digital mju-ii / stylus epic

[______]

The X100 series are great cameras but more akin to a 35SP than a Stylus, which is why I recommended the RX100 series.

 

[wjlapier]

Sony Rx100. The original one did not have a viewfinder, but the models II-V have a pop-up viewfinder. Has a 1" sensor. And it is truly pocketable.

Models III on up have the popup VFer.

First one came to mind is the GR. There is a way to toggle between 28mm and 35mm. Bigger sensor than the Sony. The tiny CV 35 finder would be nice. The CV 28/35 even nicer if you could find one. Super sharp lens. 35mm is about 10MP I think. Not waterproof though. Highly customizable camera.

 

[ForestCap]

Now I'm dreaming about a pocketable digital PS camera with OVF but without screen on the back. Photos can be easily transferred to your computer or phones wirelessly and with cable connection.
In the OVF there is a auto focus distance indicator so you will know where the focus lies on. As well as chosen shutter speed and aperture.

But I guess no one would build that 🙂

 

[Stuart John]

I still have my old olympus digital c220 It was rather a a digital 2mp MJU with a zoom, same there really isn't a modern day equivalent.

 

[stillshunter]

discovered the multi-quote function...woo hoo...I've come up to the 1990's it seems (see it's not just cameras I'm 'retarded' with)

Dear stillshunter,

Fuji X10, there are more advanced versions but none are better for what you seek.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

Tim, I had the X10, and granted it has all the features but the form is just that little too big. There are only three manufacturers I think could pull off this digital mju and Fuji is one of them! Oh and if they could create one with the new ACROS simulation then I'd be in heaven! (love it on my X-T2)

I've had the Canon ixus 95 a long time ago and it had a tiny optical viewfinder. It was also very pocketable too. I wish camera manufacturers would reintroduce new compact cameras with such optical viewfinders. If Ricoh released a new GR with a tiny ovf, I'm sure it'd be a big hit. I'd definitely get one.

Another more recent digicam you might want to check out is the Panasonic LF1 which has an electronic viewfinder and it's quite compact.

You're spot on mate. The form factor is right on. When you look into the range you see that some came with the 1/2.5" and others with the more advanced 1/1.7" sensor. Seems the larger sensor ones are much, much rarer. Still yet to look at the outputs of these little IXUS.

Sony Rx100. The original one did not have a viewfinder, but the models II-V have a pop-up viewfinder. Has a 1" sensor. And it is truly pocketable.

Full disclosure: I owned two of the RX100 series. Each time the specs sheet looked great and each time the camera left me cold in hand. Again there is possibly nothing rational about this position, but all I will say is that the mju puts a smile on your face when you're out there using it. The RX100, not so much.

Always loved the Mju .
I`ve had a number of them in fact I`ve just bought another one.

The have tripled in price , at least in the UK

Same mate! I have a rule that I save any mju (non-zoom) I see from charity shops and car boots. I've had up to 4 at one point. But if anyone gets curious about film then they earn themselves a free mju (or XA). Converted a few folks with these little units. Many have since been passed on further and this idea makes me smile.

+1. I think the RX100 is the compact of the decade. Not cheap however. I'd like to try one because that price tag might very well justified with an excellent lens+sensor capabilities plus the compactness.

Hey Prest. Mate I cannot disagree that the RX100 changed the compact landscape. I don't think we'd half 3/4s of the line-up we have today if Sony didn't push that 1" sensor boundary in that small case. However, as mentioned to @faberryman above, the RX100 for me has the body but not the soul. Sounds harsh but it is only my personal opinion and preference. I have seen some quality images come out of others' RX100, which is all that really counts at the end of the day.

I have been on a related quest.... though instead of the Oly. I'm looking for the digital equivalent of either the Rollei 35s or Contax T. (warning... rambling thoughts)

IMO the problem with *many* pocketable digitals is the built in automatic lens cap. They are fairly fragile and can be damaged by pushing on them. They can also clog up from lint or whatever in your pocket. I have a RX100III that the lens cap doesn't always open up all the way from this.

For that reason I tend to like the cameras that have actual lens caps on them. Far more durable and less to go wrong if you are planning on actually putting it in your pocket. The Fuji X10 and X70/X100 have lens caps for example. I bought my son a x10 and it is a very nice camera. Esp. if you shoot it in 6mp mode and put it in DR400 to use the EXR hardware to increase dynamic range. In that situation the camera is actually exposing half the pixels at a different exposure to increase DR. Simple but effect optical view finder and a manually controlled zoom lens. To big for a pants pocket though.

