FrankS
Registered User
I've read that the contrast range of digital is like slide film instead of the expanded range of negative film, and that highlight clipping is a problem just as with slide film. My digital camera has film simulation modes. Wouldn't it be best to use the least contrasty mode (astia) rather than a more contrasty mode (velvia or classic chrome) to capture the image with, given my preamble?
Kwesi
Well-known
I haven't used my Xpro in a while but I believe both Astia and Provia are very "gentle" profiles.
Astia is warmer and meant for skin tones while Provia is more neutral.
Astia is warmer and meant for skin tones while Provia is more neutral.
f16sunshine
Moderator
If you are only saving a Jpeg the answer is yes probably.
If you wish greater contrast and saturation you can add it easier than removing it.
The best answer is to save a RAW for editing and a JPEG that is closest to your desired final output.
If you wish greater contrast and saturation you can add it easier than removing it.
The best answer is to save a RAW for editing and a JPEG that is closest to your desired final output.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I'm unfamiliar with Fuji films in general (other than Velvia, which I disliked, and ACROS 100, which I love... call me conflicted ;-), but if you're using the in-camera JPEG processing engine, you have to pick the film mode and settings that best renders the subject you have in mind. Velvia produces lovely results for some subjects and some intents, so does Kodak C200, despite their being very different films. Once you pick the right rendering for your subject's contrast range and your intended color rendering, you have to hit the right exposure. Then and only then should you think about the exposure curve differences between film and digital, and what you should consider then is how to expose differently on the basis of the rendering settings you've chosen rather than whether it's more or less like slides or negatives.
The goal with shooting using in-camera JPEGs, IMO, is to produce finished work straight out of the camera, so all these decisions are important up front.
If you switch to raw capture and eschew the out of camera JPEGs, then you think only of the exposure requirements because you're going to apply the rendering adjustments yourself and you have a lot more flexibility as to how you apply them compared to the in-camera lab. Then the exposure evaluation I use is much simpler: place the Zone IX detail highlights at about 8-10% before clipping. The shadow values will fall where they may, and you work with them in the rendering to get what you want out of the image.
G
tomtofa
Well-known
Andy is right about using Raws, and you might also try the Pro Neg Standard as a jpeg simulation starting point. I find that even more gentle in the high/low areas than Astia.
daveleo
what?
When you are going with ooc jpg's OR when using the camera's RAW-to-JPG algorythm, try these settings:
highlight mode = -2 (soft)
shadow mode = -2 (soft)
See how you like that output.
Tweak as desired.
highlight mode = -2 (soft)
shadow mode = -2 (soft)
See how you like that output.
Tweak as desired.
FrankS
Registered User
Thanks for responses all. I am shooting jpeg only as I don't have a PC (memory and computing power), or software to,deal with RAW files.
Dave, can I adjust the highlight and shadow modes when shooting just jpegs?
Dave, can I adjust the highlight and shadow modes when shooting just jpegs?
Godfrey
somewhat colored
You're transferring to an iPad, if I recall correctly. You might want to obtain a copy of the PhotoRAW app. It support your camera and would allow you to edit raw files right there. Look it up in the App Store ... It's a pretty nice raw processor, although I don't know how it does with Fuji files specifically. I seem to recall it cost about $15.
G
daveleo
what?
Yes. Scroll through the menu pages (always good for a laugh) and maybe page 3 (?) you will see the highlight and shadow mode choices.
But, let me pass along a valuable hint (thanks to willie_901):
the Fuji cameras have a built-in RAW-jpg converter. This is a WONDERFUL feature, even if you only want jpg's out of the camera.
If you shoot either RAW (actually RAF) or RAW+JPG, you can convert that RAW file into as many DIFFERENT jpgs as you desire - each jpg can be tweaked regarding lots of parameters (like highlight and shadow mode, and even film choice !!). It does not destroy the original RAW file. Each jpg out of that conversion will look different depending on your choices.
This process is very forgiving. If you choose the "wrong" camera menu setting to make your pictures, you can easily go back to the raw file, in the camera, and make a different jpg.
Think about this. It's a very powerful procedure.
I know I know . . . I talk too much
But, let me pass along a valuable hint (thanks to willie_901):
the Fuji cameras have a built-in RAW-jpg converter. This is a WONDERFUL feature, even if you only want jpg's out of the camera.
If you shoot either RAW (actually RAF) or RAW+JPG, you can convert that RAW file into as many DIFFERENT jpgs as you desire - each jpg can be tweaked regarding lots of parameters (like highlight and shadow mode, and even film choice !!). It does not destroy the original RAW file. Each jpg out of that conversion will look different depending on your choices.
This process is very forgiving. If you choose the "wrong" camera menu setting to make your pictures, you can easily go back to the raw file, in the camera, and make a different jpg.
Think about this. It's a very powerful procedure.
