Digital Zeis Ikon

Digital Zeis Ikon

  • Yes

    Votes: 140 75.3%

  • No

    Votes: 15 8.1%

  • Same

    Votes: 31 16.7%
  • Total voters
    186
I don't care whether its full frame or cropped

but I just want it to be wedding worthy (reliable, relatively fast ergonomics)
and under 2000 USD (actually I would like it less than that but lets be somewhat realistic)

I don't mind DSLRs however its just not practical to carry one around all the time ... and my F30 is adequate but its just not the same as shooting with a nice prime lens
 
I don't see Carl Zeiss releasing a digital camera in the near future, although I don't know that for a fact. Just a guess.

However, I'm quite certain that Zeiss is closely watching the situation with the M8 and doesn't want to end up going down that road. I wouldn't be surprised if Zeiss takes an even more cautious approach before making the jump.

And the further question is: How many want to see this camera on the market? And how many will actually buy it new -- not second hand, but new?

I would expect a price of between $2,500 and $3,500 for a full-frame Zeiss Ikon. If it decides to go the sensor crop route, I think the price would be closer to $2,500-$3,000. Again, pure speculation; I have no insider knowledge.

Personally, I don't want a sensor crop. A sensor crop sucks. I want and would expect a no-compromise approach from Zeiss.

Today's consumer just wants something on the market. Anything. Doesn't have to be great, just as long as it's there. And as soon as it arrives, then it's time to pick it apart and start speculating on the successor model that will then have the features that were left out of this model.

Zeiss can't afford to play this game. Whatever digital camera it brings to the market will need to have a shelf life that is at least double that of current products, possibly more.
 
Nachkebia said:
Canon? what slr has to do with digital rangefinder? and why 5D is not enough? 🙂
Click to expand...

the Canon 7sD will be a rangefinder digital camera with a full size sensor.
it will take its styling and functionality from the mid 1960s Canon 7s (z).
 
ZeissFan said:
II would expect a price of between $2,500 and $3,500 for a full-frame Zeiss Ikon.
Click to expand...

Canon's least-expensive 24x36-sensor DSLR costs nearly $3,000, and they've already paid off most of their sensor-manufacturing development cost.

Given that RF cameras are considerably more expensive than similarly-spec'ed SLRs because of the smaller sales volume and the extra precision they require, and I would expect a 24x36-sensor Ikon to cost in the range of $5,000 if manufactured to the same quality level as the current Ikon.

This is based on the fact that the most recent DRF camera (M8) cost about 50% more than the same manufacturer's film RF, plus a premium for development of a currently non-existent 24x36 sensor capability (the Epson and Leica were able to draw on DSLR practice for their electronic designs, lowering development costs, but there would be no 24x36-sensor DSLR on which to base this design since nobody except Canon makes one.)

Whether people would pay more than the price of a Leica M8 for a 24x36-sensor Ikon would depend on whether the larger sensor was seen to offset the "stigma" of Cosina manufacture (which doesn't bother most of us who actually use Cosina-made cameras, but seems to bother a lot of other people.)

I suspect that at least some of the people who say, "I insist on a 24x36 sensor and anything else is an unacceptable compromise" don't actually own any high-end digital camera now. They're what car salesmen call "pipe smokers": people who don't intend to buy a car at all, who just enjoy fencing with the salesman and finding rationalizations to reject everything offered. It would be quite defensible for Zeiss to suspect that such people would never "put their money where their mouth is."


The only people who do demonstrably care enough about a 24x36 sensor enough to pay a premium for it in a digital camera are people who have bought Canon's two 24x36-sensor models. How many of those people also want a rangefinder camera (and would be willing to pay a premium for it, and buy a new set of lenses for it) would be a good test of the market for such a camera.


(On the other hand, suppose it were possible to engineer a genuinely modern electronic optical RF: I wonder if a stepper motor could move the RF optics accurately enough to substitute for all those expensive precision-machined levers, and if a digital encoder in the lens could be precise enough to stand in for that costly custom-finished coupling cam on an RF lens.