I have a Coolpix A and that too is a nice camera. Very well built and easy to use if one is familiar with Nikon DSLRs. I have the optical VF for it but find with the 28mm FOV I prefer using the LCD. Unfortunately, it has an automatic lens cap. This was purchased before the x70 existed.

If you are looking for actual rear pants pocketable I'd suggest one of the so called tough cameras. Picture quality isn't as good but they can take a beating. I have the Pentax WG-3 and while it is ugly looking the shape is good for a back pocket camera and due to its build it doesn't matter if you sit on it. It can support 200+ pounds, is totally waterproof (which also means no chance of lint/dirt getting on the sensor) and has a couple of nice Ricoh inspired features such as a pan focus function. If you mash down the shutter button it doesn't try to AF it just jumps to pan focus (hyperfocal) and shoots fast. No VF though.

The Sony DSC-TX series tough cameras have a sliding front cover to feel sort of like the Olympus cameras. I haven't used the TXs though, they are almost completely touch screen interfaces and are likely fairly odd to use.

The RX100 series certainly fits the bill as far as size is concerned but it is a boring camera to use. The pop up VF is fiddly and slow to deploy so I rarely use it.

Where I ended up is the x100t or Coolpix A. X100t with the full manual controls can be shot like a Petri Color 35 (including scale focus in the optical view finder) and while it is a little bigger than other options it fits on a belt well. If I know I am going to need wider (or want to be even smaller carry size) I put the Coolpix A in a shirt pocket.

Shawn

Hey Shawn. Right on mate. I have not abandoned the X100T. There really still is not much like it when you are in that zone. This digital mju is not a competitor to the X100 but more a constant companion. Oddly in my X100T bag one accessory I always pack is an mju:ii. No kidding! It would be the same with the digital mju:ii

Never had a problem with the Voigtlander 35mm OVF on the X2 in my pocket, but I tend to buy trousers/jackets with big pockets and don't keep anything in them normally. (I usually wear the camera on a Street Strap rather than stuff it in my pocket anyway.)

I moved to the Leica X typ 113 a while back. It's a bit larger camera and the lens doesn't collapse, but the controls and feel are much closer to an M4-2 which I find more ergonomic. It's too large for a pocket otherwise I'd have recommended that ... it's the best performing fixed-lens digital camera I've ever had.

G

Ha Ha Ha G. mate, you are a man after my own heart. I've been tempted. So tempted by the 113. I may pounce one day. But this would be a replacement for the X100 more so. The quest for the digital mju is a separate one (a.k.a. a different excuse to buy another camera)

The X100 series are great cameras but more akin to a 35SP than a Stylus, which is why I recommended the RX100 series.

Well observed mate

Models III on up have the popup VFer.

First one came to mind is the GR. There is a way to toggle between 28mm and 35mm. Bigger sensor than the Sony. The tiny CV 35 finder would be nice. The CV 28/35 even nicer if you could find one. Super sharp lens. 35mm is about 10MP I think. Not waterproof though. Highly customizable camera.

GR is high on my list. Must also admit that the previous referral to the Inspired Eye article on the GRD-iv got me curious about the older smaller sensor camera. Hmmm... But you are right, that 28/35 VF is phenomenal. I've missed out on them in the past. I will buy the next one I see, as I think this desire, so its utility, will not cease (until my eyesight does)

Now I'm dreaming about a pocketable digital PS camera with OVF but without screen on the back. Photos can be easily transferred to your computer or phones wirelessly and with cable connection.
In the OVF there is a auto focus distance indicator so you will know where the focus lies on. As well as chosen shutter speed and aperture.

But I guess no one would build that 🙂

Now you and I need to join forces. We need to talk to Fuji, Ricoh or Olympus. And they need to listen!
(though in reality I fear we may have designed "The Homer" - https://youtu.be/Pw9gaEiQAxY)

I still have my old olympus digital c220 It was rather a a digital 2mp MJU with a zoom, same there really isn't a modern day equivalent.

Thanks for the referral mate. This does have me curious as to what clicked in the market to stop this design. In about 2005, the OVF was lost and never really returned. My gut tells me it was the mobile/cell phone that might have influenced this in compact cameras. Just a hunch though that I've not really explored.

BTW: you guys rock!

 

[Tim Murphy]

Dear stillshunter,

You are absolutely right about the physical dimensions of the Fuji X10. You need at least a coat pocket to carry it. I love it for it's dense little brick like body and excellent output and it's 2/3's the size or less of my first real camera a Canonet 28.

I have a Canon S90 I bought used for very little money and I am impressed with what it does. The larger sensor makes a difference. It doesn't have a viewfinder though and I sort of struggled with that at first but I've since come around.

