Dire Straits with E-P1 and Leica wideangle?

T

Tikkis

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Hello!
I am a rather new PEN E-P1 user, and I must say that I like this little beast with all of it's ups and downs. I haven't been shooting on film for about 15 years now, only occasionally exposing some CCD-matrix to light.
The idea of using older beautifully made lenses on new PEN has put a completely new life in old retairees mind. So I bought PEN and couple of more modestly priced new Leica M-lenses, Elmarit-M 2,8/28 mm and Summarit-M 2,5/50 mm. They were not cheap by any means but they didn't bankrupt me either.
What puts me in agony is the unavoidable fact that the beautifully made 28 mm Leica wideangle seems to be incompatible with the PEN's 4/3 cell. In all pictures (I shall post some examples later) taken with it the corners of the picture frame clearly lose sharpness and somehow also the tones also get murky and soggy.
I would love to hear some comments from my fellow photographers who have been using PEN E-P1 with other Cosina-Voigtländer, Zeiss or Leica made 28mm lenses. If I have to sell the brand new Leica lens, I want to be sure that the lens I buy for it's stead is fully compatible with the cell.

Please let me hear from your experiences,

Thanks in advance and Greetings,

Tikkis,
Helsinki, Finland
 
for a moment i thought the band dire straits was seen with an e-p1 and leica wide angle.

would you be so kind as to post some photos of the elmarit on the e-p1? a friend of mine has that set up and it seems fine. well, it should be considering that the sensor only takes the center 1/4 of the image projected by the lens.

he also uses a voigtlander 15mm lens and swears by the results. unfortunately, i do not have any samples of his photos. maybe other members can help with that?

btw, have you checked flickr? there're quite a large number of photos taken w a non m43 lens on the e-p1 there.
 
From reports, and some of the photos I've seen, the E-P1 sensor doesn't not work well with lenses that have an exit pupil close to its sensor, because the light rays come out at an oblique angle.

It seems to be received wisdom that the system lenses, and SLR lenses, work better on micro 4/3 than RF designs.
 
Tikkis said:
Hello!
I am a rather new PEN E-P1 user, and I must say that I like this little beast with all of it's ups and downs. I haven't been shooting on film for about 15 years now, only occasionally exposing some CCD-matrix to light.
The idea of using older beautifully made lenses on new PEN has put a completely new life in old retairees mind. So I bought PEN and couple of more modestly priced new Leica M-lenses, Elmarit-M 2,8/28 mm and Summarit-M 2,5/50 mm. They were not cheap by any means but they didn't bankrupt me either.
What puts me in agony is the unavoidable fact that the beautifully made 28 mm Leica wideangle seems to be incompatible with the PEN's 4/3 cell. In all pictures (I shall post some examples later) taken with it the corners of the picture frame clearly lose sharpness and somehow also the tones also get murky and soggy.
I would love to hear some comments from my fellow photographers who have been using PEN E-P1 with other Cosina-Voigtländer, Zeiss or Leica made 28mm lenses. If I have to sell the brand new Leica lens, I want to be sure that the lens I buy for it's stead is fully compatible with the cell.

Please let me hear from your experiences,

Thanks in advance and Greetings,

Tikkis,

Helsinki, Finland
Click to expand...
The 4/3 system is built around telecentric lenses, whereby the light path is, in very broad brush terms, perpendicular to the sensor, and the sensor is designed to take full advantage of that light path. This is why Olympus and Panasonic lenses have exceptional edge and corner sharpness when compared to many other brands. They are not designed along the lines of 35mm lenses. So with that in mind, when you put a wide angle 35mm lens on a 4/3 or m4/3 camera the light path from the lens hits the corners of the sensor at an acute angle, rather that perpendicular. The cells of the sensor are not lined up to do that, so the image is blurred because the light is hitting them at an angle. But if a longer 35mm lens is used, common consent is 40mm and up, you are using a sweeter spot of the lens where the ligh path is relatively speaking and in very broad brush terms more perpendicular to the sensor, so it works, and Leica lenses will show off all their characteristic sharpness and tone from corner to corner.In a nutshell, you are using the wrong lens.Steve
 
Was about to ask: is Mark Knopfler working on a photo book project? :p

(His songwriting seems more cinematic in scope, IMO.)


