AusDLK
Famous Photographer
I just developed my two trial rolls of Bluefire Police film.
Overall they are both very thin. Some frames so thin that I fear whether I can pull a satisfactory scans from them.
Both rolls were exposed at ISO 80 and developed using the low-contrast 16 minute development method in the developer provided.
Maybe the thin film is a result of the low-agitation/low-contrast development because I am confident that my metering was done correctly. But I have no point of reference about this.
Anyone else have experience with this film?
Overall they are both very thin. Some frames so thin that I fear whether I can pull a satisfactory scans from them.
Both rolls were exposed at ISO 80 and developed using the low-contrast 16 minute development method in the developer provided.
Maybe the thin film is a result of the low-agitation/low-contrast development because I am confident that my metering was done correctly. But I have no point of reference about this.
Anyone else have experience with this film?
MadMan2k
Well-known
I've seen some shots from that film with a LOT of contrast, which is why I want to try it, but I haven't had a chance to yet.
Good luck with the scans. Maybe you can treat it like normal film as far as agitating goes next time and see how it works?
Good luck with the scans. Maybe you can treat it like normal film as far as agitating goes next time and see how it works?
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
>treat it like normal film as far as agitating goes next time and see how it works?
More agitating supposedly results in higher contrast.
The negs are very contrastly and so far with my scans on a Nikon 5000 there seems to be little to no midtones. Or at least very little contrast in the midtones.
Still testing...
More agitating supposedly results in higher contrast.
The negs are very contrastly and so far with my scans on a Nikon 5000 there seems to be little to no midtones. Or at least very little contrast in the midtones.
Still testing...
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
maybe for your purposes you could try adding a filter to your lens, depending on subject, to reduce contrast?
MadMan2k
Well-known
Oh, I thought you meant it didn't have enough contrast, sorry.
Xmas
Veteran
Dave
Not used it myself but the spec says 80 is a minium, so I'd suggest bracket + 1/2 stop and +1 stop, dont try the minium.
If you adopt the recommended compensation or more extreme water bath or 2 bath that will pull out a little more shadow detail in theory, it seems to fail with me - with Pan F which is less extreme.
It is a microfilm (or a microfilm style of film) and needs the compensation or ... to behave more normally, and pull out the shadows.
Noel
Not used it myself but the spec says 80 is a minium, so I'd suggest bracket + 1/2 stop and +1 stop, dont try the minium.
If you adopt the recommended compensation or more extreme water bath or 2 bath that will pull out a little more shadow detail in theory, it seems to fail with me - with Pan F which is less extreme.
It is a microfilm (or a microfilm style of film) and needs the compensation or ... to behave more normally, and pull out the shadows.
Noel
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
Generally I'm none too excited about this film. I think that this is my first and last shot at it.
I posted one picture for this week's PAW image which I think works well with a lot of contrast -- but for general use, I don't think its an option for me.
I posted one picture for this week's PAW image which I think works well with a lot of contrast -- but for general use, I don't think its an option for me.
MMc
Member
I had similar results. I exposed and developed two rolls of this following the directions to the T and my results were not good.
waterpump
Newbie
Heres a link to an image on 35mm Police Bluefire developed in FX1 (rated 50ASA)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47802401@N00/3273933666/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47802401@N00/3273933666/
Fotohuis
Well-known
Police blue fire is a micro film. It works like CMS20 (Agfa) or Kodak micro film. Standard iso rate 10-25 iso maximum. The rest is a real push development in a low contrast document developer.
The former Kodak Technical Pan could be developed on iso 20-32. Rollei also made a new Advanced Technical Pan film ATP1.1 with a regular iso rate of 20 in almost every regular low contrast document developer (Technidol, Caffenol, or Rollei Low Contrast, RLC ) and iso 32-40 in the (special) Rollei ATP-DC (made by SPUR) developer.
Here an 35mm example of the ATP1.1 film.
A very small part of the 24x36mm negative.
ATP1.1 is also available on 120 roll film.