I know I know . . . I talk too much
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
jpeg
jpeg
I believe that those settings ONLY apply to the jpeg output, whether or not you're shooting RAW. And, I believe that when shooting both, the effect will only be seen on the jpeg.
jpeg
I believe that those settings ONLY apply to the jpeg output, whether or not you're shooting RAW. And, I believe that when shooting both, the effect will only be seen on the jpeg.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
Hi Frank,
As Daveleo says, you can fiddle around with the highlight and shadow settings you see in the Q menu. Also, I highly recommend using the "DR200" setting for dynamic range (also found in the Q menu). You might want to have a look at DPReview's technical measurement of the Fuji's dynamic range. The impact is rather significant if you can live with using ISO 400 or above. I use DR200 whenever I can, which is almost always. In the 'old' days, using ISO400 in digital cameras brought a significant amount of noise with it. But no longer. Try it, you'll like it.
Jamie
As Daveleo says, you can fiddle around with the highlight and shadow settings you see in the Q menu. Also, I highly recommend using the "DR200" setting for dynamic range (also found in the Q menu). You might want to have a look at DPReview's technical measurement of the Fuji's dynamic range. The impact is rather significant if you can live with using ISO 400 or above. I use DR200 whenever I can, which is almost always. In the 'old' days, using ISO400 in digital cameras brought a significant amount of noise with it. But no longer. Try it, you'll like it.
Jamie
FrankS
Registered User
Hi Jamie! Thanks. DR is set to auto.
GaryLH
Veteran
Too Jamie's point..sort of
Too Jamie's point..sort of
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-e2/11
The dynamic range section of the xe2 writeup at dp review does a good job IMHO in terms of showing a particular camera's dynamic range.. W/ the example u can c how different cameras dynamic range relative to each other. Where the knee is for both black and white for each camera.
In particular, as it refers to Jamie's comment, the effect of changing dr from 100-400 affects the dynamic range of the camera.
Gary
Too Jamie's point..sort of
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-e2/11
The dynamic range section of the xe2 writeup at dp review does a good job IMHO in terms of showing a particular camera's dynamic range.. W/ the example u can c how different cameras dynamic range relative to each other. Where the knee is for both black and white for each camera.
In particular, as it refers to Jamie's comment, the effect of changing dr from 100-400 affects the dynamic range of the camera.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
Forgot to mention..
They also show different setting to give best dynamic range using other settings other than the dr value such as film emulation setting and contrast for example which would be things u would do if u were shooting jpg.
If u are a raw shooter, most of these things probably do not affect the raw image unless the setting changes the way the digital hw works vs something that the CPU does a final step to creating the jpg. Things like film emulation to me should be a sw modification whereas the dr value change most likely is done in hw.. Just guessing. If someone knows for sure..please advise.
Gary
They also show different setting to give best dynamic range using other settings other than the dr value such as film emulation setting and contrast for example which would be things u would do if u were shooting jpg.
If u are a raw shooter, most of these things probably do not affect the raw image unless the setting changes the way the digital hw works vs something that the CPU does a final step to creating the jpg. Things like film emulation to me should be a sw modification whereas the dr value change most likely is done in hw.. Just guessing. If someone knows for sure..please advise.
Gary
Oscuro
He's French, I'm Italian.
Frank,
Don't bother with RAW, the Fuji in-camera jpg engine is superb. If you do shoot RAW, I will guarantee you that in high-contrast environments you will spend four hours trying to do with a RAW file what the camera's jpg engine will do in a freaking nano-second. But don't take my word for it. Put it to the test.
Play with the DR settings in Astia or Provia. Set them to Auto or 400 percent. Try Highlight Tone on Soft and Shadow Tone on STD. Sharpness to Hard and Color to High. And then play.
The Velvia simulation is horse$hit - it makes anything in the red-green bands look like it was sprayed with survey paint. Brutal.
You will find after a lot of frames you may prefer to undershoot in exposure by .7 stop. Or more. A lot more. A counter-intuitive process for a black and white film guy.
For iPad-friendly apps:
Try Snapseed for editing. Also rans are Filterstorm and Photogene.
Try Photo Manager Pro for sorting.
Try PhotoMrkr for watermarking.
I've used blogspot (a google product) for blog/image hosting. Flickr and Tumblr and others seem interesting also.
Oh, by the way, I grew up in the T-dot. Basically on College between Spadina and Grace.
I shot Kodachrome for nearly forty years before I went whole-heartedly digital. Have fun, baby. Life is short, and film is cheap in the digital world. Shoot, critique, delete, and occasionally keep.
Don't bother with RAW, the Fuji in-camera jpg engine is superb. If you do shoot RAW, I will guarantee you that in high-contrast environments you will spend four hours trying to do with a RAW file what the camera's jpg engine will do in a freaking nano-second. But don't take my word for it. Put it to the test.
Play with the DR settings in Astia or Provia. Set them to Auto or 400 percent. Try Highlight Tone on Soft and Shadow Tone on STD. Sharpness to Hard and Color to High. And then play.
The Velvia simulation is horse$hit - it makes anything in the red-green bands look like it was sprayed with survey paint. Brutal.
You will find after a lot of frames you may prefer to undershoot in exposure by .7 stop. Or more. A lot more. A counter-intuitive process for a black and white film guy.
For iPad-friendly apps:
Try Snapseed for editing. Also rans are Filterstorm and Photogene.
