lighting situations you can't really tell you are viewing a digital image. Doesn't the x100 combine OVF and overlay the data on the finder?

Yes both the xp1 and x100 has a heads up style display. All the digital info displayed in the evf for shutter speed, aperture, iso, etc are also displayed in ovf.

Gary

 

[lencap]

A few thoughts - I recently purchased a M9, knowing full well that the new M was about to be released. I listened to several local people, some Leica shooters some not, and found that I was being swayed by other people's opinions. Despite the good intentions of the people I spoke with I quickly realized that much of the advice was based on opinion, reading internet reviews or other second hand information.

I then started to look at the M9 from my perspective. I found a camera that had exceptional build quality, a full frame sensor, used CCD technology and had a "signature" similar to the sensor's designer - Kodak. Kodak film sometimes seemed larger than life color-wise, but it was fun to look at.

The M9 is depreciated already - plenty of low use cameras available and at least for now easy to service. You get access to all the Leica lenses, and essentially have a camera that is less than 3 design years old for about 50-60% of the original price.

Given the choices I found that the M9 met all my needs. I didn't have to "settle" for another brand - I was able to get a "real" Leica. The new M-E is essentially the same camera with a few features missing and it costs $5,500. To me getting the M9 for less money in near mint shape was an easy decision. Given your fondness for the rangefinder format, and your choice of lenses, seems as if the M9 may work for you as well.

It's also possible, but I admit not very likely, that the new M's CMOS sensor will be great for video, but will not have as unique a signature as the CCD Kodak sensor of the M9. If that turns out to be true you may find that the M9 becomes more popular and harder to get.

Regardless, I'm sure you'll find the right camera for you - just be sure that you are buying a camera based on your needs and shooting style, not having someone sell you a camera based on their biases and preferences.

 

[Marc G.]

well yeah a used M9 might go for 3000€ around christmas. many people selling theirs at the moment and when the M delivery is starting it might get even more. but a 2 year warranty seems pretty fair regarding the number of issues of the M9 camera that I've heard of.

thank you very much for your opinions so far

 

[Addy101]

May I confuse you even more? Why not a Sony Nex6 with the Sigma 19mm and 30mm? The 19mm is a 28mm in FF and I really like mine. The 30mm is 45mm in FF, if that is too wide, Sony announced a 35/1.8 that is due in December (though it is a tad expensive imho).

A FF Leica seems to be your best choice if you can afford it, as it is the closest to what you're used to. It doesn't matter what else you buy, M43, Fuji, Sony, it will be clearly different. But all options are good cameras imho, and I think it also depends on how you use your cameras.

Anyway, a picture taken with my Nex5 with the Sigma 19mm:

 

[ray*j*gun]

You might consider an M8 or 8.2. I recently acquired one and its blowing me away. However I have not used many digital RF's so ..... and I am a Leica fan, but if you are considering an M9 I would at least think about it.

 

[Marc G.]

thought about M8 but the filter thing is annoying me. and the fact that there are issues with the shutter and the display... I want a camera that lasts at least 5 years without discontinued repair services... (with the popularity of the M9 they said a 10 year repair service is possible)..

sorry to be a bit subjective here but I simply hate sony cameras. too small, too jam packed with features and no soul whatsoever. sony is a company that produced good walkmans and discmans but their more-is-more philosophy with megapixels and everything in a small package with no OVF at all is not my thing. I'd buy anything else over a sony... besides I am very tall and have huge paws. thus a NEX wouldnt make any sense at all. I want a camera, not a credit card with a battery in it

but dont take it personally please. its just that I dislike the whole marketing thing of sony and their future plans. their products lack soul in my opinion. the OMD-EM5 has a classic look. my grandpa has a OM-10 at home which I used and the x-pro1 with the classic rangefinder style also has some retro thing. I seem to like the past somehow

 

[Godfrey]

28, 50, 90... And starting from scratch?

Pick one of
Ricoh GXR + A12 Camera Mount + EVF with 21, 40, 90 lenses
or
Leica M9/M-E + 28, 50, 90 lenses.

The Ricoh pick is not exactly the same but gives me the same feel picture wise, the EVF is different but neither better nor worse to me. I have both these kits, they both produce lovely results and work the way I want a camera to work.

I tend to pick the Leica more these days.

 

[Marc G.]

if I pick the olympus/x-pro1 it would be a start from scratch. if I pick the leica M i already have a 28 and a 50, although I might get a second 50 so I dont have to change that much...

thanks for your opinion gonna have a look at the ricoh

 

[Addy101]

but dont take it personally please. its just that I dislike the whole marketing thing of sony and their future plans. their products lack soul in my opinion. the OMD-EM5 has a classic look. my grandpa has a OM-10 at home which I used and the x-pro1 with the classic rangefinder style also has some retro thing. I seem to like the past somehow

Well, I feel similar 'bout the OM-D - it is trying to be something it is not: an OM. But people fall over backwards since it reminds them of their old OM's, but to me, it is a marketing gimmick....

If it is not for you, well, it is not for you - Bottom line: get an M9