I'll let you know just what kind of putz I am. I've been using digital cameras since about 2006. Somehow I accidently set the Canon S90 up to display the histogram and it was like a revelation from God. Finally my pictures got better, totally by accident, but who cares?

Good luck with your search.

Regards,

Tim Murphy
Harrisburg, PA 🙂

 

[shawn]

Did a bit more searching and Fuji also had a series of clam shell type digitals. The Z series. Looks like the Z900 was the last and it has a 16mp CMOS EXR sensor that could be shot in 8mp mode for increase DR. The Z800 had a 12mp Super CCD sensor (again wider DR) and hybrid AF with phase detect pixels on the sensor. Tiny so back pocket would be easy but touch screen for most settings. Being a Fuji it probably has a good JPEG engine. Might be fun to play with if you find a used one cheap.

Shawn

 

[______]

The Z900 doesn't have a viewfinder but certainly is slim.

 

[stillshunter]

If you are looking for actual rear pants pocketable I'd suggest one of the so called tough cameras. Picture quality isn't as good but they can take a beating. I have the Pentax WG-3 and while it is ugly looking the shape is good for a back pocket camera and due to its build it doesn't matter if you sit on it. It can support 200+ pounds, is totally waterproof (which also means no chance of lint/dirt getting on the sensor) and has a couple of nice Ricoh inspired features such as a pan focus function. If you mash down the shutter button it doesn't try to AF it just jumps to pan focus (hyperfocal) and shoots fast. No VF though.

Knew there was something I missed. Funny you should mention this mate, as it was actually a tough camera that got me into this vein of thinking in the first place. I recently went for a trip to the hot north of Australia (the Top End) and I was between systems at the time and worried about humidity ruining my kit. But even more so, we were travelling in small planes and so luggage had to be kept to a minimum - hard to prioritise cameras and lenses above underpants and shirts. So I went with only one camera for those 10 days. And the TG-4 did remarkably well. Yes there were times I lamented the IQ, esp. dynamic range for those amazing landscapes, but for the most part it reconnected me to the feeling of a simple camera that can go anywhere and doesn't get in the way. This ethos the mju-ii embodies for me.

 

[DanskDynamit]

Fuji X100 is nothing like the mju-II at all.

 

[danielsterno]

personally- u own it in the x100 EXCEPT for the weather/manual, its my everyday camera around my neck, in addition to my M6 or M5.... I have the x100 and despite its quirkiness, its my perfect camera...last BTW, X100f announcement on 1/20/17 (won't be pocketable BUT who knows what fuji has up their sleeve) 2017 will announce x100f and their medium format will materialize.... good luck and I am curious what you find

 

[stillshunter]

Did a bit more searching and Fuji also had a series of clam shell type digitals. The Z series. Looks like the Z900 was the last and it has a 16mp CMOS EXR sensor that could be shot in 8mp mode for increase DR. The Z800 had a 12mp Super CCD sensor (again wider DR) and hybrid AF with phase detect pixels on the sensor. Tiny so back pocket would be easy but touch screen for most settings. Being a Fuji it probably has a good JPEG engine. Might be fun to play with if you find a used one cheap.

Shawn

The Z900 doesn't have a viewfinder but certainly is slim.

I do admit my first thought was, "oh OK another one of those little small chip consumer cams", but then read the specs. How did they fit a 2/3" chip with 5x optical zoom in that package...and with the lens position where it is? Really does make me wonder why they've not been a little more innovative (or even better 'retrospective') with their designs, seems you could squeeze on more pertinent dials and a VF with little expense to size. Hmmmm.....

Though for me this Z-series lack of a VF - or hot-shoe to affix one is a deal-breaker. Also, to be entirely honest - I've never been a fan of touchscreens and/or mobile/cell phone style controls. Must say this is/was a smart move on Fuji's behalf. This would have grabbed the attention of that market and brought it incrementally better IQ.

Got to admit, it would be tough being in cameras and doing battle with the ubiquitous mobile/cell phone. I also lament that as our generations pass the desire to not touch you focus point and compose at arms length will be deviant 🙁
...though I'm sure we are a source of ridicule for those who still believe one should compose an image on ground glass upside down while hiding yourself behind a black curtain....
...and curious the mobile/cell shooting seems more akin to the LF style than the RF style.

 

[stillshunter]

Fuji X100 is nothing like the mju-II at all.

personally- u own it in the x100 EXCEPT for the weather/manual, its my everyday camera around my neck, in addition to my M6 or M5.... I have the x100 and despite its quirkiness, its my perfect camera...last BTW, X100f announcement on 1/20/17 (won't be pocketable BUT who knows what fuji has up their sleeve) 2017 will announce x100f and their medium format will materialize.... good luck and I am curious what you find

Got to agree with both you guys.