Best regards,
Robert
The former Kodak Technical Pan could be developed on iso 20-32. Rollei also made a new Advanced Technical Pan film ATP1.1 with a regular iso rate of 20 in almost every regular low contrast document developer (Technidol, Caffenol, or Rollei Low Contrast, RLC ) and iso 32-40 in the (special) Rollei ATP-DC (made by SPUR) developer.
Here an 35mm example of the ATP1.1 film.
A very small part of the 24x36mm negative.
ATP1.1 is also available on 120 roll film.
Best regards,
Robert
scottyb70
Well-known
Can you use tmax or hc-110 with that film. I was reading the stats and it seems harder to develop than regular b&w film. It states you have to use a machine. I only developed 3 rolls of film so far so would this be difficult? Is it supposed to be a super sharp film, I like the sharpness.
waterpump
Newbie
TMax or HC110 are too contrasty for this film.
Bluefire Film is unusual in that it is inherently high contrast ultra thin 'document microfilm' type of emulsion and optimized to give enhanced edge sharpness. Its a bit like lith film, but not quite. In short a unique film with unique imaging properties.
It will give high definition continuous tone pictorial images with soft working developers. The grain size is always very fine, but will depend on the developer type used. Most of these developers are best made up from scratch. POTA is often cited, I have had very good results with FX1 a low concentration metol / sodium carbonate / sodium sulphite formulation. Expose around 50 ASA with +1 stop for more contrasty subjects. Develop 10 mins at 70deg F, 20 deg C, with intermittent agitation, first 30 secs, then 5 sec every 2 mins to give greatest compensation.
You will have to do a test film, one image on all 36 / 24 exposures, cut into strips out of the film casette in the darkroom, and process 3 or 4 frames at a time to determine the best development time for your camera / lens combination. You may need to develop for more or less than 10 minutes. Scan or darkroom print according to your taste.
there are a couple of images I have created from Bluefire film by this method here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47802401@N00/
Bluefire Film is unusual in that it is inherently high contrast ultra thin 'document microfilm' type of emulsion and optimized to give enhanced edge sharpness. Its a bit like lith film, but not quite. In short a unique film with unique imaging properties.
It will give high definition continuous tone pictorial images with soft working developers. The grain size is always very fine, but will depend on the developer type used. Most of these developers are best made up from scratch. POTA is often cited, I have had very good results with FX1 a low concentration metol / sodium carbonate / sodium sulphite formulation. Expose around 50 ASA with +1 stop for more contrasty subjects. Develop 10 mins at 70deg F, 20 deg C, with intermittent agitation, first 30 secs, then 5 sec every 2 mins to give greatest compensation.
You will have to do a test film, one image on all 36 / 24 exposures, cut into strips out of the film casette in the darkroom, and process 3 or 4 frames at a time to determine the best development time for your camera / lens combination. You may need to develop for more or less than 10 minutes. Scan or darkroom print according to your taste.
there are a couple of images I have created from Bluefire film by this method here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47802401@N00/
Last edited:
Fotohuis
Well-known
Tmax and HC-110 are indeed to contrastly developers.
Here more info about the Rollei ATP1.1 Advanced Technical Pan film:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/990003@N24/discuss/72157613790250484/
and some examples:
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/thumbnails.php?album=13
best regards,
Robert
Here more info about the Rollei ATP1.1 Advanced Technical Pan film:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/990003@N24/discuss/72157613790250484/
and some examples:
http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/thumbnails.php?album=13
best regards,
Robert
scottyb70
Well-known
Thanks for the help, but one more question.
I like using my medium format folders alot and I have a mamiya c220 that I just bought. I plan on ordering from freestyle photo so can you help me by recommending a developer and anything else I might need for this type of film. I want to develop the film with no or little grain.
My experience is 3 rolls of film developed so far. It doesn't seem that difficult to me. The only problem I am having is a good water temperature. It is cold in michigan so I would have to heat the distilled water in a microwave or try to warm the mixtures up in a tub with hot water.
I have Kodak TMAX (old), fresh hc110, kodak stop bath, Kodafix solution, photo-flo, changing bag and plastic omega developing tank.