- Barrett
 
250swb said:
The 4/3 system is built around telecentric lenses, whereby the light path is, in very broad brush terms, perpendicular to the sensor, and the sensor is designed to take full advantage of that light path. This is why Olympus and Panasonic lenses have exceptional edge and corner sharpness when compared to many other brands. They are not designed along the lines of 35mm lenses. So with that in mind, when you put a wide angle 35mm lens on a 4/3 or m4/3 camera the light path from the lens hits the corners of the sensor at an acute angle, rather that perpendicular. The cells of the sensor are not lined up to do that, so the image is blurred because the light is hitting them at an angle. But if a longer 35mm lens is used, common consent is 40mm and up, you are using a sweeter spot of the lens where the ligh path is relatively speaking and in very broad brush terms more perpendicular to the sensor, so it works, and Leica lenses will show off all their characteristic sharpness and tone from corner to corner.In a nutshell, you are using the wrong lens.Steve
Click to expand...

I have often wondered about what effect this design feature has when using my vc 21/4.

I have 100% crops here http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77218 that show that this sub 35mm lens is pretty sharp out to the corners. It's as good as the kit lens...

Cheers - John
 
Johnmcd said:
I have often wondered about what effect this design feature has when using my vc 21/4.

I have 100% crops here http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77218 that show that this sub 35mm lens is pretty sharp out to the corners. It's as good as the kit lens...

Cheers - John
Click to expand...

I suppose the result can depend on the actual lens, and the percieved sharpness can also be affected by the contrast of the lens. But the results of wider lenses on the m4/3 cameras is well known on the Four Thirds Photo Forum. The 17mm kit lens isn't great in respect of corner and edge sharpness and this has been a gripe as well, Olympus users are used to exceptional rendering and corner sharpness with their lenses. At the moment Panasonic are ahead in m4/3 lenses by a long way, and if anybody has an EP-1 body that they want to add a zoom lens to I suggest the Pana 14-45mm, and not the Olympus 14-42mm, or if a compatible fixed length the Pana 20mm pancake, not the 17mm pancake.

Steve
 
"Check out Elmar-it, it has all the stops, but it's strictly center, cause the edges leave a fuzzy ring. It don't give a damn about any out of focus band, when it bends and flips the light, for sensor-ing."

-sorry, couldn't resist ;)
 
Paul T. said:
From reports, and some of the photos I've seen, the E-P1 sensor doesn't not work well with lenses that have an exit pupil close to its sensor, because the light rays come out at an oblique angle.

It seems to be received wisdom that the system lenses, and SLR lenses, work better on micro 4/3 than RF designs.
Click to expand...

These seem to be wise words. I was able to do some comparison tests with E-P1 Kit Zoom and the Zuiko 14-54 Zoom. The conclusions are clear and unavoidable, Leica Elmarit-M M 2,8/28 mm aspheric wideangle simply can't be used with Olympus Pen E-F1. I guess that many other symmetrical wide angle lenses are incompatible in similar fashion.

Alas, I have to find a different lens solution.

Thanks for all the comments and opinions.

Have a nice autumn. Cheers! Tikkis
 
I also have a E-P1 and i wondering what lens is good for street photo and other snap shots. Now i have only 14-42mm kit zoom and a future i like buy a 15mm or 21 CV or new 20mm panasonic lens. Did anybody have both of these and can tell the difference of these or maybe show the photos.

nice winter coming to everybody


Harril
Alastaro, Finland
 
I've had both the 15 and 21 CV lenses, and I presently have the Panasonic 20. You would be crazy not to go with the 20. It is spectacular. The CV lenses are terrific on the cameras they were made for, but the 20 is made for m4/3ds, has autofocus, and is lighter and far, far faster.

Plus, the 20 focuses down to about five inches!
 
Oh yeah, and if you subscribe to Sean Reid's site, you should check out his reviews of the G1 and Milich adapter. Long story short, your wide RF glass is pretty much all going to be soft in the corners. If you're not fussy (I'm not) the images can look great, but not as good as on the M8. Native glass seems to be much sharper (in my case, this is anecdotal only, as I've only got the 20 so far).
 
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