The X100 is quite a different proposition to the mju. I use my X100 in a more deliberate way. I take it with me when I'm shooting - or likely to shoot. Wear it bandolier style under my arm for when the need arises. I find I shoot the X100 like I did the Leica M or the Hexar AF. Out there with the intent (or likelihood) to shoot.

Meanwhile the mju is more for incidental shooting. Always in the back pocket, always in the bag, always in the car. I take it when I do not intend to shoot, but then sigh with relief to know its there. I have not yet clicked to using the mobile/cell phone when a moment arrives while we've popped out grocery shopping or on the way to work or... my wife is quick-draw to the phone but I always slap my forehead for forgetting. So I'm looking for a digital mju to be at the ready when I'm not.

But to be clear I do not see cameras like the X100 and the mju as opposing but more as complementary cameras.

 

[akptc]

A vote for the Ricoh GR large sensor. I too was convinced I could not live w/out a VF. A year later, I don't leave home w/out the GRD. LOVE IT.
I still have the Oly, the X100s, and bunch of other pocket-sized wonders but Ricoh rules.

 

[shawn]

Though for me this Z-series lack of a VF - or hot-shoe to affix one is a deal-breaker. Also, to be entirely honest - I've never been a fan of touchscreens and/or mobile/cell phone style controls. Must say this is/was a smart move on Fuji's behalf. This would have grabbed the attention of that market and brought it incrementally better IQ.

A VF is going to be tough for a rear pants pocketable camera that will actually last in that situation. A few smaller cameras like the Panny ZS50 have a small EVF on them but I wouldn't trust the lens cover to hold up to pocket use and the diopter adjustment will likely get thrown out all the time sliding in/out of a pocket.

As far as touchscreen I agree completely. But I was thinking if you were wanting to use the thing like a Mju-II/Stylus Epic those have basically no controls on them. Duplicating that with the Fuji/whatever after you set it up you will just be using power, shutter and maybe zoom. The purpose of the camera wasn't a be all end all, just something simple to carry and have all the time and that will last carrying it in your back pocket.

Anything with an automatic lens cover and/or retracting lens is likely going to break or get dust on the sensor. Or you will hit the power button putting it in/out of the pocket and it will try and extend the lens and break something.

Shawn

 

[Godfrey]

...
Ha Ha Ha G. mate, you are a man after my own heart. I've been tempted. So tempted by the 113. I may pounce one day. But this would be a replacement for the X100 more so. The quest for the digital mju is a separate one (a.k.a. a different excuse to buy another camera)

I do my best to resist that urge these days. :bang:

Now I'm dreaming about a pocketable digital PS camera with OVF but without screen on the back. Photos can be easily transferred to your computer or phones wirelessly and with cable connection.
In the OVF there is a auto focus distance indicator so you will know where the focus lies on. As well as chosen shutter speed and aperture.

But I guess no one would build that 🙂

...
Now you and I need to join forces. We need to talk to Fuji, Ricoh or Olympus. And they need to listen!
(though in reality I fear we may have designed "The Homer" - https://youtu.be/Pw9gaEiQAxY)
...

The market for such a thing is likely just too darn small to make it a profitable endeavor.

My X has been sitting most of the time since last July because on a similar urge trip I went out and bought a Leica M-D typ 262. It has become my favorite grab and go camera, and in some ways my favorite digital camera. No LCD, no settings other than exposure and focus, just plop the Summilux 35mm on it and go take pictures. It lets me work the way I always did with film Ms but has all the advantages of digital capture. From a market standpoint, it's been selling reasonably well in its small niche but even in the exclusive Leica marketplace that niche is pretty tiny.

Such it is. 😎

G

 

[stillshunter]

UPDATE:
Mammoth sized thanks to all for your help. Based on your recommendations I recently took ownership of a Ricoh GR-II. Yeah I could have bought the original GR or the earlier GRD-series, but I sourced a local offering at a great price. On arrival I paired it with a Voigtlander Brightline 28mm finder, and so far so good. Well that's an understatement...I am absolutely loving it! Really enjoy the feel of it in hand, the controls are just where they should be. And the outputs?...well. Poor X100T is afraid. Very afraid.

Again thank you to everyone for your help. Every piece of advice helped.
...actually still looking at a few others - e.g., I also bought a Fuji F30 during this process 😉

A couple of images from the camera to share in gratitude.