Try Photo Manager Pro for sorting.
Try PhotoMrkr for watermarking.
I've used blogspot (a google product) for blog/image hosting. Flickr and Tumblr and others seem interesting also.
Oh, by the way, I grew up in the T-dot. Basically on College between Spadina and Grace.
I shot Kodachrome for nearly forty years before I went whole-heartedly digital. Have fun, baby. Life is short, and film is cheap in the digital world. Shoot, critique, delete, and occasionally keep.
lynnb
Veteran
today I came across this blog post which talks about Fuji's jpeg and RAW processing. It explains a bit of Fuji's thinking in their approach to producing such great jpegs out of their X-trans cameras. He suggests Fuji underexposes to give gentle highlight rolloff, and boosts the shadows, trading a bit of higher shadow noise for better (and more film-like) overall IQ.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
Yoda says...
Yoda says...
FRANK... "Auto"?? As Yoda would say: "Auto NO, no need Auto.... DO!" That is, try setting it at DR100, 200, and 400 and see what happens. If its set on Auto, well, you've given up control. That doesn't sound like you at all!!
Yoda says...
FRANK... "Auto"?? As Yoda would say: "Auto NO, no need Auto.... DO!" That is, try setting it at DR100, 200, and 400 and see what happens. If its set on Auto, well, you've given up control. That doesn't sound like you at all!!
willie_901
Veteran
With apologies I will suggest a more flexible, but complicated possibility .
Fujifilm has a display mode where the in-camera raw can be processes in-camera to produce different types of JPEG files. The good news is one can apply all the in-camera JPEG rendering parameters to make as many versions of the same photo as you wish.
Here is the list
"Create a JPEG copy using the settings in effect at the time the photo was taken.
Adjust exposure by –1 EV to +3 EV in incre- ments of 1/3 EV (P 52).
Enhance details in highlights for natural contrast (P 79).
Simulate the effects of different types of film (P 42).
Adjust white balance (P 43).
Fine-tune white balance (P 43).
Adjust color density (P 80).
Sharpen or soften outlines (P 80).
Adjust highlights (P 80).
Adjust shadows (P 80).
Process the copy to reduce mottling (P 80).
Improve definition by adjusting for diffraction and the slight loss of focus at the periphery of the lens (P 80).
Choose the color space used for color reproduction (P 93)."
(The page numbers are not from the XE-2 manual.)
This means many JPEG renderings of a single photograph can be created in-camera and stored on the SDHC memory card.
The bad news is the process is not particularly convenient as one is jumping around and scrolling through the camera's display options.
This may be a useful way to come up with a set of JPEG in-camera rendering parameters you prefer for different circumstances.
It is possible to store and recall some of these settings using the Custom Menu Settings.
"Highlight a custom settings bank and press MENU/OK to select. Adjust the following as desired and press DISP/BACK when adjustments are complete: DYNAMIC RANGE, FILM SIMULATION, WHITE BALANCE, COLOR, SHARPNESS, HIGHLIGHT TONE, SHADOW TONE, and NOISE REDUCTION."
Fujifilm has a display mode where the in-camera raw can be processes in-camera to produce different types of JPEG files. The good news is one can apply all the in-camera JPEG rendering parameters to make as many versions of the same photo as you wish.
Here is the list
"Create a JPEG copy using the settings in effect at the time the photo was taken.
Adjust exposure by –1 EV to +3 EV in incre- ments of 1/3 EV (P 52).
Enhance details in highlights for natural contrast (P 79).
Simulate the effects of different types of film (P 42).
Adjust white balance (P 43).
Fine-tune white balance (P 43).
Adjust color density (P 80).
Sharpen or soften outlines (P 80).
Adjust highlights (P 80).
Adjust shadows (P 80).
Process the copy to reduce mottling (P 80).
Improve definition by adjusting for diffraction and the slight loss of focus at the periphery of the lens (P 80).
Choose the color space used for color reproduction (P 93)."
(The page numbers are not from the XE-2 manual.)
This means many JPEG renderings of a single photograph can be created in-camera and stored on the SDHC memory card.
The bad news is the process is not particularly convenient as one is jumping around and scrolling through the camera's display options.
This may be a useful way to come up with a set of JPEG in-camera rendering parameters you prefer for different circumstances.
It is possible to store and recall some of these settings using the Custom Menu Settings.
"Highlight a custom settings bank and press MENU/OK to select. Adjust the following as desired and press DISP/BACK when adjustments are complete: DYNAMIC RANGE, FILM SIMULATION, WHITE BALANCE, COLOR, SHARPNESS, HIGHLIGHT TONE, SHADOW TONE, and NOISE REDUCTION."
MCTuomey
Veteran
... in the voice of Judy Garland -
"Somewhere over the rainbow, well between Will and Oscuro, (most) fuji users fly ... "
"Somewhere over the rainbow, well between Will and Oscuro, (most) fuji users fly ... "
Oscuro
He's French, I'm Italian.
Huh. Yeah. I just treat it like transparency film. Shoot a lot and eventually you start to understand and drive the camera/"film" behavior to where you want.