If it could, then it would be only trivially expensive for a company whose DSLRs already use an all-electronic lens mount to engineer an electronic-RF camera that used a version of that same mount; the lenses then could be used on either type of body. The extra throat depth of an RF camera with a DSLR lens mount would eliminate some of the compactness advantages of an RF camera, but it also would eliminate the chief-ray-angle issues that made development of the R-D 1 and M8 so difficult.

All that plus an extant 24x36 sensor spells C-A-N-O-N... too bad they'd be too ruthlessly practical to consider such a thing! Canon seems to be the least nostalgic of all the major camera companies, with absolutely no interest in celebrating its heritage the way Nikon has done with commemorative cameras, Pentax has done with special-edition lenses, and Olympus has done to some extent at least with advertising allusions to its classic cameras. Too bad, because they seem in the best position of anyone to introduce a truly modern, compromise-free DRF...)
 
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If not possible don`t make it!
Leica made it and? why should zeiss do the same? I don`t mind waitin two years for full frame $2000 rangefinder camera 😀
 
"Full frame" is a non-issue for me, even on a 1.5 crop I doubt the effective FOV of the CV 12mm (18mm) is too narrow for most of us. The widest I ever shoot is between 21 and 28 mm. Even Canon don't seem to be in any rush to bring out a new full frame body, which makes me think it was a proof of concept more than a serious effort to make full frame a standard for digital imaging.

A digital RF without the gross IR sensitivity of the M8 and with decent manufacturer support, unlike the Epson, is all I ask. Preferably priced no more than £2K. Surely this can't be too much to hope for, but I fear it may be.

Ian
 
Nachkebia said:
Zeiss ikon is great camera, I am sure digital zeiss ikon would be perfect digital camera if it would be full frame and under $2000..
Click to expand...

And I'm sure Ferrari would be the perfect car “if got 40mpg, did over 200 mph, and cost no more then 30,000 USD.” "Where moose and squirrel?"

Seriously if it came in at 3500- 4000 USD, had a longer and more reliable rangefinder base then my R-D1s, and had a crop factor of say 1.3 I'd be VERY HAPPY. Oh and I'll keep the film advance lever thank you very much 😀
 
jlw said:
(On the other hand, suppose it were possible to engineer a genuinely modern electronic optical RF: I wonder if a stepper motor could move the RF optics accurately enough to substitute for all those expensive precision-machined levers, and if a digital encoder in the lens could be precise enough to stand in for that costly custom-finished coupling cam on an RF lens.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the Digital Contax G 😀
 
Ferrari? I don`t think any digital camera can equal to ferrari, pardon me 🙂 maybe latest honda acord 😀 anyhow time passes and digital technology becomes cheap and we hope finaly we will have full frame sensors for cheap, you are happy with 1.3 crop, I am not 🙂
 
I think - I saw that information here, on RFF : some people from Zeiss said that they have plans about full frame Zeiss ...
Click to expand...

No, you saw a quote from a Zeiss lens catalog saying they wouldn't consider marketing an M-mount digital camera until it could have a 24x36 sensor and meet their standards for image quality.

This could be a long wait...
 
Either a digital Zeiss or a digital Leica would be alright with me. I'm not hung up on the "full frame" thing (I use a Nikon D200 as well as film Nikons) but the viewfinder frames should reflect the field of view of the attached lens in the digital domain. Pricing is probably best if under $3000. I could handle that either new or used, but not much more. Anyway it sounds nice...
 
Considering the resources available to RF digital development and the problems with RF wideangles sitting so close to the film plane, a full frame sensor is not likely in 2 years for any price. Leica needed a Digital M to survive but why whould any other manufacturer commit more resources then Leica to best the Leica design considering the likely ROI.

Consider that Canon is the only DSLR manufacturer that has been able to produce a commercially viable 24x36 DSLR. A full-frame M is a bigger technical challenge then a full-frame DSLR, so I think its safe to assume higher R+D costs for a full frame M then for the full frame Canon 1 series. Now compare the size of the SLR market to the RF market and tell me what bean counter in his right mind would sign off on the $$$ for development?

You might as well wish for a pink pony for Christmas 🙂
 
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