ptpdprinter
Veteran
I'm not holding my breath. Stand alone cameras are increasing marketed to and bought by enthusiasts who demand the customization offered by menu options. Most people are perfectly happy with the image quality of their iPhones. The whole segment of non-menu point and shoot digital cameras has disappeared.
I can understand this if you are comparing it to a Leica, but really... I use the shutter speed dial, the aperture ring, and go into the menu to format. If your brain can ignore the complication in many of these cameras, they really are simple.
Because they are more complicated computers compared to film P&S cameras.
shawn
Veteran
No need to go into the menu. Press and hold the delete button for 3 seconds then press the rear command dial.
Shawn
Richard G
Veteran
You are right that too many DSLR-like options enlarges the table of offerings and makes more obscure the gold that’s necessary, increasing the chance that the new user may never find them, or never get comfortable and confident to actually use the camera.
The simplicity of the original X100 is, however, an illusion. It’s complicated. I don’t think I would have got to like it and succeed with it if it weren’t for the collective wisdom here on RFF, discussing the optimal set-up. My only previous digital in 2011 was the Nikon Coolpix 4500. I think the DSLR users were my teachers.
For simplicity I had the Olympus Mju 2 which I gave my wife. Would we have all the kids photos from the 1990s if that had been the X100 instead? Not so sure.
Simplicity is the M2, or the M7.
The Hasselblad automatically prevents errors, but it is a slap on the wrist camera - take out the dark slide if you want to press the shutter; put it back in if you want to change backs; you now lose a frame because you didn’t have the back and the body in sync.
The best interface, an enabling interface, was the Konica Hexar AF. Choose f2 on the aperture dial and in bright sun ‘16’ appears in the LCD and you get the shot. The 16 is shorthand for “go ahead and take the shot but just to let you know we stopped down to f16 as this is ISO 400 and the maximum shutter speed is 1/250s. Sorry about the bokeh. Have a nice day.” It is so clever the Hexar. There are no slaps or stern warnings or interruptions. There’s so little you need to know and the camera covers for your blunders. Those Konica engineers were truly thoughtful and insightful about the use of the camera.
The simplicity of the original X100 is, however, an illusion. It’s complicated. I don’t think I would have got to like it and succeed with it if it weren’t for the collective wisdom here on RFF, discussing the optimal set-up. My only previous digital in 2011 was the Nikon Coolpix 4500. I think the DSLR users were my teachers.
For simplicity I had the Olympus Mju 2 which I gave my wife. Would we have all the kids photos from the 1990s if that had been the X100 instead? Not so sure.
Simplicity is the M2, or the M7.
The Hasselblad automatically prevents errors, but it is a slap on the wrist camera - take out the dark slide if you want to press the shutter; put it back in if you want to change backs; you now lose a frame because you didn’t have the back and the body in sync.
The best interface, an enabling interface, was the Konica Hexar AF. Choose f2 on the aperture dial and in bright sun ‘16’ appears in the LCD and you get the shot. The 16 is shorthand for “go ahead and take the shot but just to let you know we stopped down to f16 as this is ISO 400 and the maximum shutter speed is 1/250s. Sorry about the bokeh. Have a nice day.” It is so clever the Hexar. There are no slaps or stern warnings or interruptions. There’s so little you need to know and the camera covers for your blunders. Those Konica engineers were truly thoughtful and insightful about the use of the camera.
JoeLopez
Well-known
Same here. I bought a X100 this past Spring and upgraded to the X100T in late summer. Download the PDF user manual, so much easier to find information than the tree killing paper version.
It is a very easy camera to use and the compact size makes it the perfect daily carry camera for me personally.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
And with the Instamatic, you didn't have to set anything. Get over it. Quality always requires some effort. Spend a half an hour going though your menu settings and setting up your camera when you first get it, and the forget about the options. Honestly, all the handwringing is unbelievable.
willie_901
Veteran
You are not alone. The increase in features and options have not been matched by investmenting in a more intuitive user interface. I also think marketing people insist on more is better. I wonder what percentage of customers who would consider a X100F disagree?
Some of the complexity (mainly optimizing the AF for different situations) is a direct response to complaints about AF performance. Some off the complexity involves FUJIFILMs philosophy highlighting FUJIFILM film simulations. Many of the convenience features assume people will only use in-camera JPEGs. This is likely to be a valid assumption.