Expose around 50 ASA with +1 stop for more contrasty subjects
When you mention this it confuses me, I never experimented on how to expose film at a certain iso. When you talk about iso 20-32, etc I am still trying to figure it out. I can learn the best by example. Lets say you say to get iso 50 do this mix this way, etc. What I am looking for is super sharp film to use with my agfa and zeiss folders.
Film I have tried. Ilfold FP4 plus 125 (in my mamiya right now) Ilford xp2 super and kodak tmax 400 professional.
I like using my medium format folders alot and I have a mamiya c220 that I just bought. I plan on ordering from freestyle photo so can you help me by recommending a developer and anything else I might need for this type of film. I want to develop the film with no or little grain.
My experience is 3 rolls of film developed so far. It doesn't seem that difficult to me. The only problem I am having is a good water temperature. It is cold in michigan so I would have to heat the distilled water in a microwave or try to warm the mixtures up in a tub with hot water.
I have Kodak TMAX (old), fresh hc110, kodak stop bath, Kodafix solution, photo-flo, changing bag and plastic omega developing tank.
Expose around 50 ASA with +1 stop for more contrasty subjects
When you mention this it confuses me, I never experimented on how to expose film at a certain iso. When you talk about iso 20-32, etc I am still trying to figure it out. I can learn the best by example. Lets say you say to get iso 50 do this mix this way, etc. What I am looking for is super sharp film to use with my agfa and zeiss folders.
Film I have tried. Ilfold FP4 plus 125 (in my mamiya right now) Ilford xp2 super and kodak tmax 400 professional.
Fotohuis
Well-known
Low contrast document developers are very sensitive for metal ions, therefore you MUST use R.O. (Reverse Osmose) or Demi-water. If not you will have black dots in the negative which you can only wash out with Hydrochloric Acid (HCl (37%) ) and will damage your film layer.
The Rollei ATP-DC is especially designed by SPUR (Heribert Schain) for Rollei/Maco to get an Exposure Index (E.I. = iso rate) of 32-40. With all commercial regular document developers (Uddo Rafay) R.L.C. or Technidol or Caffenol and Diafine (3+3 minutes) you will have an iso rate of 20-32. Diafine will just on the iso 32.
Rodinal (Para-Amino Phenol) in a very high dilution 1+150 (the minimum concentrate must be 5,5ml - 6ml ==> plastic syringe from the pharmacy) pro 135-36 or 120 roll film (same area). In Rodinal iso 15.
The alternative is a micro film CMS20 (from Agfa-Gevaert, Mortsel) also sold by ADOX or the Kodak Imagelink with the special SPUR micro film developer. These films are iso 10-20.
Zeiss and Leica lenses are about 300 ln/mm resolution in the middle. Above films are going up to 400 ln/mm depending on the light contrast situation, let's say around 10:1. For the micro films it's already too much but the Advanced Technical Pan film from Rollei (also made by Gevaert in Belgium) it's possible.
Further with the standard low contrast document developer you can go till iso 25. With the ATP-DC developer iso 40 is possible however the log D curve fitting is more optimum on an E.I. of 32. With a Leica RF camera this is not a problem to use in regular photography. 1/15S or 1/30S is possible without blurr and trained photographers can even use longer shutter times.
Here some more info about the ATP1.1 Tech Pan film:
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/ATP-V1.pdf
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Development_Rollei films.pdf
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Rollei ATP_englisch_mail.pdf
Use a minimum of wetting agent in the last step, othrwise you will have stripes.
Best regards,
Robert (from the Bernhoven hospital in Oss)
The Rollei ATP-DC is especially designed by SPUR (Heribert Schain) for Rollei/Maco to get an Exposure Index (E.I. = iso rate) of 32-40. With all commercial regular document developers (Uddo Rafay) R.L.C. or Technidol or Caffenol and Diafine (3+3 minutes) you will have an iso rate of 20-32. Diafine will just on the iso 32.
Rodinal (Para-Amino Phenol) in a very high dilution 1+150 (the minimum concentrate must be 5,5ml - 6ml ==> plastic syringe from the pharmacy) pro 135-36 or 120 roll film (same area). In Rodinal iso 15.
The alternative is a micro film CMS20 (from Agfa-Gevaert, Mortsel) also sold by ADOX or the Kodak Imagelink with the special SPUR micro film developer. These films are iso 10-20.
Zeiss and Leica lenses are about 300 ln/mm resolution in the middle. Above films are going up to 400 ln/mm depending on the light contrast situation, let's say around 10:1. For the micro films it's already too much but the Advanced Technical Pan film from Rollei (also made by Gevaert in Belgium) it's possible.
Further with the standard low contrast document developer you can go till iso 25. With the ATP-DC developer iso 40 is possible however the log D curve fitting is more optimum on an E.I. of 32. With a Leica RF camera this is not a problem to use in regular photography. 1/15S or 1/30S is possible without blurr and trained photographers can even use longer shutter times.
Here some more info about the ATP1.1 Tech Pan film:
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/ATP-V1.pdf
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Development_Rollei films.pdf
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Rollei ATP_englisch_mail.pdf
Use a minimum of wetting agent in the last step, othrwise you will have stripes.
Best regards,
Robert (from the Bernhoven hospital in Oss)
scottyb70
Well-known
Thanks for the references, I am going to give this a try.
Processed in ROLLEI Low Contrast (RLC), 1+4, 6 minutes, with 20°C. Tip intervas: first 30 sec. permane nt, than all 30 sec. 5 times
Does this mean 1 part Rollei Low to 4 parts water (i can get distilled water) I agitiate for the first 30 secs and then after every 30secs I agitate for 5 times?
Processed in ROLLEI Low Contrast (RLC), 1+4, 6 minutes, with 20°C. Tip intervas: first 30 sec. permane nt, than all 30 sec. 5 times
Does this mean 1 part Rollei Low to 4 parts water (i can get distilled water) I agitiate for the first 30 secs and then after every 30secs I agitate for 5 times?
Fotohuis
Well-known
I had the best preformance on an iso rate of 20-25 with the RLC in a 1+5 dilution: 6:30 Min. First 30S continuous then every 30S 2x agitation.
When going over an iso rate of 25 you need the ATP-DC developer. Iso 25-32 is the optimum. See also this reference from Erwin Puts:
http://www.imx.nl/photo/Film/Film/page31.html
and:
http://www.imx.nl/photo/Film/Film/page7.html
The low contrast developer from Moersch (ATP flaTTec) on a lower iso rate (E.I. 20) is also recommended. Very fine grain and a remarkable sharpness.
I whish you the best results with this nice Advanced Technical Pan film (ATP) from the Rollei/Maco company in Germany.
best regards,
Robert
Rollei ATP1.1 in the ATP-DC developer: E.I. =25
6:00 min. 1+11,5
Leica M7 + Summarit 2,5/75mm
Miss Elvira H. from Kazhachstan.
When going over an iso rate of 25 you need the ATP-DC developer. Iso 25-32 is the optimum. See also this reference from Erwin Puts:
http://www.imx.nl/photo/Film/Film/page31.html
and:
http://www.imx.nl/photo/Film/Film/page7.html
The low contrast developer from Moersch (ATP flaTTec) on a lower iso rate (E.I. 20) is also recommended. Very fine grain and a remarkable sharpness.
I whish you the best results with this nice Advanced Technical Pan film (ATP) from the Rollei/Maco company in Germany.
best regards,
Robert
Rollei ATP1.1 in the ATP-DC developer: E.I. =25
6:00 min. 1+11,5
Leica M7 + Summarit 2,5/75mm
Miss Elvira H. from Kazhachstan.
johnvarenda
Newbie
Its a nice posting and very interesting to read because you have given best performance.....
Thanks....
.................
http://www.e-datapro.net/
Thanks....
.................
http://www.e-datapro.net/
ki_
Member
It's a bit late, but I hope you are fine now and out of hospital.
Thank you for this brilliant explanation of the suiting developers/films/EIs etc.
Great information!
regards
Kristian
charjohncarter
Veteran
I've read posts by him on Flickr and here since that last date, and as always he is a (maybe the) complete fountain of information. I would like to go to his place of business if I end up in Holland some day. All aside, I assume he is fine.