Sorry, that that's not 100% on FUJIFILM. You have to invest some time to learn a new user environment. If she had any new digital camera in the same price range as the X100F that did not use the Canon menus system and operation philosophy, would she have had a very different experience? Perhaps. As myself and other pointed out the EVF/OVF, relatively small an closely space controls increase the challenge.
Would she have spent $6K on a Leica M-D body to avoid figuring out how to use a new menu system and operational environment?
The FUJIFILM manuals are mediocre. Sections become obsolete after significant firmware updates. Updates always include access to manual update PDFs. Many people aren't aware of this. However the FUJIFILM on-line AF guide linked above is a step in the right direction.
Range-rover
Veteran
That's the state of affairs with the new digital cameras; they keep loading them
down with features that I and most people don't need or use (I mean do we really
use every feature in a DC). Look, I just purchased a Canon 5D; why, because it a
full frame, it does have less features, and it's a great build little camera. I still
use my Fuji xpro1 which I love but I just tone down the features I don't use. I
guess what I'm saying is that we have to learn to use these new wonder cameras.
down with features that I and most people don't need or use (I mean do we really
use every feature in a DC). Look, I just purchased a Canon 5D; why, because it a
full frame, it does have less features, and it's a great build little camera. I still
use my Fuji xpro1 which I love but I just tone down the features I don't use. I
guess what I'm saying is that we have to learn to use these new wonder cameras.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Not only with Instamatic. I have Lumix dP&S, don't need to set anything.
My wife FujiFilm dP&S is the same. Full auto, only shutter button release is in use.
Problems might occurs in two cases.
Case one. The "Canon Digital Rebel" case. In this case full auto didn't worked for my wife and me. Canon didn't implemented AF right in full auto mode, in our digital Rebel it throws focus points somewhere. Film Rebel didn't have this problem and was in use only in full auto by us.
If X100 series doesn't have this kind of firmware in auto mode problems, then it shouldn't be a problem to set it all in full auto and use it.
Then case two comes. David Hughes's case. Then camera is taken from pocket (bad practice
) and somehow menus are activated or it is already switched somewhere. But it is the case in question. If camera is tossed into and from the pocket while it is still on, I wouldn't blame on camera. squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Agree, just take an hour to set it up the way you like and never look at the menus again
This is true as well, but I'm old school Fuji. Just muscle memory now to do it the old way.
shawn
Veteran
Then case two comes. David Hughes's case. Then camera is taken from pocket (bad practice
No, but the camera also has ways of dealing with that. Once you get it setup the way you like save the settings into one of the Custom settings (say C1) memories. If you, or your pocket, screws up the settings you just switch to C1 and it is all back the way it was.
Shawn
BillBingham2
Registered User
Yes, but if it's not your camera you might loose a friend........
I'm pretty sure Keith has spent a bit of time with his digital cameras, but my guess is that he doesn't have any Fuji X series on his shelves.
Rather like going from Mac to Windows to Linux, just takes some time, something more precious than film.
B2 (;->
cz23
-
YOU may not need all of them, but there is likely a significant set of users who values every feature. Should Fuji remove them because you or I don't use them?
Software is the same way. Should Microsoft remove keyboard shortcuts from Word, for example, because most people don't use them? The few who do take the time to master them couldn't do without.
I think it's wonderful that we have so many options and the custom functions to store them. Those who invest the time usually find something that enhances their experience.
John
Beemermark
Veteran
There is such a camera, the Leica M digital series. I have an X-Pro2 (and two previous models), a Nikon D750 and an M9. Unless I need a special feature of the Fuji or Nikon, I shoot the M9. I mistakenly grabbed the Fuji for a Christmas party last month. I was never so frustrated in my life.
zuiko85
Veteran
One would think that as for settings such as ISO, WB, etc, there would be a slide switch, with a strong enough detent, that would lock your settings until you decide to change them.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
If a Fuji menu left you the most frustrated you have ever been in your life, you must have lived a very charmed life. Seriously, what menu settings did you have to change for a Christmas party?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Thanks for all the input and opinions, suggestions etc ... I've actually sent my friend a link to this thread. Hopefully you/we aren't confusing her too much.
Maybe she could consider joining RFF because I think these types of threads are quite valuable when you jump to a different digital platform.
Maybe she could consider joining RFF because I think these types of threads are quite valuable when you jump to a different digital platform.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
That's a good point and you're right. When I got my used D4 a year or so ago being my third Nikon DSLR I barely needed to look at the manual to be able to set it up the way I wanted but when I picked this X100F up confusion set in immediately!
As for my Sigmas ... well they just don't give you many choices.